Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Evenin' all,I've negotiated with David Rogers at Ultrascale to produce P4 conversion packs for both of the above locos. The Hornby West Country pack should be available mid 2013 directly from Ultrascale at a cost of £90 - £120, depending on the work involved and number of components needed to complete the pack.The Dapol Beattie well tank P4 conversion pack requires £1000 in development costs due to the complexity of this conversion and the niche market for these locos (payable to Ultrascale) to be shared amongst those wanting the packs. The packs will cost £90 - £120 again depending on the work required and the number of components involved. This pack will not go on general sale, therefore the only way of obtaining one is to share in this developmental route with me. The release date will be in 2014 (I'll give a more specific date as work progresses). This opportunity will close on 1st September 2013 by which time I/Ultrascale will have collected the monies from those wanting the packs.David will be adding these details to his Ultrascale website shortly. The batting order will be: the individual wheelsets for the West Country produced first (probably late this year), followed by the conversion pack for the WC (Easter - June 2013 is likely) then the Beattie conversion pack will be part 3 of the process in 2014.CheersDave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 Look forward to seeing how they do it. Some of us out there had thought that the Kernow/Dapol Beattie had been designed so that it couldn't be regauged. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hello there, Discussion with David Rogers at Ultrascale today indicates that the sides of the front two sets of splashers will need to be thinned from the inside and the cylinders moved outwards slightly in order to accommodate the P4 wheelsets. The brake rigging will also need to be fitted around the wheelsets. David has already dismantled his Beattie and paid attention to the drive mechanism between the two drive axles. He sees no bar to the P4 conversion.....yes it will be a pain but we're going to see it through. Will advise as and when any more detail available. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 22, 2012 Share Posted August 22, 2012 ....The Hornby West Country pack should be available mid 2013 directly from Ultrascale at a cost of £90 - £120 depending on the work involved and number of components..... Wonder if the Bulleid driving wheels will be available with 1/8" axles for kitbuilders? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted August 22, 2012 Author Share Posted August 22, 2012 Hello there, Ultrascale are developing the individual wheelsets for the West Country as part of their own range, for general sale and it is worth asking them about their plans for alternative axle diameters. I'm only the point of contact for the Dapol Beattie conversion pack. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted August 24, 2012 Author Share Posted August 24, 2012 David at Ultrascale has now added details of the forthcoming wheelsets and packs to the 'New Product Development' section of the Ultrascale website. http://www.ultrascale.com/node/40 Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted August 24, 2012 Share Posted August 24, 2012 Ah, that answers my question. Thanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 Mornin' all, Early enquiries for the Beattie conversion pack centre on two concerns: firstly, it is a bit much to expect people to pay a significant amount for something that they haven't seen working. secondly, it is better to have a good estimate of the cost per pack, rather than a shared amount. I'll speak with David Rodgers about moving the deadline for orders to 6 months after the prototype conversion pack has been fitted to a loco and has been demonstrated to be successful. David will already know from experience the minimum number of these packs which are likely to be sold over a period of years. Therefore, it should be possible to give a fixed price per pack rather than assuming that if the packs proved popular then the amount per pack would reduce. I'm working with Ultrascale for a good reason, their products are of good quality, finished to a high standard and I believe that the end result for both the West Country/Battle of Britain pacific and Beattie conversion packs will be a good one. Your views please Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest oldlugger Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Excellent news Dave! I wonder whether Ultrascale might add the Dapol class 73 at some stage too? Cheers Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 Mornin' Simon, Thats an easy one. If we as P4 modellers work sensibly with Ultrascale then there is no limit to the range of good quality, reliable wheelsets which will become available. The quality aspect is critical because without well laid track and high spec wheelsets the trains won't run reliably/stay on the track. Also, P4 is a niche market and some locos e.g. your 73 are a limited area of that niche. Many potential conversion packs will therefore need some investment from the P4 modeller. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orion Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 Will nickel silver tyres give enough grip in a small loco like the Beattie? My experience with Ultrascales in larger locos is that they are nothing like as effective as similar locos fitted with Gibson steel tyres. I agree the quality is excellent, but if the locos can't pull a decent load, I have problems with using them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted August 25, 2012 Author Share Posted August 25, 2012 That is a good point, I don't know is the answer but I'm sure that David at Ultrascale will know. I'll get back to you with his response. I wouldn't imagine that it would be an issue to specify the metal that gives the best grip. One consideration is whether steel or nickel silver rails are used. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Prism Posted August 25, 2012 Share Posted August 25, 2012 I doubt you'll get David Rogers to produce steel tyres unless you're buying the whole batch. They don't like steel! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted August 26, 2012 Author Share Posted August 26, 2012 Mornin' all, We're back to investment again, steel tyres will need to be contracted into Ultrascale in quantity, the £1000 of investment required for the conversion pack will then double to £2000. At the moment nickel silver tyres are the only sensible option, there is of course a choice between steel or nickel silver rails. I googled the issue of coefficients of friction for steel/nickel silver on model railways and came across this site http://www.modelrail...85&st=0&start=0 I'd previously only considered nickel silver rails for Torr Giffard but steel is now likely to be the rail of choice. The Dapol Beattie seems to be in need of a bit of weight over the driving wheels so I'll be looking for any hollow or empty spaces in which a little lead can be added. Steel on steel appears best for grip with nickel silver on steel second and nickel silver on nickel silver giving the least grip or friction. I am in contact with the EM gauge society, Scalefour Society and South Western Circle regarding the advertising of this project. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted August 28, 2012 Author Share Posted August 28, 2012 Evenin' all, In the event of no further sponsorship being forthcoming for the Beattie well tank conversion pack (to fund the steel tyred and EM gauge versions) then I may choose to make this a limited edition release of 30 packs, with a share of the £1000 development cost added to each pack. Orders would be able to be placed immediately with full payment reserving the number of packs ordered. In the unlikely event that unforeseen difficulties with the Beattie cause the pack to be cancelled, then a full refund would be made. No development costs will be charged by Ultrascale unless the pack is successful. This would produce a price per pack of £124-£154 depending on the number of components in the pack and the amount of work required to produce them. No final decisions taken on this yet, I'm hoping that the forthcoming advertising will throw up new options. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted September 10, 2012 Author Share Posted September 10, 2012 Evenin' all, Just arrived back from a week in the Padstow area inc. a visit to the Bodmin & Wenford gala....loads of video clips of the Beattie wheelsets (30587) and all relevant measurements taken for production of the Ultrascale wheelsets. Donation made to the B&W for kindly allowing access to the loco. David at Ultrascale is currently working on stage one of the program, the development of the Bulleid WC wheelsets http://www.ultrascale.com/node/40 Below are some links to camcorder clips of the Beattie wheelsets: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oepsyW_mnks&feature=youtu.be I've arranged a meeting with David Rodgers for October when I will hand over a high definition DVD of all relevant images and a comprehensive set of diagrams/measurements, along with several associated reference books. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 Evenin' all, On a similar thread to the Beattie and West Country wheelsets I've tested 2 Dapol class 22 diesel wheelset conversions (again by Ultrascale) today and they run/work perfectly. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted September 25, 2012 Share Posted September 25, 2012 Yes, I saw your Beattie when I visited the workshop recently on another matter. Having been shown its innards, I have to say you're a brave man to take this one on. I'm so glad I stuck to the Westward kit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted September 25, 2012 Author Share Posted September 25, 2012 Hello there, ...not my project of first choice but given the otherwise high standards of the model (for the P4 modeller esp.) I think we'll be waiting some considerable time for someone else to produce at least an equal version. I do have an, as yet, unbuilt Westward kit too (just in case) ;-) I remain firmly commited to the notion that if anyone can produce a high grade P4 conversion kit for this model, then it is Ultrascale! Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted September 26, 2012 Author Share Posted September 26, 2012 Evenin' all, Following the advertising of this project in the South Western Circle newsletter advance orders/reservations are rolling in for the Beattie conversion packs, with almost one third already earmarked. Based on 30 packs the development charge of £1000 requested by Ultrascale comes out at £33.33 per pack. This £1000 will be the first payment that I will be making to Ultrascale for this project. A sensible approach now that I'm taking orders/reservations for sets is to collect the £33.33 per pack and pay it to Ultrascale. I will be contacting by e-mail/message service those who have reserved sets so far. In the event that the project is unsuccessful this money will be returned. Once the packs are available from Ultrascale then those who have paid their £33.33 per pack will then owe £90-£120 per pack depending on the number of components in the pack/amount of work which it took to produce them. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 11, 2012 Author Share Posted October 11, 2012 Evenin' all, I met up with David Rodgers and his dad in Letchworth today and handed over all relevant measurements and images for the Beattie conversion pack. David will be communicating with me as he gears up for the production of the various wheel moulds to ensure that all important dimensions correspond to the prototype. In the meantime work continues on the West Country pacific wheelsets. Regards Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 16, 2012 Author Share Posted October 16, 2012 Aft'noon all, I've arranged with the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre to call and make a couple of outstanding measurements of the wheels on 30585 tomorrow. These dimensions and film footage will add to the information already passed to David Rodgers. Once the Beattie project is fully underway at Ultrascale David will be checking all relevant details with a 'fine tooth comb' to ensure that we get the best result possible. As it stands the project is still a limited edition of 30 conversion packs in Nickel Silver. Advertising with the EM gauge and Scalefour Societies is still ongoing. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 18, 2012 Author Share Posted October 18, 2012 Mornin' all, A visit to the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre yesterday allowed the measurements and filming of the Beattie wheelsets to be completed (this time of 30585) to David Rodgers satisfaction, see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7YUNXqicpQ&feature=youtu.be Grateful thanks to the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre for allowing access to the loco. Donation made to their cause. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted October 25, 2012 Author Share Posted October 25, 2012 Mornin' all, Ten of the thirty P4 Beattie conversion packs have now been reserved with the majority having paid their development money. The DVD of close up footage of 30585's wheelsets has now been sent to David Rodgers along with the outstanding measurements. I have two requests for EM packs but it will require considerably more orders to make the EM pack viable. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Torr Giffard LSWR 1951-71 Posted November 6, 2012 Author Share Posted November 6, 2012 Aft'noon all, 12 of the 30 conversion packs for the Beattie well tank have now been reserved. Current conversations with David Rodgers indicate that the release date for the West Country wheelsets (stage 1 of our process) is now likely to be between April and June 2013. Cheers Dave Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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