Rick_Skateboard Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Hello All, I intend to scratchbuild carriage 9004, the GWR Club Saloon that was used as an Observation Carr on the Kyle Line in the 1970s/80s. I have never scratchbuilt anything before but I want this coach for my layout and I don't think there is a kit available. If I was going to have to scratchbuilt it, then this challenge is the perfect reason to start. I wonder if anyone has any scale drawings of this coach? I was lucky enough to do some work on the Queen of Scots train at Crewe and I took a lot of pictures of it then, but a drawing would obviously be very helpful. Any comments/tips would be great. Rick 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 25, 2012 Share Posted March 25, 2012 Welcome to the challenge, it looks like a nice coach. I am sure you will do well, most of scratch building is designing the parts so that you can build. Just takes a little longer than kit building. What scale you working to? Hopefully some one can furnish you with a drawing, and I look forward to seeing your progress. Do not worry you will get lots of help and encouragement on this site. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_Skateboard Posted March 25, 2012 Author Share Posted March 25, 2012 Hi Peter. Thanks for the kind words. I should have said, the scratchbuilt is in 4mm! I've always found this forum to be very helpful and encouraging. Hopefully someone will have a drawing or be able to quote some basic dimensions. Otherwise I'll have to try to scale it from photos. Cheers, Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted March 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2012 I think you will find that W9004W was an inspection Saloon and one 'net source states it was built to Diagram G59 in 1931. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Scottish Modeller Posted March 25, 2012 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 25, 2012 (edited) Hi Rick, There was a discussion about this coach on Scottish Modellers some time ago. Thanks for posting the 2 photos you have as these are the best we have come across! Anyway - Our info confirms what Mike has said. W9004W - Inspection Saloon Swindon 1931 Diag G59. Our information also has indicated that modifications were done in 1971. We do not know what the modifications were or where they were done. Attached are 2 scans photos sent in one of our members of this coach at Kyle. Photographer/owner not known - Unable to confirm with the member as he has passed away. If anyone either knows whose the photos are or is the photographer - please let me know. Then we can update our records approriately. Thanks Edited May 17, 2012 by Andy Y Images available on request from Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 26, 2012 Share Posted March 26, 2012 To save anyone else looking, I wondered whether there might be a drawing in one of Russell's books on GW coaches but sadly there is not. There is a statement that the coach was built to the same dimensions as the 1929 Riviera stock. That may be true as regards length and height but cannot be right as regards width for the Riviera coaches were 9'5" wide - too wide to be allowed off the GWR. If it does come down to scaling from the photographs a good starting point is the wheelbase of the bogies - 7 feet. Whether the bogie centres are 46'6" and the length over corners 60'0" in common with other vehicles of that vintage is a good question, I'm afraid. Now if that doesn't flush out a drawing from somewhere .... Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
N15class Posted March 31, 2012 Share Posted March 31, 2012 To save anyone else looking, I wondered whether there might be a drawing in one of Russell's books on GW coaches but sadly there is not. There is a statement that the coach was built to the same dimensions as the 1929 Riviera stock. That may be true as regards length and height but cannot be right as regards width for the Riviera coaches were 9'5" wide - too wide to be allowed off the GWR. If it does come down to scaling from the photographs a good starting point is the wheelbase of the bogies - 7 feet. Whether the bogie centres are 46'6" and the length over corners 60'0" in common with other vehicles of that vintage is a good question, I'm afraid. Now if that doesn't flush out a drawing from somewhere .... Chris I like your signature about an expert. In the building firm I used to work for our deffinition was slightly different and is as follows An ex is a has been and a spert is a drip under pressure. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted April 6, 2012 Share Posted April 6, 2012 Rick, have you thought of contacting Pendon Museum? I was there today and caught sight of a model that looks awfully like 9004. Sadly I could not get a close look at it. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted April 10, 2012 Share Posted April 10, 2012 (edited) Hello All, I don't think there is a kit available. Rick The sides/ends for this vehicle have been produced a couple of times. Tony Hammnd made it back in the arly 80's (the Pendon one Chris mentions uses his parts). 247 Developments had the sides only for a while whilst it was still run by Errol, but it appears to have been dropped from the current list. The challenge was joining sides to ends as there is only a narrow window pillar at one of the ends which is very weak in 4mm. Mike Wiltshire Edited April 10, 2012 by Coach bogie 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick_Skateboard Posted May 1, 2012 Author Share Posted May 1, 2012 I'm now in the process of hunting down some etched sides. I fear this will no longer be able to compete in a scratchbuilding competition though! Rick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomstaf Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 Digging this thread up again. Is the coach profile and length likely to be the same as other Collet coaches such as the G58 nondescript saloons? Cheers Tom Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted November 28, 2017 Share Posted November 28, 2017 No. The length over body is given in Harris as 61 ft 4 1/2 inches which is the same as the corridor stock built between 1929 and 1932. The body profile is the same as the K40 full brake - 9 ft width at the waist, 8 ft 5 in at the cantrail so it looks as though the sides are bulging. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Penguin 0f Doom Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Digging this thread up again. Is the coach profile and length likely to be the same as other Collet coaches such as the G58 nondescript saloons? Cheers Tom Digging this thread up again...... Does anyone know if the ends of this coach were flat or curved and if so, to what extent please. Better still, is anyone able (and of course willing), to take a picture of the preserved example side on showing the end profile. As usual, beer awaits anyone who can help. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisf Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 It is bow ended, so curved. Think of the Airfix B set coach [but only for a moment ...]. The photos in post #1 show it quite well. Chris 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Penguin 0f Doom Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 It is bow ended, so curved. Think of the Airfix B set coach [but only for a moment ...]. The photos in post #1 show it quite well. Chris Thanks for the confirmation Chris. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted March 17, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 17, 2018 (edited) Silly question - is the carriage no longer around? Have you asked the GWS if they hold any 'photos / drawings? Good luck with this project Edited March 17, 2018 by Neal Ball Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Penguin 0f Doom Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 Silly question - is the carriage no longer around? Have you asked the GWS if they hold any 'photos / drawings? Good luck with this project I believe both 9004 and 9005 are preserved o the West Somerset Railway (happy to be corrected), but sadly, this is too far for me to justify a visit. It is also my first foray into anything GWR (apart from a Lima Western when I was 12), so I'm still finding my feet as regards research material. Cheers. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Penguin 0f Doom Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 In addition to the above, I do have a drawing of the coach but it shows the side/end joint as following the tumblehome contour whereas photos look to show this joint to be vertical (much like a Mk1 coach), so I'm just trying to find out which is right, my eyesight or the drawing..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach bogie Posted March 17, 2018 Share Posted March 17, 2018 One was at Buckfastleigh not that long ago Mike Wiltshire 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold 81C Posted March 17, 2018 RMweb Gold Share Posted March 17, 2018 One was at Buckfastleigh not that long ago Mike Wiltshire DSCF1913.JPG It was being used in the summer last year as the lead coach on their evening dinning train. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted March 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2018 I believe both 9004 and 9005 are preserved o the West Somerset Railway (happy to be corrected), but sadly, this is too far for me to justify a visit. It is also my first foray into anything GWR (apart from a Lima Western when I was 12), so I'm still finding my feet as regards research material. Cheers. In which case, see if the respective railways have stock books available to buy / on-line details and perhaps have a trawl through Flickr. As one is at the SDR on their dining trains, its bound to be photographed. Failing that become a member of the SDR and ask for a donation, if someone will photograph it for you. Good luck with the project. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted March 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2018 Try this - must be loads more 'photos on-line: https://www.flickr.com/photos/25830408@N08/13904374136/in/photolist-nbFy1y https://www.flickr.com/photos/25830408@N08/13927730734/in/datetaken/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/25830408@N08/13925725095/in/datetaken/ Off topic, but this to be in a sorry state! https://www.flickr.com/photos/25830408@N08/13903747486/in/datetaken/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted March 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2018 A search on Flickr for "GWR carriage 9004" then also shows a good number of photos: https://www.flickr.com/photos/14581588@N05/9931323613/in/photolist-dmtLbf-g8ACvt-85Uzex-MHJsw3/ Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Neal Ball Posted March 18, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 18, 2018 This page shows the only photo I have found of the other side - plus an interior: http://www.southdevonrailwayassociation.org/News-and-Press-Releases/Special-Saloon-9005.html Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Penguin 0f Doom Posted March 18, 2018 Share Posted March 18, 2018 Thanks Nick. I've never been good on flickr but must try logging in - there seems to be a good few subject pictures there. As regards the SDR, I will get in touch, I'm a big fan of supporting such causes especially where one can potentially benefit in ways such as this. Thanks again. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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