Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted December 8, 2014 Author Share Posted December 8, 2014 Aft'noon all, One of the other wagon tasks being undertaken at the moment is the retro-ing of a few examples that were originally used in 1977 guise. The hopper seen in the clip below is a heavily modified 51L/Wizard resin/etched brass/whitemetal kit, originally modelled in roadstone traffic from Penmaenmawr to Hope St, Manchester. It is now being readied for a new life in a late 1960s traffic flow on TG. These models are fragile and already have 50 hours modelling time invested in each, therefore any conversion work required would have to be very delicately done. A ply support case lined with high density foam seemed appropriate, so the first job this morning was to call at our excellent local timber merchant in town. He happily cut a 6ft length of 1/2 inch ply into 3 1/2 & 2 inch strips ready for creating ply support cases of different sizes. Once the pieces for the small wagon case had been cut to length, had some wood glue applied along the joins and been panel pinned together, I lined it with dense foam and trimmed various other foam thicknesses to length so that wagons of different proportions could be firmly but delicately held whilst any modifications were done. A suitable widespread late 60s traffic for these hoppers, as seen in various wagon books, was carrying spent grains for agricultural use to local agricultural merchants/farmers. This meant fitting a sheet/tarpaulin over the hopper body and modelling the amateurish tying of the ends around the body supports and ladders with string. This first hopper had originally been modelled in an overloaded state with granite chippings so I took the opportunity to test the new ply support case by using it whilst trimming the above body parts of the load off with a disc cutter. The 35 MPH max speed restriction transfers were then scraped off with a sharp scalpel, as this restriction didn't apply in 1967. Next a visit to the local fishing store in town yielded some very fine line in various thicknesses to replicate the string used to tie the sheet to the hopper. Newspaper was then sliced into thin strips and doped with 'Titebond' wood glue before being draped over the hopper body. Once dry I'll trim the whole into a correct shape, add other 'rippled' pieces to replicate where the sheet has been pulled tight by the string and then paint/stencil it . I wasn't happy with the first attempt as the newspaper dried as 'tight as a drum' across the top of the hopper and looked wrong. The newspaper lid was consequently sliced off and I'll be revisiting the hopper with a different technique which involves more 'relaxed strips' next time. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted December 12, 2014 Author Share Posted December 12, 2014 Evenin' all, Gathering together the components for the Charles Roberts bromine tank scratchbuild continues: the 3.5 and 4mm brass 'U' channels cater for the sizes required for the main frame/solebar and headstock dimensions the brass tube is within .5mm of the required barrel diameter for the bromine tank and once cut/smoothed for fitting onto the chassis will be even closer to the dimensions needed. The barrel ends will be formed from thin sheet brass hammered/shaped over a former, then soldered to the barrel. the Bachmann TTA will provide various parts for the underframe and suspension inc. the load/weigh components. Coarse/overthick detail such as the 'W' irons will be cut away from the finer parts needed, allowing the backs to be sanded, bringing them down to scale size. The axleboxes have potential but will need several alterations to make them suitable. Various other components/linkages will have to be scratchbuilt from brass sheet/rod/wire. Scrutiny of several close up images of the prototype and comparing them with the works drawing has allowed the purpose/operation of the brake/handbrake linkages to be figured out, which makes it easier to replicate the underframe of the bromine tank. All metalwork/soldering of the principal components of the wagon will be done and test running completed before any plastic components are bonded to the model/priming painting is carried out. A Colin Craig etched laddering kit will be used to build the specially shaped ones required. Two styles of BR plate 'W' irons ordered from Eileen's. Further research into the lowfit/FW Berk demountable bromine tank combination suggests that the appropriate Rumney LNER style etched underframe will be available September-ish next year. A Parkside body/deck will be added onto which a scratchbuilt tank and fittings will be secured. A couple of conflat underframes from Rumney will still be required for the Holman compressor traffic though. Enquiries about the FW Berk tanks led to an entertaining call from a local historian who lived near to one of their factories. The pollution/damage to surrounding flora and offence to neighbours was well known. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted December 13, 2014 Author Share Posted December 13, 2014 Aft'noon all, Following on from the revision/corrections to the TG scenic section trackplan kindly carried out by John Palmer on Templot Club, it was time to print off a set of templates for the double junction/twin bridges area and check how far the two bridge decks needed to be adjusted to cater for the alterations in alignment. The pictures below tell some of the story: The Barnstaple end of the Barnstaple line bridge deck can be seen to the right of the end of the template. The templates are aligned to the curving bridge deck below. The Plymouth end of the Plymouth route bridge deck can be seen to the right of the end of the template. Again, the templates are aligned to suit the curving bridge deck below. Originally the 'X' of the nearest diamond crossing had been adjacent to the frame joint between the bridges and station frame joints...it is now 6 inches inboard of the frame joint towards the station and the frame joint is now just clear of the point ends approaching from the Plymouth route towards that diamond. A fortunate situation but one which will have consequences for the adjacent frame length (2nd station frame), when it is constructed. Had it have been a 6 inch shift in the opposite direction then the twin bridge decks would no longer have been wide enough and extra sections would have had to be fitted adjacent to the double junction. I would also be likely to have had P&C across the frame joints. Revisions required to the cork track bases at the double junction can be seen here and to those for the goods run round loop towards the bottom of the picture. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted December 15, 2014 Author Share Posted December 15, 2014 Mornin' all, Work continues to match the new alignments to the existing bridge decks. Both are usable, although the revised technique of drilling the frame sheets/bridge deck surfaces then fitting ento pins/silicon tubing to retain the track in position means that the stainless steel rods under the Plymouth route bridge deck are having to be replaced with aluminium angles similar to the Barnstaple bridge deck, this will allow the drilling to be done more easily. Once both bridge decks are secured and the Templot alignments are the best that they can be then the cork track bases will be tackled. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted December 15, 2014 Share Posted December 15, 2014 Dave are you still using Evo Stik 528 contact adhesive to glue things to aluminium? I need to glue plastikard and plastruct to an aluminium deck. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted December 16, 2014 Author Share Posted December 16, 2014 Mornin' P, I'm using 528 to bond cork to aluminium and two years since I first tried it there is no sign of any ill effects/all seems ok. With plastic I would read what it says on the tin and bond a test piece first....there are so many different plastics that some will probably be ok and others not. What won't help is that plastics become brittle over time. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 Hello Dave, I've been gradually catching up with your work over the past few weeks and it's really great to see how thorough you're being, also my thanks are due to you for helping to get the P4 wheels sorted at Exactoscale for the Dapol "Western", not that I've fitted any of mine yet! Merry Christmas and a happy 2015, John E. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted December 22, 2014 Author Share Posted December 22, 2014 Hi John, .....no worries....and there would be more being done but I'm currently assisting friends/contacts with research, in payment for their sharing images/information important for TG. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year to you too. Dave P.S. Ultrascale was the company supplying the wheelsets. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted December 22, 2014 Share Posted December 22, 2014 P.S. Ultrascale was the company supplying the wheelsets. Thanks Dave, Oops! Silly me, I always get those two mixed up!!! D'oh! John. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 Evenin all, Current progress includes the removal of the stainless steel rod strengthening from the Plymouth route bridge deck, slicing of the aluminium angle replacements, securing of same to the deck and filing of the underside to ensure that the imperfections of the angle grinder work are removed. Both decks will then be checked throughout for maximum thicknesses, to see that both are within limits.....with approx 5ft lengths involved with both, the filing takes time. Once they are finished then both will be secured to their respective frames and levelled in all planes. Latest stock arrival are two Bachmann cement Presflos intended for conversion to slate powder use ex Delabole. These ex salt covered hoppers appeared around 1964 in the slate dust traffic and ran mainly to Tonbridge. Modifications to the RTR examples will include: removal of one vacuum cylinder to replicate the earlier version of Presflo; modification of pipework to replicate that required for the twin compartments within the hopper body; modification of the bottom discharge equipment from single to twin; replacement of W irons and brakegear, handrails & ladders with etched versions; repainting in ICI blue/green and weathering with slate grey tones. Thank you to Brian at Shawplan for the exquisite mesh samples received for use as Associated Octel tank wagon walkways. Also, thank you to Andy, Trevor and David for rare information and images for the slate presflos along with a likely source