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12 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

Good morning Andrew,

 

Though there is provenance for some of the models (in some cases dating back over 40 years), sadly there is is nothing with the J27. It's obviously a much-later commission than some of the others, probably from the earlier years of this century (when did Dave Bradwell first introduce his J27?). It's certainly a far superior build, particularly mechanically, than some of the earlier models.

 

I, too, don't find much appeal in buying locos built by others, but there are a couple in this collection which are very tempting (again, later builds). I've actually made several examples of the same types, anyway, but these are better than my equivalent efforts. I do admit to buying several of Tony Geary's OO locos when he changed to O Gauge, but they have a touch of the personal about them (I know that sounds a bit sentimental, but you know what I mean). 

 

As to what happens to our models after we're gone...................... Because I have no belief in an afterlife (rewarded or condemned - the latter in my case), I really won't care two hoots. That said, it would be nice to think that any family 'survivors' would at least get some money for my 'collection', even if the market for it might be minute by then. What might be the future market for our kind of models (yours, to a higher standard)? Looking at the more-recent obituaries, an ever increasing supply and an ever decreasing demand! 

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

 

Good evening Tony,

 

everybody is allowed a bit of sentimentality, I have my Fathers locomotives. However, they do have a hard nosed function beyond pulling trains, they still set the standard that I aim for. In contrast to locomotives, I have purchased second hand rolling stock kits, that have been constructed or semi constructed by others. They are quickly reduced to their component parts and are the sort of thing that commands pocket money prices.

 

I'm more likely to purchase RTR locomotives than prebuilt kits. With the exception of a factory built DJH A1. The loco was second hand, it was one of hundreds of 'O' gauge locomotives that were part of a deceased estate, it had never been out of its box! It has now, it's a beautiful runner.  

 

My meagre RTR  loco collection wouldn't keep many manufactures in business, they would be long gone.  Quite often, they are rescue jobs that need a bit of TLC.  They usually get cascaded to backup status when I build something new.  Backup loco is a worthy job in itself, they have often come to the rescue of other peoples trains on LSGC but fortunately not my own.  My recent experience with brand new RTR has not been so successful, I lack the purchasing skills of the modern model railway consumer it would seem. I should have bought a nice kit,  Dad would be laughing in his grave, if he hadn't been cremated.

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A powered sample of Hornby's upcoming LNER W1 has been shared on here. The livery shown is the Apple Green livery. The comments from the poster are negative, mainly to the weight of the loco and the back set of bogie wheels. (Last page or Page 21). The model only could pull 6 coaches on the level. 

 

I would assume that the boiler could be filled with weights, if this was a fluke being a painted sample (or early production sample). The back two wheels will probably need complete retrofit to look better going around curves (if even possible given the locomotive length).

 

Opinions? 

 

 

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I'll be making a list of the remaining locos by this weekend. There are not many left (despite my being 'out of touch'). Two more went today for a combined total of £420.00. 

 

I seem to recall someone being interested in the A8, but I can't find the reference now. My apologies if I've misplaced it. If there is someone, will they kindly get back in touch, please? It's a lovely loco but it needs large-radius curves. 

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Buying a built kit from ebay is certainly taking your life in your hands. A few months ago I got a lot with 12 kit built waggons a couple of pc LSWR coaches and an LSWR 0395 which looked like it was just badly painted and needed a quick rebuild. You know what thought did. The paint was stripped off  and it fell to bits and not in a good way!  It was held together with bits of plastic and will need a complete new running plate!

20210608_163326.jpg.6bc82ca1a06508b09c67f19fc944d594.jpg

20210529_180021.jpg.b631af3ed366175ffbb71c9e7e1cdb2d.jpg

Mind you, it does make for a challenge. Here is the DJH frames and rods after some work. Mind you it will be a long time till it all gets finished knowing my mojo. 

20210610_075410.jpg.40db24a951ff252645511b005f3a1130.jpg

Please keep the thought provoking comments coming, they always make for interesting reading. 

Duncan

20210620_115753.jpg

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14 minutes ago, Tony Wright said:

Andy Sparkes (the Green Howards) and two other good friends popped over today. Andy is penning a piece on ECML prototype train formations for BRM, and his own layout, Gresley Junction, doesn't have enough open space to fit all the trains' lengths in in one shot. 

 

No problems on LB..........................

