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Theory of General Minories


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I can't seem to find my 00 track plan book with Minories in it. Can anyone send me a copy of the Minories plan for 00 scale? If possible, with the 1ft by 1ft squares, similar to plans in Railway modeller magazine or if not, with information on baseboard size.

 

thanks

Mike

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Minories and it's variations will fit in a wide range of spaces so 'including squares' isn't really relevant.

 

http://carendt.us/scrapbook/page61a/index.html scroll down that for the plan and original size (60x8in on 3mm/ft) although it lacks the squares, as I say above it's about the point layout not the size. You can squeeze it into something smaller (to a degree), or grow it in length quite happily.

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Thanks for that but I already have a track plan for it but it's not to scale.

 

I was hoping for one drawn to scale, so I can figure out what size trains it can take, platform widths and things like what type of points it uses etc etc. I have an idea based on Minories and I need to work out how to adapt it to fit my idea.

 

thanks

Mike

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If you want to work out sizes etc from a trackplan the best idea is to get hold of the Peco turnout plans http://www.peco-uk.com/page.asp?id=pointplans and arrange them as per the track plan or your version of it. This allows you to experiment with different radii to establish what area the pointwork will need or how tight you can make it in order to save space. The key to Minories is the layout of the pointwork and once you know how much room that will take you will know how much room you've got left in the area in which you plan to build the layout - enabling you to see if you've got enough space for the platform lengths or hidden sidings you need for the trains you intend to run.

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Minories is an excellent plan for a small, main line terminus. My first Bradford North Western was based on it and was really successful. One little piece of advice - don't do as I did, which was to build the plan as a mirror image of CJF's original. Doing so reduces the length of departing trains that can fit. CJF knew what he was doing!

 

Ian

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I've been having a go with the Peco point templates, using the medium radius, I'm going to try again with small radius points as I think the medium are too big. I agree the pointwork is crucial but I'd still like a scale plan if poss as a starting point to work from.

 

thanks

Mike

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I've got a copy of "60 plans for small railways" in front of me, which doesn't have a plan as such, but has a couple of scale 3D sketches (for the passenger only version and the version with the goods yard), with a scale alongside.

 

The size of the layouts are 6'8" x 9" or 1'5" respectively, which allowing 2" per track makes the platforms 1 1/2" wide.

 

The platforms are approx 4' long on the first plan (on the second, the front platform road is 6 or so inches shorter to allow access to the goods headshunt). The remaining 2'8" is the pointwork, which makes each point approx 8" long. I'm not sure which radius was used, but given that CJF's aim in designing it was to get a terminus in a small space, I'm guessing he used the smallest radius available. But as has already been said, one of the beauties of the plan is that it can be easily adapted to suit a given space (within reason).

 

Nigel Spate (Xerxes Fobe on here) was involved in building and operating a Minories-style layout a few years ago (its name unfortunately escapes me), and may be able to advise further.

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That might be the book I've got but can't find!

 

Some useful info there! That answers the platform width question, I suspected they would be quite narrow. Eight inches long is about the same as the Medium Radius points, which are too big in my mind, the small radius ones are about 7 inches long, so might work better, as long as the dreaded setrack points are avoided!

 

This is what I'm thinking - total layout size 12ft by 1ft, including some kind of fiddle yard. Max train size will be a class 37 or 47 pus 4 Mk 1 or Mk 2 coaches - this equates to about 4ft 4 or 4ft 5. So there has to be at least 2 platforms capable of handling that (not bothered if the loco goes past the platform ramps) as well as the sidings in the fiddle yard.

 

It's passenger/parcels only, Scotrail themed with local loco hauled trains and DMU's. My McRats and 37/4's will dominate the haulage with a few 47's.

 

thanks

Mike

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Thanks for that but I already have a track plan for it but it's not to scale.

 

I was hoping for one drawn to scale, so I can figure out what size trains it can take, platform widths and things like what type of points it uses etc etc. I have an idea based on Minories and I need to work out how to adapt it to fit my idea.

 

 

As stationmaster and I both said/implied - the beauty of the design isn't as specific as a fixed size. In OO I'd say the minimum you'd want is 3 coaches plus a loco (which could be a tank engine - or at a push (but really pushing it to the minimal) a 2 coach DMU or similar. So lets' go for the former - that gives you say 3'6" for the platform section, with tight points probably 2'6" for the points.. so rough guess would be you could squeeze it into a 6" length or 72". The length given in my link is 80" which would allow say medium points and a bit more room in the platforms.

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That might be the book I've got but can't find!

 

Some useful info there! That answers the platform width question, I suspected they would be quite narrow. Eight inches long is about the same as the Medium Radius points, which are too big in my mind, the small radius ones are about 7 inches long, so might work better, as long as the dreaded setrack points are avoided!

 

This is what I'm thinking - total layout size 12ft by 1ft, including some kind of fiddle yard. Max train size will be a class 37 or 47 pus 4 Mk 1 or Mk 2 coaches - this equates to about 4ft 4 or 4ft 5. So there has to be at least 2 platforms capable of handling that (not bothered if the loco goes past the platform ramps) as well as the sidings in the fiddle yard.

 

It's passenger/parcels only, Scotrail themed with local loco hauled trains and DMU's. My McRats and 37/4's will dominate the haulage with a few 47's.

 

thanks

Mike

 

Completely doable. give yourself 3' for the throat, 4'6 for the platforms and 4'6 for the fiddle yard. I'd say mediums would be very likely to be ok.

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Minories is an excellent plan for a small, main line terminus. My first Bradford North Western was based on it and was really successful. One little piece of advice - don't do as I did, which was to build the plan as a mirror image of CJF's original. Doing so reduces the length of departing trains that can fit. CJF knew what he was doing!

