gormo Posted July 7, 2012 Author Share Posted July 7, 2012 Evenin` All, Time for an update.......!!! Things are going well with the lever, however not much has happened over the last couple of weeks, as I have been away interstate..........So..??????......I have had in the back of my mind, for some time now, the fact that the current configuration of point lever, and more importantly, the plane that the choc block inner sits in, in relation to the lever, makes it difficult for assembly of the lever frame. Most important though is maintenance. The problem is that if I need to adjust the choc block ,at the lever, whilst it is in it`s place in the frame, I can`t do it without having a right angled screw driver or......taking the frame apart. The solution was arrived at yesterday. A solution which allows re-positioning of the choc block........in effect rotating it 90 degrees which allows access to the adjusting screw whilst the lever is in the frame. It will also allow easier assembly. The answer is a cable clip........slightly modified........which becomes the mounting point and pivot point on the lever, for the choc block. It`s a simple and elegant solution........however I will have to re-position the mounting hole in the lever to achieve clearances etc.. The first pic shows the modification required of the clip.....a 3mm hole for the choc block screw and trimming the pin that secures the clip.......that`s it !! More to follow.....................................................................................Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 Hello All I am on the right track with the above, but I was having issues with the choc block inner being upside down, for adjustment purposes. In practice it was difficult to access. Fortunately a solution presented itself and I am still working on clearances,,,,,,,,but it works now and can be accessed from above....................I`ll post some pics when I`ve got it sorted...................Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Campaman Posted July 12, 2012 Share Posted July 12, 2012 I am following this with interest but not commenting as at this point have nothing constructive to say, but feel I need to now say that there are interested parties... :-) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted July 12, 2012 Author Share Posted July 12, 2012 I am following this with interest but not commenting as at this point have nothing constructive to say, but feel I need to now say that there are interested parties... :-) Hi Campaman Thanks for the input and I hope I can justify your interest............................Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Howdy Folks I have resolved the access problem with the lever. I needed to use some lateral thinking, which resulted in using the cable clip in a slightly different way. The clip is in effect a cradle for the choc block inner. The clip requires minor modification in the form of trimming some plastic off to allow the choc block inner screws to fit either side of the clip. The heads of the screws butt up to the clip on either side and as they are screwed downwards they bed into the plastic. The clip used is a 6mm clip manufactured by HPM. I tried 5mm , which is the perfect height for the choc block inner, however it does not have the depth of the 6mm version, and when I tried it...... the choc block inner pressed against the lever at an angle and created too much friction. The clip is secured with a 3mm self tapping screw and a flat washer to allow it to rotate more smoothly. It would work without the washer, but it feels better with it. In the photographs below, disregard the levers........they are simply there to prove that the cradle works and of course the screw used is way too long..........however...........the pics show the results to date. You will notice that rod is now able to be fed in from either end and adjustment can be done from above. I think it is wise to use both screws to secure either the rod or cable, because once they are screwed down they will be in relative equal positions and therefore exert equal pressure on the cable clip in forward or reverse................................................Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 Hi Gormo... good to see you're back on the case! I haven't yet given up hope of finding/coming up with a lever that's no more than 2mm thick... so it can slide nicely between the arms of the clevises that come with the Gold-N-Rods I'm using... and make linking rod and lever an absolute doddle. Seems such a shame not to try and use them... for their ease as much as the fact their screw-fit (to the inner rod) allows half an inch or so for adjustment. B****y shame aluminium can't be used at 2mm thickness!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted July 13, 2012 Author Share Posted July 13, 2012 Hi Alan I found this on ebay UK.............http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Griffiths-Steel-Supplies/_i.html?_fsub=3715891011...........it`s Aluminium Flat Bar 10mm x 2mm x 1000mm @ 4.82 GBP...........if you fancy having a crack at some levers to suit your clevis.......also found a UK supplier of Brass Flat Bar............same size but 500mm long @ 3.45 GBP.... http://www.metalsmith.co.uk/metals-materials.htm#Brass... Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted July 13, 2012 Share Posted July 13, 2012 I've just discovered this thread and I am engrossed! Thanks to all the contributions. I gave up on the idea of using Peco Point motors and Accessory Switches the other day after spending many hours over 3 nights to try to get the polarity switching on my layout. I found the switches I had to be very tempremental and I dont want that hassle on my layout. So I've decided to go with manual control, I plan on using bicycle spokes, toggle switches, choc-blocks and paper clips. The mechanism should be like this: Bike spoke bent at 45 degrees and sticking through baseboard top or edge (still to decide) - this will be the 'lever' Choc-block section connecting bike spoke and t-shaped paper clip - the upright part connected to the tie bar Toggle switch (On-On) mounted sideways to baseboard with the 'arm' between choc-block screw housing towers (being thrown when rod is pushed or pulled) - this will change the frog polarity Choc block section places at points along the length of the spoke, glue to baseboard to act as a guide and keep things level So far I've spent £15 in enough bits to build the mechanisms for my 8 points, I'll hopefully more than recover this when I sell my point motors on. I'll post pics as soon as I start assembling them! Thanks again for all the ideas! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted July 14, 2012 Author Share Posted July 14, 2012 Hi 40-something All input is welcome........I am looking forward to pics...............................Rock On !!!!.........Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyB Posted July 14, 2012 Share Posted July 14, 2012 I like the idea of a bike spoke. I have a point that is so close to the edge of the baseboard that the snakes aren't appropriate. Whereas a bike spoke.... And they have a nipple at one end to prevent brush past scratches. Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted July 16, 2012 Author Share Posted July 16, 2012 Howdy Folks, Time for an update..............the system I showed above.......specifically the cradle for the choc block ( post # 132.)....did not stand up to rough treatment. There was too much sideways pressure on the screws in the choc block and one choc block split.......back to the drawing board..?????? What resulted was a redesign and probably a bleedin` obvious solution. I have moved the pivot point for the choc block from above the 3/16" rod to below it. I have used a heavier cable clip and I have gone back to attaching the choc block inner to the cable clip by using a hole and a screw. The heavier cable clip means we need to increase clearances between levers......solved by adding extra washers. The pic below shows a single lever approx. in the shape of the final design.......it`s actually 10mm shorter........because it was made from an off cut. The next pic shows the extra washers and gives a better view of the set up A close up of the cradle A view of the screw attachment to the cradle The cradle is held by a 3mm self tapping screw with the head countersunk into the lever........the countersinking helps with clearances A close up of the washer spacing And finally the latest plan............I think this is it.........but I`ve been wrong before........but I think the laser cut man will get to see this one............fingers crossed Finally folks...........I`ve made an executive decision.......why???????.......simply because I can..........for you dedicated followers of this topic..........from now on .......I will refer to choc block inners as ........" CBI "....................................................................Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hi Folks As promised here are some rough shots of my manual point control – point shooglers as the wife calls them The first photo shows the complete mechanism. The bottom choc block connecter is glued to the baseboard to allow the bike spoke to slide whilst holding it in place and stopping it from flexing, this is a run of about 8 inches, for longer runs I’ll need to glue another choc-block in place. The top choc block connects the other end of the spoke to the paper clip which connects to the tie-bar, switching the point. Trapped between the screw terminals on this connector is the arm of an on-on toggle switch (DPDT) glued to an offcut of 6mm plywood, glued to the baseboard. All very bodged, but it works a treat! The 2nd photo shows the toggle switch/spoke interface, the toggle switch changes the polarity of the frog. 3rd is the paper clip from the connector to the tie-bar. The give in the paper clip comensates for the harsh movement of the toggle switch action, and also allows for easy adjustment. I’ve kept the springs in place in my Peco points. As you can see I havent wired the switch up yet, but thats just a matter of a few minutes soldering. So far I've done 2 of my points, another 6 to go! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted July 18, 2012 Author Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hi 40-something Thanks for the pics and explanation...............this is an effective method and I like the way you have employed the toggle switch. Does the choc block slide sideways against the switch when you throw the point and do you get enough travel in the paper clip. I would assume the closer the choc block is to the switch........the less travel at the paper clip????? Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 That's neat Joe! More food for thought. What glue are you using to stick the choc blocks to the ply?... and what kind of handle/lever are you using at the operator's end? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Hi 40-something Thanks for the pics and explanation...............this is an effective method and I like the way you have employed the toggle switch. Does the choc block slide sideways against the switch when you throw the point and do you get enough travel in the paper clip. I would assume the closer the choc block is to the switch........the less travel at the paper clip????? Cheers Gormo Hi Gormo, thanks for your commments! The choc block slides along the travel of the the switch, flicking the 'arm' of it in the process, the paper clip travels enough to throw the blades and absorb any excess travel without damaging the points. Easier to show than to describe! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 That's neat Joe! More food for thought. What glue are you using to stick the choc blocks to the ply?... and what kind of handle/lever are you using at the operator's end? Thanks Alan! Im using Zap-A-Gap superglue that I picked up in ModelZone. Its a very strong bond. I set up a test control rod and gave it a thorough testing with heavy-handed throws and nothing troubled the bond! Likewise the scrap plywood is bonded to the baseboard with Zap-A-Gap and the toggle to the scrap plywood! Im just bending up the ends of the spokes through the baseboards. I'll cut these down when I've finished the whole control area and probably put coloured caps on the exposed spoke ends. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Must get me some, as I was having to put self-tapping screws though my choc blocks in order to secure 'em to my seemingly 'far too elaborate' TOU!! You've certainly got me thinking about simplifying things, as I've more than 20 points to deal with. I did like my TOU, though!!! (Post 121) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted July 18, 2012 Share Posted July 18, 2012 Must get me some, as I was having to put self-tapping screws though my choc blocks in order to secure 'em to my seemingly 'far too elaborate' TOU!! You've certainly got me thinking about simplifying things, as I've more than 20 points to deal with. I did like my TOU, though!!! (Post 121) Your TOU is a good bit of engineering! I did think of copying your idea if mine didnt work. In total its cost me abot £15 for all the parts for 8 points, and I've found that its quite rewarding putting the bits together and making it work! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted July 19, 2012 Share Posted July 19, 2012 My first stab at a lever (for use with a snake), made from what I think is a nylonny-type of plastic that certainly feels like it can take the strain. The source was staring me in the mouth every time I flossed my teeth!! They come in packs of 30 for about £3.50 I think.... although, if you use 'em for their intended purpose first they cost nothing! A couple of bits snipped off, the pointy bit 'rounded' and a couple of holes drilled (I did 3 on the test) and they're ready. They even look like a lever!!... and the flat bit is 'moulded' for grip. Will be undergoing 'thorough testing', but, as I say, they seem to work a treat... and if they do wear out, well, they're a doddle (and cheap!) to replace. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted July 20, 2012 Author Share Posted July 20, 2012 Hi Alan Well done Sir..!!!!!!...........some times the answer is right under our noses. I agree with you about the testing............you don`t want to commit to something temporary because after a while you will be unhappy with it..............so give your lever a good hiding and see how it stands up............see what works loose and what breaks etc. Then you can comfortably make a final decision and then onwards and upwards................Happy Testing...!!!!! Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted July 21, 2012 Author Share Posted July 21, 2012 G`day Folks, Here`s an update from the news desk!!!!!! Gormo`s point lever plan has passed inspection and will be sent off to the laser cut firm in the following week. This past week has seen a couple of minor improvements to the system. The cradle retaining screw has now been replaced with a black screw ( eg. post # 111) which has a bigger head and consequently it holds the CBI and the cable clip quite firmly. The second improvement was replacement of the additional washers mentioned above in post #138 from 2 flat washers to 2 spring washers. The spring washers keep the whole frame firm and in place.............it also allows better adjustment of pressure against the lever to hold it in it`s relative position. Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest 40-something Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Hi Folks Just a quick update on my 'point shooglers' (TM!) All the mechanisms have been fitted to the points and the toggle switches wired up, apart from a couple of shorts caused by crossed wiring, all works perfectly fine! Not the most handsome of point control but rugged and reliable so far! Thanks for everyones Ideas and inspiration, couldnt have done it without you guys. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted July 26, 2012 Author Share Posted July 26, 2012 Evenin` All Just an update.............The final drawing for the point lever is with the laser cut service and I expect to take delivery within 4 to 5 days. In my mind that project is locked down and I can move forward. Today I have been working on a bell crank and it is coming along nicely. The plan is to make it adaptable , like the lever. I have added CBI`s and a nylon spacer. Some pics below The bell crank has had some rough treatment on my testing bench and so far it has taken it quite well. The pic below shows the attachment of the CBI The next pic shows the nylon spacer.........it`s about 6mm.......needed for clearance for the CBI`s Finally another shot from the top I am confident with this design ( famous last words !!!! )......the triangular shape gives the 1mm thick aluminium strength and at 1mm.....it is just the right thickness to accommodate the screws from the CBI`s.............................All for now .............Cheers Gormo Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRealistic Posted July 26, 2012 Share Posted July 26, 2012 Looking great Brian... like the idea of a more secure cbi link to the crank, rather than a bend in the wire/rod... but, nevertheless, I think I'll be snaking my way between 'flossing-lever' and 'choc block TOU'!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gormo Posted July 29, 2012 Author Share Posted July 29, 2012 Looking great Brian... like the idea of a more secure cbi link to the crank, rather than a bend in the wire/rod... but, nevertheless, I think I'll be snaking my way between 'flossing-lever' and 'choc block TOU'!! Thanks Alan The CBI`s are handy little gizmos...........surprisingly strong!!!!........for cheap little suckers. Speaking of cheap...........the cable clips come in a number of different sizes and if you buy them in bulk ( 200 ).......they are as cheap as chips. I am still experimenting with them and trying different applications for them..........if nothing else.....a clip will remain as a fundamental part of the point lever.................I am just waiting now for my levers to arrive...........it will be interesting to see how they turn out???????.................................Cheers Brian ( Gormo ) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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