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jools1959

Heljan Dogfish

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Hi gang, bought a pair of Heljan Dogfish ballast wagons yesterday as i'm sure LT had several of them or something similar. Could someone give me some ideas as to make them more authentic.

 

Julian Sprott

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Actually the LT wagons were more like Catfish which are quite difficult to convert to Dogfish. You basically have 3 chocies:

a/ Very difficult conversion

b/ Buy eg Cambrian Catfish

c/ Cheat! For the time being I just repainted my Heljan Dogfish and modified the steps. A simple conversion if you're happy with different hoppers from the LT version.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/47249-some-lt-wagons/

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Hi Metro, I think I will just cheat lol. I think several of these repainted and renumbered behind one of my Bachmann LT Pannier tanks and brake vans will look great.

 

Julian Sprott

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Ive always felt the best option would be to ask Barry at Cambrian for a Dogfish, but with the hoppper body moulding of a Catfish.

 

Jon

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Ive always felt the best option would be to ask Barry at Cambrian for a Dogfish, but with the hoppper body moulding of a Catfish.

 

Jon

 

Now why didn't I think of that :-).

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Lol Jon, maybe I will do that eventually but I will just repaint the two Dogfish I bought.

 

Julian Sprott

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Had a look at the Cambrian cat & dog fish kits in my local model shop today. The under frame (sole bar) moulding appears to be identical, with just the "floor" mesh and chutes being different.

 

On that basis, I think that a catfish kit should suffice for now. Is there an equivalent to Hmrs Paul's wagon pages for LU stock I wonder?

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Had a look at the Cambrian cat & dog fish kits in my local model shop today. The under frame (sole bar) moulding appears to be identical, with just the "floor" mesh and chutes being different.

 

On that basis, I think that a catfish kit should suffice for now. Is there an equivalent to Hmrs Paul's wagon pages for LU stock I wonder?

 

I really think it would be worth asking Barry - it should be easy enough for him to accomodate you (I keep meaning to ask myself) and the HWxxx series are 3 shute wagons, but with a smaller body - I have a photo (print-can't lay my hands on) of two HW's either side of a dogfish on the Isle of Wight, and the difference is very noticable.

Edit - http://www.iwsteamra...ruary-2012.html the two nearest wagons with the guys in them are HW's and you can see the top of the Dogfish coupled to the loco.

 

A few photos of an HW

post-336-0-75217700-1352843247_thumb.jpg

post-336-0-82320600-1352843262.jpg

post-336-0-28772100-1352843271.jpg

post-336-0-76502900-1352843280.jpg

post-336-0-56699500-1352843294.jpg

post-336-0-02051600-1352843308.jpg

post-336-0-63785300-1352843312.jpg

post-336-0-56752400-1352843317.jpg

post-336-0-72516100-1352843321.jpg

post-336-0-50731500-1352843325_thumb.jpg

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My RT models buffers & sockets arrived today. Intended for a scratchbuild of a F, I can see me acquiring the two fish from Harburn and having a go. Are the pink bits air brake parts? Maybe something from my HO American stuff would pass muster

Edited by Jon Gwinnett

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The MW hoppers built by Gloucester had some differences to the Cat/Dogfish, principally the fully riveted body and the different drawgear arrangements (hinged RCH buffers, Westinghouse hose connectors and low auto buckeyes).

 

post-133-0-08603700-1352843876.png

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The MW hoppers built by Gloucester had some differences to the Cat/Dogfish, principally the fully riveted body and the different drawgear arrangements (hinged RCH buffers, Westinghouse hose connectors and low auto buckeyes).

and open W irons not platebacks - yes there are a lot of differnces, but there is potential...

 

Jon

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There are also pictures of HW418 on the Buckinghamshire Railway Centre web site http://www.brc-stock...co.uk/hw418.htm

 

According to J Graeme Bruce's "Workhorses of the London Underground", HW418 was one of a third batch of 23 hopper wagons ordered from Gloucester in 1951. These would have been numbered HW412 to HW434.

 

There was originally one batch of 7 hoppers bought from Gloucester Carriage & Wagon in 1935, each with 20-ton capacity, numbered HW400 to HW406. A further five were purchased in 1938 for the New Works Programme, HW407 to HW411.

 

Three more 20-ton hopper wagons were obtained from British Railways in 1965, numbered HW435 to HW437 It sounds like these might have been "Catfish" if the load capacity is anything to go by.

 

In the early 1980s a further 22 hopper wagons of 30-ton capacity were acquired from new from WH Davis & Son of Langwith Junction, and were numbered HW201 to HW222. These replaced some of the older hoppers. One of the new wagons was originally numbered HW438 when it was displayed at the Private Wagon Federations Exhibition at Olympia in March 1981, but was later renumbered in the HW201 to HW222 series.

 

HW235 must be from a post 1981 further order.

 

So by the sounds of it there may be at least three different designs, The Gloucester ones, the ex-BR ones (Catfish?) and the WH Davis ones.

Edited by GoingUnderground

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Having looked at these rather more closely, they are also unusual in having diagonally oposite brake andwheels, which makes the steps diagonally oposite as well, and therefore an operator can only get onto the operating platform from one side, and can't use the platform to swap sides!

 

Jon

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Some great pics there with some great close-ups. I think you can make a perfectly detailed 4-wheeled hopper car lettered for London Transport. I will use the two dogfish I have to make close copies of the the LT version.

 

Julian Sprott

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Resurrection time for this topic, I think.

 

I think the Cambrian Dogfish could be converted to an acceptable LT Hopper Wagon. Anyone tried that yet? Or have some of you scratch built the Hopper Wagons?

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It is very much Work in Progress, as you can see, but here's a shot of my "proof of concept" conversion of a Cambrian Models "Dogfish" to the Gloucester LT Hopper Wagon, modelled between a Bachmann LT Pannier and an EFE 38 Stock DM. The photo is a little out of focus, probably because the light level was too low against the largely white background for the camera to focus properly.

 

post-6983-0-25461000-1479027876.jpg

 

I still have a lot of mods to do and detailing to add. Will post further pictures as it progresses, but that probably won't be until well after Warley.

 

The conversion does have one advantage over a repaint of an RTR model, or over the Catfish in that it will fit in a Tube tunnel, as you can see from the comparison of the height with the 38 Stock cab.

 

Thanks to Jon Hall for his photos, which supplemented my own, also taken in 2012, and to Miss Prism for the one of the HW ex-works.

 

 

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