 

Ian

 

Hi Ian.

 

It's funny you should say that: I also mirror-imaged it for my previous layout's branch line but as I also stretched it by another 2' or so, train lengths weren't a problem for me. What it did do was snarl up the operation of the parcels bay as it required a double shunt to get trains back out of it! :lol:

 

I also adapted it somewhat by adding a double-slip leading across to a turntable, so as to avoid having to shunt locomotives into the goods sidings before setting back into the turntable and sheds.

 

I also agree that it is an excellent plan, to use 'as is' or in adapted forms.

Edited by SRman
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I don't think I've seen the Goods Yard one. Just how different is it (I don't like passenger trains.....)

 

Best, Pete.

 

well, I may not talk to you anymore.

 

 

The goods shed variant has a kick back headshunt coming off the nearest platform, then going into a 2-road goods shed in front of that platform. The rest of the plan is just as before. The extra space is 8" of width.

 

(My copy of 60 Plans for Small Railways is the second edition, 10th impression dated Nov. 1969. Minories is plan 49s, the expanded plan is 50s but they are not named.)

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The great attraction of Minories, to me at least, is the sweeping station throat, which gives a air of complexity, without the complex, and avoids reverse curves through small radius point work. Unfortunately the throat, using off the shelf point work, does use up a lot of space. Doing a quick 5min job on AnyRail for your 12x1 space does suggest it is doable for your modern loco plus 3, but only if you have a traverser fiddle yard.

 

post-392-0-12215500-1344784386_thumb.jpg

 

If you want a Scottish theme, you can do a 5 platform Queen Street in the same space and gain a bit on platform and fiddle yard lengths and save the cost of one point, with the crossovers being located in the tunnel trains enter/leave the tunnel on either line in real life.

 

post-392-0-40559600-1344784410_thumb.jpg

 

It would be cramped in the space, but a few extra inches on the width could make for a nice layout, alternatively you could also keep the extra platform/train lengths for a pointed fiddle yard which would perhaps be easier for solo operation etc.

 

I personally have no problem with the bottom platform being no more than a platform edge, as it helps protect stock from being knocked off the layout when the track is so close to the edge, but many folk would prefer a real rather than a imaginary platform!

 

Anyway, I hope these sketches help feed the creative juices!

 

Angus

Edited by AngusDe
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It just seems a shame to me to have half the length of the layout for fiddling. If you use the "isographic" version you could develope the kickback road into goods or M.U. servicing in front of the FY.

 

Ed

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I can't quite get it to work on anyrail either. The problem also is the baseboards would be 4ft by 1ft and given the max train length is something like 4ft 4 or 5in, I'm not sure a traveser would work and I've even tried saving some length on the point work by using a 3 way point.

 

So my question is - has anyone got any ideas about how this can be done. My criteria would be the following.

 

1) Max train length is a class 37 or 47 plus 4 mk 1 or 2 coaches, approx 4ft 4 or 5in. At least 2 platforms would need to accodate this length train and all of the fiddle yard sidings.

2) The baseboards are 4 ft by 1 ft, with a total length of 12ft

3) The track plan is to be based on Minories with 3 platforms and a loco stabling siding and the trains must be able to enter the scenic section and arrive at any platform and vice versa.

 

thanks

Mike

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A couple more thoughts.

 

On the 3 x 4ft boards, you could have the traverser mechanics on a single board and the deck slightly longer? But that would require some quality woodwork on the baseboards for hassle free operation!..

 

Keeping all the pointwork on the central board would simplify wiring, and (to some extent) construction.

 

Fitting it all into 12ft is still a squeeze and my only thoughts involve double slips!

 

post-392-0-54189500-1344792976_thumb.jpg

 

You'd need a scenic break that would disguise the entry/exit being essentially single track, I've also added the suggested carriage sidings/parcels/whatever to hide the fiddle yard in the domestic setting.

 

The trouble is you've lost some of the flowing curves of classic minories, and double slips can be a bit more problematical for wiring and trouble free operation. You've also lost the ability for parallel arrivals/departures that you'd have with a traverser or a scissors crossing in the fiddle yard if you had a bit more room. If it is purely a domestic, single handed operation you wouldn't notice this restriction tho'...

 

Just some thoughts, hope they help.

 

Angus

Edited by AngusDe
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In my haste I uploaded the wrong minories sketch, here is a more faithful version, but it uses the same space etc:-

 

Angus

 

 

It's still not quite right - the facing crossover is in the wrong place. See http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cqP72O35CNs/TdYIYi3cuLI/AAAAAAAABVw/gRT_1vbACK4/s1600/Minories+-+close+up.JPG as posted above by Russ (mine's a pint).

 

Sorry to be so pedantic but CJF's combination of turnouts is pure genius!

 

Ian

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It's still not quite right - the facing crossover is in the wrong place. See http://3.bp.blogspot... - close up.JPG as posted above by Russ (mine's a pint).

 

Sorry to be so pedantic but CJF's combination of turnouts is pure genius!

 

Ian

 

Your right Ian, corrected plan inserted! You'd think I'd know it instinctively, having played around with it for 40+ years, lol!

 

Angus

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Nice ideas but double slips confuse me, I've had a go on someone's small shunting layout that had them and I kept getting them wrong!

 

I'm thinking about making it a single track in and out as that would simply matters.

 

thanks

Mike

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That works too. After I dismantled my old layout, I set up the branch terminus with a temporary fiddle yard (consisting of a single track!) and took the left-hand outbound track out of commission beyond the crossover. Operationally it still provided much interest for me until I was finally ready to commence the new layout.

Edited by SRman
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