of 4mm decals....once again I can't publish the images but will advise which details came from them. The filing of the underside of both bridge decks has now finished and both are currently being fettled for, hopefully, their permanent fixing to each baseframe. The slight change of alignment through the double junction means that a few mods to the embankments around the station end of the bridges will have to be done. Whilst the Presflo slate hoppers will be a moulded plastic, etched brass/nickel silver mix I'm looking forward to the 3 variant Associated Octel tank wagon scratchbuild in brass/nickel silver. A jewellers metal working kit is the latest modelling aid ordered. http://redroosteruk.com/dapping-doming-tools It'll take a little practice but forming the barrel ends/dome covers from thin sheet brass and soldering them into place will create highly individual models. A decent crown faced light hammer is also important http://sykes-pickavant.com/downloads/Body%20Repair%20Tools%20-%20Draft%2019-12.pdf this site offered the ideal version. Current progress with the layout involves repositioning the Plymouth bridge supports for the second time. This is made trickier by having to cut away yet more aluminium from the baseframe....this leaves less to secure the uprights to in their new position. I've used single machine screw fastening temporarily at the station end of the bridge deck to allow slight adjustment at the track building stage...just in case. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted January 30, 2015 Author Share Posted January 30, 2015 Aft'noon all, Current work on TG has included the production of the four main struts for the Plymouth route bridge deck. M10 studding has been used and this has been drilled at a clearance 3mm dia. for 20mm along the centre, a 5mm dia. hole has then been drilled across at 90 degrees to provide location and anchor for a 2mm dia. machine screw and associated Nylok nut.....see This view shows the strut in position below the deck with the brass caisson assembly, through which the studding will pass, adjacent. A clearance hole for a hexagonal drive 2mm machine screw will be drilled through the 'L' section aluminium at the edge of the deck to locate and secure into the studding. Brasswork for the bowstring superstructure will then fit over the aluminium of the deck sides This view gives an idea of how far the studding will protrude from the caisson tube M11 clearance holes have been drilled through the river surface/baseframe deck ready for the securing brackets to be attached, these will maintain the studding in a vertical and initially adjustable orientation. Once the deck is correctly levelled then a lock nut will be tightened to prevent further movement of the studding One of the brackets is clamped in postion ready for drilling/machine screwing in place. The machine screws are located in slots so that the bracket can be lengthened as required and securely clamped to each longitudinal without distorting them Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share Posted February 4, 2015 Mornin' all, Work progresses with fitting the four Plymouth bridge supports The 2mm dia. machine screws with 30mm of thread appear ideal for the task of securing the deck to the studding. The n/s strips prevent the Nylok nut rotating whilst the screw is tightened All four supports are now in place for test fitting with brackets secured to the base frame Each bracket is unique for its position Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 6, 2015 Author Share Posted February 6, 2015 Mornin' all, Current work on TG is focussing on the caisson top components for the Plymouth route bridge. The similarly constructed Little Petherick creek bridge uses an open square of cast iron angle immediately atop each round caisson but the Tavy bridge has additional ornamental rectangular sections which sit on the top of each caisson. I'm opting to use 2mm aluminium sheet in 45mm squares to replicate the immediate caisson top/cap and these will form the base for the ornamental uprights as well providing a locating hole for the 2mm dia. deck fixing machine screws which will secure the deck to the studding uprights. I'm now able to level the deck along its 5ft length and get an accurate idea of the max height of the round caisson assembly.....allowing for a 1mm washer of PTFE which will cushion the polycarbonate river surface from the brass caisson tubes and allow me to cut the bottom off the caisson assembly to bring it to its required height. With the spirit level in place the studding can be adjusted through the nuts beneath the baseframe to bring each studding top/45mm sq. plate to its desired height relative to the surface of the river/baseframe top. The deck side is around 4mm thick. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted February 21, 2015 Author Share Posted February 21, 2015 Aft'noon all, Similar work with TG just now to that covered in the new MRJ 237....ensuring square baseframe joints and avoiding unnecessary gaps. Additionally, the deck of the Plymouth route bridge will feature the corrugated, strength giving surface of the prototype, topped with longitudinal square beams on which the chairs and rail fixings sit, therefore, the vertical positioning of the deck relative to the adjacent baseframe is critical. Various options are available for representing the corrugations but I'm favouring laser cut ply strips from York Model Supplies just now....they have also supplied the longitudinal beams. Evo-Stik will be used to bond the corrugations to the aluminium deck. The timbers will only extend as far as the masonry arch at each end of the bridge once fitted. Ballasted trackwork will then meet the next baseframe at the joint seen in the images below. Latest arrival is a large fan for mounting on the side of one of the folding workbenches when soldering or painting is being undertaken. The conservatory door is left open and the fan blows all fumes straight outside to avoid working in the fume of either task. The handy aspect of the flat part of the fan supports/base is that the clamp which holds the folding workbench support in place can also clamp the fan base to the bench and ensure that the fan isn't accidentally knocked off and onto the floor.....without the need for extra clamps etc which would impinge on working space with a small folding workbench such as this http://www.vent-axia.com/range/14-box-fan.html Recent arrival from York Model Supplies are 300 laser cut timbers for use as the corrugations on the two bridge decks. Once both decks are rigid and levelled and the levelling sledge has been used to sand the timber tops flat/level then a jig/tool will be made for imparting convex curves to the upper edges of each side of each timber in situ. This view gives an idea of the various cross members, longitudinals and their relative sizes/dimensions to one another. The model bridge will have a crossover on the centre bowstring section...therefore the two central longitudinals and the largest cross member will be reduced in height proportionally to facilitate the rails passing over the longitudinals. Also the prototype features super-elevated trackwork on the bridge but for reasons of the crossover and sanity I'm constructing all track absolutely flat level Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 16, 2015 Author Share Posted March 16, 2015 Aft'noon all, Current work with the layout has involved several adjustments to the height of the Plymouth bridge deck above its base frame in order to ensure that realistic beams and corrugations can be secured to the aluminium deck beneath the rails. Once the level was correct with the station end of the bridge secured, a definitive height for the caissons could be measured and the first caisson assembly cut to the correct height. In order to maintain an all aluminium construction various thickness of angle and flat have been sliced and filed ready for drilling. These pieces will be used to achieve the levels that the spirit level dictates Masking tape was used to mark the required caisson height around the circumference ready for slicing with the disc cutter The poor mans fume cupboard...large fan blowing all soldering or paint fume straight out of the open conservatory door works perfectly....I didn't smell any fume at all. Soldering lessons being re-learnt.....the large cheap & nasty iron from the local ironmongers with the tip which will never tin...only burn, is destined for the bin. The temp controlled Antex with several irons and a range of tips is doing the job.....the largest tip coping well with soldering jobs on the brass caisson assembly, even if it is behaving like a large heatsink. A revised technique for creating the lattice on the lowest sections of the first caisson assembly is currently awaiting a stainless steel section for spacing the 'X' elements. Current stock on order includes a Bachmann class 43, a Hornby Black Motor and a CSP etched brass GWR 1366 tank engine of the type which superseded the Beattie well tank....delayed due to etching issues. A bespoke set of decals for the 3 variant Octel tank scratchbuild is also imminent. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 24, 2015 Author Share Posted March 24, 2015 Aft'noon all, The advantages of revisiting an old task include fresh ideas/approaches building on the knowledge and experience gained from earlier attempts. The jig for the latest latticework needed to complete the first caisson assembly is simply a 250mm length of 5mm thick (the required gap between the 1mm 'L' section diagonals) stainless steel flat bar sourced from http://www.metals4u.co.uk/stainless-steel/products.asp?cat_id=8&gclid=CPud8dfFwcQCFSrMtAodXk0APw with 2 slots sliced into it.....the slot sides regulating the overall width of the lattice assembly. The required dimensions for the new lattice were taken from those forming the upper part of the caisson assembly, measured with the vernier caliper and marked on the end of the stainless steel with a fine 1mm tip permanent marker . The angle grinder with the fine slitting disc was then used to create the slots in the end of the stainless (with a tad of finish filing).....this produces a hard wearing and accurate (providing that care is taken with the slicing) jig......difficult to accidentially solder to with a small/fine tip on the soldering iron and which resists the attempts of the flux to oxidise it (the failing of the previous and aluminium jig). If the jig becomes worn then the old one will be sliced off the stock length and a new one cut into fresh metal The thin ply strips prevent the vice acting as a heatsink, negating the