Whats on your 2mm Work bench

[Donw]

Looks to me like this may be the way to go. Nice job

 

Don

[John57sharp]

Having struggled and so far failed with the etched axle boxes, having these available as 3d prints would certainly interest me. I looked on Shapeways for the LNWR ones but couldn’t find any. Are they publicly available?

 

Cheers, and seasons greetings

John

[queensquare]

There was a rather strident thread on the 2mm email list ("VAG") over the last few days about the virtues of the current design of etched axle boxes and springs, which take quite a bit of assembly, versus looking for new approaches like 3D printing. 

 

I tried building some of etched axle boxes and found they produced a great result, and despite being easier to put together than many included on chassis kits, they were really more time consuming than I think is perhaps worth it for an axlebox. So, inspired by the "theoretical" VAG discussion, I decided to try out actually 3D printing some axleboxes. 

 

 Justin

Hi Justin, these 3D printed axleboxes look interesting though I wonder how much they would add to the cost of a wagon if produced commercially for the Association.

Im one of those who doesn't have a problem with the etched axleboxes. I like soldering and, like Jim, wasn't best impressed with the tone of the contribution of our Dutch friend. I read the original thread on the VAG and was surprised to discover that yourself and some others assembled the axleboxes away from the wagon and then attached them later which seemed like a time consuming and overly complex method to me.

I have to do some of the six wheel underframes for my SDJR brake vans in the next few weeks which have etched axleboxes so I will attempt to photograph what I do.

 

Jerry

[2mm Andy]

Having struggled and so far failed with the etched axle boxes, having these available as 3d prints would certainly interest me. I looked on Shapeways for the LNWR ones but couldn’t find any. Are they publicly available?

 

Cheers, and seasons greetings

John

 

I can't help re the LNWR ones, but as a general note, 3D printed springs and axleboxes should be available fairly soon via the Association shops. I've been working with Rumney Models to get some 2mm scale versions of his 4mm axleboxes/springs produced. The test prints worked well, and although things have been delayed by various distractions at my end, I'm hopeful that these will be available fairly soon, with an initial range covering grouping-era (including RCH) and BR wagons.

 

Regards and season's greetings.

 

Andy

[PaulCheffus]

I read the original thread on the VAG and was surprised to discover that yourself and some others assembled the axleboxes away from the wagon and then attached them later which seemed like a time consuming and overly complex method to me.

Jerry

Hi

 

It depends as some designers create the axle boxes and springs as a separate component that is made up of layers in a series of small frames (the Mermaid kit is an example of this). They are then added as a complete item to the chassis. Others are designed to be built up directly on the chassis itself.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

Edited December 24, 2018 by PaulCheffus

[Atso]

I've been designing a pair of ex-GNR J3s around other bits and pieces, making use of the N Gauge Peco Collett Goods spares that became available earlier this year.

 

 

The front locomotive will become LNER no. 4011 and the rear no. 4154, both of which were allocated to Hitchin in the 1930s. I would have liked to have modelled one of the examples allocated to Kings Cross but sadly, I've been unable to find any pictures of one of these and the J3/J4 classes are a minefield in terms of details. Both of these locomotives will be powered by heavily modified Union Mills tender drives with the wheels replaced with Peco ones. The motor will be swapped for a 716 motor to gain clearance for the larger wheels and hopefully make a bit more space for weight in the small Stirling designed tenders (when I get around to designing these). Getting sufficient clearance for the loco wheels and coupling rods while not straying too far from scale was 'fun'!

 

4154 is currently without wheels and coupling rods but I am hopeful that tomorrow may remedy that problem.

Edited December 24, 2018 by Atso

[Argos]

Having struggled and so far failed with the etched axle boxes, having these available as 3d prints would certainly interest me. I looked on Shapeways for the LNWR ones but couldn’t find any. Are they publicly available?

 

Cheers, and seasons greetings

John

 

Hi John,

 

The springs and axleboxes were from Coast Line Models run by Quarryscapes.

 

https://www.shapeways.com/shops/coastlinemodels?section=4mm+-+Cambrian+Railways+Rolling+Stock&s=0

 

http://www.coastlinemodels.co.uk/

 

They don't seem to be on his current shop so might be worth PMing him.

I am aware there has been some shenanigans with Shapeways changing price structure so the small batch might be uneconomic to produce.

 

He originally produced them in 4mm but re-scaled them to both 7mm and 2mm for me.

 

 

The D2 wagon second along has these springs and axleboxes.

 

[justin1985]

Hi

 

It depends as some designers create the axle boxes and springs as a separate component that is made up of layers in a series of small frames (the Mermaid kit is an example of this). They are then added as a complete item to the chassis. Others are designed to be built up directly on the chassis itself.