 

1024465655_prototypetrains01.jpg.0aa884c24971a8cef9b466870174f286.jpg

 

Well, almost none (the last coach in the rake is hidden). I think this is a forerunner of the Anglo Scottish Car Carrier, running overnight between London and Perth. Perhaps Andy will clarify. 

 

635668301_prototypetrains03.jpg.39953b14f68b43fb2e4ea578eacbdea6.jpg

 

This one is The Heart of Midlothian. Very impressive in full-length.

 

The day ended with our running LB's trains, and the finale was a spectacular derailment at high speed by 60113 GREAT NORTHERN, the loco ending up on its side! The cause proved to be a Gibson bogie wheel's tyre coming off its rim and jamming in the 'V' of a crossing. The bogie wheels will be replaced tomorrow with Markits examples. 

 

Thanks chaps for such a splendid day. Most-enjoyable all round, and some stimulating conversation.

Very impressive. Must look out for the edition of BRM with that article!

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On the subject of the Oxford Rail J27 model no. 1010, it is very unlikely to be sporting a smokebox with mushroom rivets in that livery. They weren't used until  the war years. The NER (and Darlington in the NER period) used flush rivets whenever they were clearly visible, that includes the bufferbeam.

ArthurK

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1 hour ago, Tony Wright said:

Andy Sparkes (the Green Howards) and two other good friends popped over today. Andy is penning a piece on ECML prototype train formations for BRM, and his own layout, Gresley Junction, doesn't have enough open space to fit all the trains' lengths in in one shot. 

 

No problems on LB..........................

 

1024465655_prototypetrains01.jpg.0aa884c24971a8cef9b466870174f286.jpg

 

Well, almost none (the last coach in the rake is hidden). I think this is a forerunner of the Anglo Scottish Car Carrier, running overnight between London and Perth. Perhaps Andy will clarify. 

 

635668301_prototypetrains03.jpg.39953b14f68b43fb2e4ea578eacbdea6.jpg

 

This one is The Heart of Midlothian. Very impressive in full-length.

 

The day ended with our running LB's trains, and the finale was a spectacular derailment at high speed by 60113 GREAT NORTHERN, the loco ending up on its side! The cause proved to be a Gibson bogie wheel's tyre coming off its rim and jamming in the 'V' of a crossing. The bogie wheels will be replaced tomorrow with Markits examples. 

 

Thanks chaps for such a splendid day. Most-enjoyable all round, and some stimulating conversation.

Thanks for your hospitality Tony. A great day with the normal erudite conversion mixed with banter and a lot of trains run - most enjoyable. 
 

I was in control of the A1/1 when it self destructed and was worried it was my fault for some ‘Duddingtonesque’ driving, so was rather relieved to find that Tony blamed the Gibson wheels - I suggested he fitted some Hornby ones instead but that didn’t go down well!

 

My trains didn’t behave very well with the Hunt magnetic couplings parting from time to time - often in the most inaccessible of locations. This is despite a thorough test at home before they were packed up. Apparently Tony has a special eye which causes other people’s trains to misbehave!

 

As for the trains photographed, the first is the ‘Car Sleeper Limited’. The first Motorrail service in the UK starting in 1955 and running between KX and Perth. It later had bogie CCTs and then the Newton Chambers car carriers in the early ‘60s. The coaches include 3 Kirk Sleeper thirds - the couchette type with four bunks per compartment.
 

The second is the Heart of Midlothian in its original ‘Festival of Britain’ guise. One of several all Mark 1 demonstration trains introduced in 1951. This loads to 14 vehicles including an original kitchen car (Comet) and RTO (Southern Pride). The rest is RTR. It shows what an ordinary Hornby A4 can haul.

 

Andy

 

 

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2 hours ago, Tony Wright said:

I'll be making a list of the remaining locos by this weekend. There are not many left (despite my being 'out of touch'). Two more went today for a combined total of £420.00. 

 

I seem to recall someone being interested in the A8, but I can't find the reference now. My apologies if I've misplaced it. If there is someone, will they kindly get back in touch, please? It's a lovely loco but it needs large-radius curves. 

As expected my wallet went home lighter after today’s trip - I was responsible for one of these. Tudor Minstrel will be making its entrance on Gresley Junction soon.

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7 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

As expected my wallet went home lighter after today’s trip - I was responsible for one of these. Tudor Minstrel will be making its entrance on Gresley Junction soon.