heat of the fine soldering iron tip. The undersides of the longitudinals are 'tinned' to ensure that the 1mm 'L' section diagonals solder readily to them. Wire spacers temporarily hold the two longitudinals at the correct spacing for fitting the diagonals. Enough have to be used to prevent the heat of soldering deforming the 2mm 'L' section during the work....thus making the end result inaccurate A quick check with the caliper ensures that the 8.25mm nominal width of the lattice is being maintained as work progresses. This section would need to pass through the diagonally opposing 2nd part of the lower support (the river surface level dictating whether it happens on the model) hence the prototypical width variations on the assemblies. Once the required double length is reached it will be sliced in half and the 2 sections dropped into the ultrasound bath for a thorough cleaning The fine tip is ideal for accessing the joint areas without getting excess solder onto surrounding surfaces/cleaning/wiping along diagonal 'L' sections The flat strip at the base of the caisson assembly will be the support for the lower lattice sections, painted and covered by the varnish water surface when in situ and will have the new lower lattice sections soldered to it Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Enterprisingwestern Posted March 25, 2015 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2015 Could you not beg borrow or steel an RSU Dave?, if ever a job was crying out for one. Mike. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Hi Mike, An RSU?....I've not come across that abbreviation before. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
cary hill Posted March 25, 2015 Share Posted March 25, 2015 RSU - Resistance Soldering Unit Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 ....thanks Cary....I'll look into any advantages that such a device might offer. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 25, 2015 Author Share Posted March 25, 2015 Evenin' all, A solid day constructing the remaining lattice beams required to complete the first caisson assembly has resulted in the two completed beams being left in the ultrasound bath undergoing cleaning, ready for trimming and fettling before they are soldered into place. The jig for the wider gauge lattice beam was sliced into the other end of the stainless steel flat bar...creating a quickly changeable double jig The metal forming kit, sourced via Red Rooster recently, contained a jewellers anvil which has been an ideal work surface for needle filing the lattice diagonals in 1mm brass 'L' section, prior to snipping into individual parts Boiling water and ultrasound detergent get to grips with the soldered work in the bath...removing a good level of crud and proving the soldered joints by vibrating any insecure components away from the assembly Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Mornin' all, I've been checking out Resistance soldering as suggested above http://resistancesoldering.com/site/ As I understand it the surfaces to be soldered would need to be 'tinned' before attaching electrodes to the workpiece and passing a current through the work to melt the solder. Two questions instantly arise....my latticework has many soldered joints per workpiece, does this mean that all solder is melted each time a piece is added? If it does then the structural integrity of the section/critical dimensions would be 'at risk' many times during the construction of each length. Also, the bulk of my time is spent producing the components for soldering e.g. the diagonal 'L' sections, with actual soldering time minimal. If I still have to 'tin' each piece to be joined then where is the large time saving predicted in the link above? Using the correct iron/tip and minimal solder doesn't leave much to clean off after the ultrasound bath has done its work. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bigbee Line Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 What will the ultrasound bath do with a plastic model? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Mornin' Ernie, What would you be hoping to achieve by immersing a plastic model into the bath? I would have thought that plastic was best cleaned in a number of other ways. The vibration and usual heat in these devices wouldn't benefit it esp. delicate areas and would be likely to cause damage....in my opinion. Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jol Wilkinson Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Dave, only the part being added needs to be tinned or you can use solder paint/paste on it. The heat generated by the current flow is localised so, unless you get it badly wrong, nothing else is affected. Resistance soldering would seem to be ideal for the kind of work you are doing. If you attend a show where the technique is being demonstrated then you will find your questions can be readily answered The link you gave refers to the American Beauty site. Here is one for a well established UK product; http://traders.scalefour.org/LondonRoadModels/various/soldering-materials-and-tools/ These are the instructions supplied with the LRM RSU. RSU Instructions 2013.pdf I hope this helps, Jol edited for spelling. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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