 

Cheers

 

Paul

 

Yup, I understood the thread on the VAG to be about the relatively new "standalone" axleboxes/springs 2-308 etc which I recall were introduced to replace the white metal ones.

 

These have a series of self-jigging frames that fold over (and even have 1mm holes for alignment pins/bearings to align). So they're clearly designed to be assembled as a unit and would probably be impossible to assemble directly on a wagon.

 

Obviously where a chassis design includes the axleboxes and springs, the springs are usually part of one of the solebars layers, and the rest of the axlebox folds over once or twice with half etched tabs, then I assemble that in situ!

 

J

[Chris Higgs]

Yup, I understood the thread on the VAG to be about the relatively new "standalone" axleboxes/springs 2-308 etc which I recall were introduced to replace the white metal ones.

 

These have a series of self-jigging frames that fold over (and even have 1mm holes for alignment pins/bearings to align). So they're clearly designed to be assembled as a unit and would probably be impossible to assemble directly on a wagon.

 

Obviously where a chassis design includes the axleboxes and springs, the springs are usually part of one of the solebars layers, and the rest of the axlebox folds over once or twice with half etched tabs, then I assemble that in situ!

 

J

 

As the provider of those etched axleboxes they were introduced at the request of the then chief shopkeeper to replace the cast ones, as items are not just about their technical specification but also cost, and relability of supply (which in the case of the cast ones seeming to be 'not very' at the time). I didn't consider them superior, but at least do-able.The etched ones do not really reproduce the true depth of the prototype boxes even in 2mm scale and I like the look of the 3D-printed ones. I did some printed ones of my own albeit of some heavyweight examples for a lowmac.

 

You are always at liberty to combine materials and given that it is the springs on the 3D-printed items that look the most fragile I would have thought etched springs combined with printed axleboxes might be sensible - and would need the least modification to the majority of chassis available from the Association. BTW, there is no obligation to take any particular item off an etch and use it just because it is there.

 

And it is worth pointing out that a modeller who has access to a home 3D-printer may well have a different opinion of what is easiest as compared to the man with only a soldering iron in the toolbox. Relying on Shapeways for your stuff has been a bumpy ride in terms at least of cost over the last few months.

 

Chris

Edited December 24, 2018 by Chris Higgs

[Chris Higgs]

I like soldering and, like Jim, wasn't best impressed with the tone of the contribution of our Dutch friend.

 

Jerry

 

Whoever could you be referring to ?!! Still, it could hardly have come as a surprise.

 

Chris

Edited December 24, 2018 by Chris Higgs

[justin1985]

As the provider of those etched axleboxes they were introduced at the request of the then chief shopkeeper to replace the cast ones, as items are not just about their technical specification but also cost, and relability of supply (which in the case of the cast ones seeming to be 'not very' at the time). I didn't consider them superior, but at least do-able.The etched ones do not really reproduce the true depth of the prototype boxes even in 2mm scale and I like the look of the 3D-printed ones. I did some printed ones of my own albeit of some heavyweight examples for a lowmac.

 

You are always at liberty to combine materials and given that it is the springs on the 3D-printed items that look the most fragile I would have thought etched springs combined with printed axleboxes might be sensible - and would need the least modification to the majority of chassis available from the Association. BTW, there is no obligation to take any particular item off an etch and use it just because it is there.

 

Thanks for the background to this Chris - I gather that people willing/able to undertake high quality whitemetal casting are very few and far between these days, so I can certainly see why this was the preferred solution. 

 

And it certainly is a high quality design - no faulting that! As you suggest, having access to a 3D printer suddenly swaps around your sense what is the easier solution. The handful of times I'd used Shapeways for my own designs something always turned out to be wrong, so with the cost and cost of shipping, it never seemed worth it. Whereas when you can experiment at home, it's a different story. 

 

All of the printed springs that I cut before curing survived fine, although some extra supports that I cut after curing did end up leading to some failures. As you say though, etched springs with printed boxes would be an ideal solution - best material for the job and all!

 

J 

[Caley Jim]

I like soldering and, like Jim, wasn't best impressed with the tone of the contribution of our Dutch friend.

 

Whoever could you be referring to ?!! Still, it could hardly have come as a surprise.

 

I have been becoming increasingly irritated by the said gentleman's derogatory comments over a number of years, but I'm afraid his latest pushed me over the edge, especially as he was denigrating a friend to whom I had been giving some help and advice.

 

As the provider of those etched axleboxes they were introduced at the request of the then chief shopkeeper to replace the cast ones, as items are not just about their technical specification but also cost, and relability of supply (which in the case of the cast ones seeming to be 'not very' at the time). 