I'm delighted she's going to a very good home, Andy,

 

As I said, though competently-built and painted (and a good runner), the use of transfer lining proves that it's not the work of a pro' painter. Who built it, I have no idea, for there is no provenance with TUDOR MINSTREL. There was with NORTH EASTERN (built by DJH in Banbury, for a high price). Odd isn't it, that though one was painted perfectly, it runs like a bag of nails, yet the 'journeyman'-painted one just romped around? A pity the two could not have combined.; worth much more then. Both have sold now.

 

In fact, there's not a lot left now. PMP is popping over this morning to pick up what he's bought and to offer advice on using eBay (a total mystery to me). 

 

After the histrionics on this thread earlier in the week, how nice to receive a PM in complete opposition (thanks James, and, please, enjoy your K4).   

 

Regards,

 

Tony. 

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10 hours ago, ArthurK said:

On the subject of the Oxford Rail J27 model no. 1010, it is very unlikely to be sporting a smokebox with mushroom rivets in that livery. They weren't used until  the war years. The NER (and Darlington in the NER period) used flush rivets whenever they were clearly visible, that includes the bufferbeam.

ArthurK

Thanks Arthur

I'm also thinking that the rivets along the edge of the footplate are incorrect for all periods as I can't find any photos showing them.

Andrew

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12 hours ago, ArthurK said:

On the subject of the Oxford Rail J27 model no. 1010, it is very unlikely to be sporting a smokebox with mushroom rivets in that livery. They weren't used until  the war years. The NER (and Darlington in the NER period) used flush rivets whenever they were clearly visible, that includes the bufferbeam.

ArthurK

 I'm glad that you have mentioned that Arthur. Although I'm dealing with a 3D printed body for a J21 rather than the J27 at present I have been carefully preserving the rivet heads on the buffer beams while cleaning up and detailing the body. Now that I've checked photographs again, with my brain in something like the correct gear, I realise that there's little or no evidence for the rivet heads in the 1930s.

Plenty are visible on the buffer beam in a photograph of a Hawthorn 398 class dated in the caption as 1923 though, loco in final version of NER livery.

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The Dave Bradwell J26/J27 kit dates from about 1995 as first release. How do i know this... it was mrj 72 which mine is looking very worse for wear as i read it over and over and over.... then in 1998 I had one sent to the most odd location which Dave still remembers... Kokopo East New Britian PNG! Where i was working and spent many happy hours building... not my best build but enjoyable! I currently have my second kit on the work bench to move forward from a start about 8 years ago! 

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13 hours ago, thegreenhowards said:

Thanks for your hospitality Tony. A great day with the normal erudite conversion mixed with banter and a lot of trains run - most enjoyable. 
 

I was in control of the A1/1 when it self destructed and was worried it was my fault for some ‘Duddingtonesque’ driving, so was rather relieved to find that Tony blamed the Gibson wheels - I suggested he fitted some Hornby ones instead but that didn’t go down well!

 

My trains didn’t behave very well with the Hunt magnetic couplings parting from time to time - often in the most inaccessible of locations. This is despite a thorough test at home before they were packed up. Apparently Tony has a special eye which causes other people’s trains to misbehave!

 

As for the trains photographed, the first is the ‘Car Sleeper Limited’. The first Motorrail service in the UK starting in 1955 and running between KX and Perth. It later had bogie CCTs and then the Newton Chambers car carriers in the early ‘60s. The coaches include 3 Kirk Sleeper thirds - the couchette type with four bunks per compartment.
 

The second is the Heart of Midlothian in its original ‘Festival of Britain’ guise. One of several all Mark 1 demonstration trains introduced in 1951. This loads to 14 vehicles including an original kitchen car (Comet) and RTO (Southern Pride). The rest is RTR. It shows what an ordinary Hornby A4 can haul.

 

Andy

 

 

The HoM certainly looks the part. The one on Retford still needs an RSO. I did look at using my existing SPM one with etched sides but it looked out of place compared to Bachmann Mark 1s. I have some etched sides but they are rather basic. The train on Retford has a Thompson kitchen car but I think that was quite possible by 1957. The formation had undergone some changes by then, including the appearance of BSOs, which the representation on Retford does now have (Hornby ones). This clip was from prior to the Gresley open second being replaced by a Mark 1:

 

https://youtu.be/bS97LvmlLhg

 

I have used lots of Hunt couplings on Retford in place of those awful Bachmann pipe couplings and they work well most of the time. One or two have come out of the NEM boxes and a magnet came out at least once. If the train jerks suddenly they have a tendency to part but overall I think they have been OK so far. It makes it much easier to take a carriage out for attention or move stock around.