As the person who made the original masters for the separate axleboxes and springs, can I explain that the reason for the unreliability of supply of the castings was due to the caster taking ill and deciding to give up.  His equipment was old and the moulds didn't fit other casting machines.

 

Jim

 

Edited to add A very Merry Christmas to you all.  Hope Santa brings you all your modelling requirements (round tuits top of my list again this year)

Edited December 24, 2018 by Caley Jim

[Donw]

I have been fortunate to have been aquainted with some very highly regarded modellers who would be encouragng to others of less experience and might gently suggest different methods rather than condeming them.  One wonders what he feels he has to prove.

I would suggest Caley Jim's advice would be much more valuable.

 

Don

 

ps best wishes to all for 2019

[John57sharp]

I can't help re the LNWR ones, but as a general note, 3D printed springs and axleboxes should be available fairly soon via the Association shops. I've been working with Rumney Models to get some 2mm scale versions of his 4mm axleboxes/springs produced. The test prints worked well, and although things have been delayed by various distractions at my end, I'm hopeful that these will be available fairly soon, with an initial range covering grouping-era (including RCH) and BR wagons.

 

Regards and season's greetings.

 

Andy

That’s great news thanks Andy. All the very best.

 

John

[Chris Higgs]

I have been becoming increasingly irritated by the said gentleman's derogatory comments over a number of years, but I'm afraid his latest pushed me over the edge, especially as he was denigrating a friend to whom I had been giving some help and advice.

 

As the person who made the original masters for the separate axleboxes and springs, can I explain that the reason for the unreliability of supply of the castings was due to the caster taking ill and deciding to give up.  His equipment was old and the moulds didn't fit other casting machines.

 

Jim

 

Edited to add A very Merry Christmas to you all.  Hope Santa brings you all your modelling requirements (round tuits top of my list again this year)

 

I may be wrong, but I think the etched axleboxes were introduced when the very old castings (the combined RCH springs and axleboxes of fond memory) became unavailable. The etched replacements never aspired to match the broad range of options that Jim's casting masters covered and were really just a reworking of artwork already found on various etched chassis.

 

If we can still find people able to do castings then 3D-printing also opens up a new way to make masters for them.

 

Santa is bringing me a book on the Golden Arrow Pullman coaches. Hmm...

 

Chris

Edited December 25, 2018 by Chris Higgs

[RichardW1]

Well Justin’s trials, and developments in my work, have enabled me to acquire a 3D printer as well. Something I have always stood back from, as producing a ‘blurry photo’ rather than a crisp model. However I am truly impressed and I feel sure that growing numbers of people will acquire similar technologies. In the next year or so. As a first project I have made a L&Y ‘pitch’ wagon, here is a picture of the first one, painted. Chassis to come next, not printed but etched, although I may look st the axle boxes too.

[RichardW1]

Well Justin’s trials, and developments at work, have convinced me to acquire a 3D printer as well. Something I have always stood back from them as producing a ‘blurry photo’ rather than a crisp model. However I am truly impressed with the Anycubic Photon and I feel sure that growing numbers of people will acquire similar technologies in the next year or so.

As a first project I have made a L&Y ‘pitch’ wagon, here is a picture of the first one, painted. Chassis to come next, not printed but etched, although I may look at the axle boxes too.

The 3D model was produced using Sketchup.

[D869]

I can't help re the LNWR ones, but as a general note, 3D printed springs and axleboxes should be available fairly soon via the Association shops. I've been working with Rumney Models to get some 2mm scale versions of his 4mm axleboxes/springs produced. The test prints worked well, and although things have been delayed by various distractions at my end, I'm hopeful that these will be available fairly soon, with an initial range covering grouping-era (including RCH) and BR wagons.

 

Regards and season's greetings.

 

Andy

 

I've seen 'em but didn't want to let the cat out of the bag before (AFAIK) anybody else had said anything in public.

 

They are excellent. The sooner the better as far as I am concerned and thanks to all involved in making it happen.

 

Regards, Andy

[Crosland]

Well Justin’s trials, and developments at work, have convinced me to acquire a 3D printer as well. Something I have always stood back from them as producing a ‘blurry photo’ rather than a crisp model. However I am truly impressed with the Anycubic Photon and I feel sure that growing numbers of people will acquire similar technologies in the next year or so.

As a first project I have made a L&Y ‘pitch’ wagon, here is a picture of the first one, painted. Chassis to come next, not printed but etched, although I may look at the axle boxes too.

The 3D model was produced using Sketchup.

071CB63D-12CE-40C1-8002-D45F37F5ACFB.jpeg

 

NIce Which printer?