Edited by robertcwp
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5 hours ago, gr.king said:

 I'm glad that you have mentioned that Arthur. Although I'm dealing with a 3D printed body for a J21 rather than the J27 at present I have been carefully preserving the rivet heads on the buffer beams while cleaning up and detailing the body. Now that I've checked photographs again, with my brain in something like the correct gear, I realise that there's little or no evidence for the rivet heads in the 1930s.

Plenty are visible on the buffer beam in a photograph of a Hawthorn 398 class dated in the caption as 1923 though, loco in final version of NER livery.

Graeme

It's worth noting that where NE 0-6-0s had sandwich buffer beams they appear to be bolted together. This certainly applies to a lot of the J27s that I've been studying and also where J21s had these.

Andrew

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Last night was club night at Sleaford Lincs; model railway club. One of the lads produces his Oxford Rail J 27, notwithstanding all the comments over rivets and too small cab windows, how do they do it for the money? This one was in LNER livery but I felt it carried off that classy brutishness of the class very well. As I know nothing of the variations within the class I just thought what a fine model.  Compared with my Murphy Models CIE 121 class EMD, again with very fine detail and running qualities, at near half the price the J 27 looks like a steal. I hope Oxford Rail sell hundreds & hundreds of them.   Very good value for money

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Further to my comments on the J27, one thing that I didn't mention was the sandwich buffer beam which was widespread (but not universal) on NER locos, These had  a baulk of timber in front of the true bufferbeam and with a steel plate in front of that.  This sandwich was  attached with Hemispherical head coach bolts. These latter were very visible. This addition gave a degree of flexibility.

 

ArthurK

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On the advice of PMP, I'm trying a slightly different approach to selling the remaining locos from the recent collection. He's taken three to put on Ebay.................

 

So here goes.............

 

1471100811_D2001.jpg.f07411a8347547df63d020435a62c4cc.jpg

 

764626455_D2002.jpg.ccd94e78150cc750dffc5a3664cdd320.jpg

 

445937207_D2003.jpg.f7ef9e0f3b0be3e1a8aab8ddbf708cd0.jpg

 

Class D20, built from a DJH kit.

 

I'm asking £200.00 for this.

 

Another next..................

 

 

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5 hours ago, robertcwp said:

The HoM certainly looks the part. The one on Retford still needs an RSO. I did look at using my existing SPM one with etched sides but it looked out of place compared to Bachmann Mark 1s. I have some etched sides but they are rather basic. The train on Retford has a Thompson kitchen car but I think that was quite possible by 1957. The formation had undergone some changes by then, including the appearance of BSOs, which the representation on Retford does now have (Hornby ones). This clip was from prior to the Gresley open second being replaced by a Mark 1:

 

https://youtu.be/bS97LvmlLhg

 

I have used lots of Hunt couplings on Retford in place of those awful Bachmann pipe couplings and they work well most of the time. One or two have come out of the NEM boxes and a magnet came out at least once. If the train jerks suddenly they have a tendency to part but overall I think they have been OK so far. It makes it much easier to take a carriage out for attention or move stock around.

Thanks Robert,

 

My SP etched sides don’t match the Bachmann/ Hornbys perfectly, but I think they’re good enough. A bit of variation is prototypical isn’t it? I think Thompson kitchen cars did work the train from time to time. I seem to remember there’s a picture of one in the early fifties in the Banks and Carter book. Sometime in 1957 it change from a full kitchen car to a Thompson RF. nice video. I’m doing videos of all the trains for the article but I can’t show them on here yet.

 

I do find that some Hunt couplings slip out of the NEM pockets and as you say the magnets come out of the 3D printed bit. but that normally happens straightaway and can be fixed with a dab of cyano. Despite having checked it all at those before I left, I had two problems yesterday:

- some magnets came apart when the train jerked - I think this was exacerbated by the tendency for DCC locos to start suddenly when used on DC; and

- a couple pulled out of their NEM pockets. I think this was caused by the warm weather making the 3D printed resin go soft. I could have sorted it with some cyano…if I’d remembered to take it!

 

Andy

 

 

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