[John57sharp]

Well Justin’s trials, and developments in my work, have enabled me to acquire a 3D printer as well. Something I have always stood back from, as producing a ‘blurry photo’ rather than a crisp model. However I am truly impressed and I feel sure that growing numbers of people will acquire similar technologies. In the next year or so. As a first project I have made a L&Y ‘pitch’ wagon, here is a picture of the first one, painted. Chassis to come next, not printed but etched, although I may look st the axle boxes too. 071CB63D-12CE-40C1-8002-D45F37F5ACFB.jpeg

That looks super. Well done.

 

John

[Doncaster Green]

After seeing the superb modelling that gets posted on this thread I normally like to hide my tiny light under a very large bushel.   However, a few weeks ago I posted a couple of pictures of a Gresley Diag 250 artic twin (Bk3/Full 3) that was almost ready to leave the 'erecting shop' (v. untidy desk in back bedroom) for the 'paint shop' (currently not located anywhere!).   Encouraged by the positive reactions I received, for which many thanks, I have decided to post a couple of pictures of the next projects on the bench.

 

First up is a Gresley Diag 50 Semi Corridor Lavatory Composite in panelled teak.   This has yet to receive its proper clean up so please excuse some of the rough bits!

 

 

The second is the Diag 299 steel panelled version of the same beast (the LNER was very fond of this layout for outer suburban non gangwayed sets).   As this coach is flush sided I have modified it to include representations of the door hinges.   As before this coach is yet to receive its full clean up so please excuse the tatty bits.   You will notice that this coach has toplights above the doors rather than hooded ventilators and therein lies a tale of the benefit of research!   Evidently, when Gresley signed off the original drawings for the steel panelled stock he reverted to toplights although all new build teak stock had ventilator hoods.   The change to hoods was not approved apparently until 1939 and, even then, some stock was still built with toplights.   The Diag 299 is a case in point - on Steve Banks web site there is a picture of a Diag 299 built at York in 1940 with toplights.   This being the case, I have had to revisit the Diag 250 twin and remove the hoods as the four Diag 250 sets were built in 1937 by outside contractors (Pickerings) who I suspect built as per drawings.

 

 

Mention of door hinges above leads me to a dilemma.   On the bench currently is another Diag 250 twin to complete a five coach set (two Diags 250 with the Diag 299 between them) and it has reached the stage where I have to prep the sides and I am debating whether to do the hinges or not - there are a LOT more hinges on a third class twin!   In an attempt to solve my dilemma I took the third picture - the Diag 299 posed against the original Diag 250 which has hot had the hinges fitted.   When painted will they actually be noticed form normal viewing distances - these are meant as 'layout coaches' ( a term Tony Wright uses on his thread) rather than glass case museum pieces.   I would appreciate anyones' thoughts on this.   I certainly won't be fitting them to teak panelled stock, but with steel panelled and the flush sided Thompson stock I am undecided.   If I decide to fit them I will need to ask Chris Higgs if he has any Diag 250 etches left as the completed one will be an absolute pain to modify

 

 

 

[Caley Jim]

These lower hinges are one of what I would describe as 'significant details', details which are obvious if they are missing. They break up the smooth lower surface, so you notice of they are missing.

 

My take on these things.

 

Jim

[Doncaster Green]

These lower hinges are one of what I would describe as 'significant details', details which are obvious if they are missing. They break up the smooth lower surface, so you notice of they are missing.

 

My take on these things.

 

Jim

 

I tend to agree - thanks Jim.

 

I'm not sure the upper hinges are that noticeable, but the lower ones certainly are.   It also helps if they are all in line!   I now see one is slightly higher than the rest!  Oh well!

 

John

[Atso]

After seeing the superb modelling that gets posted on this thread I normally like to hide my tiny light under a very large bushel.   However, a few weeks ago I posted a couple of pictures of a Gresley Diag 250 artic twin (Bk3/Full 3) that was almost ready to leave the 'erecting shop' (v. untidy desk in back bedroom) for the 'paint shop' (currently not located anywhere!).   Encouraged by the positive reactions I received, for which many thanks, I have decided to post a couple of pictures of the next projects on the bench.

 

First up is a Gresley Diag 50 Semi Corridor Lavatory Composite in panelled teak.   This has yet to receive its proper clean up so please excuse some of the rough bits!

 

DSC00789.JPG

 

The second is the Diag 299 steel panelled version of the same beast (the LNER was very fond of this layout for outer suburban non gangwayed sets).   As this coach is flush sided I have modified it to include representations of the door hinges.   As before this coach is yet to receive its full clean up so please excuse the tatty bitsDSC00789.JPG.   You will notice that this coach has toplights above the doors rather than hooded ventilators and therein lies a tale of the benefit of research!   Evidently, when Gresley signed off the original drawings for the steel panelled stock he reverted to toplights although all new build teak stock had ventilator hoods.   The change to hoods was not approved apparently until 1939 and, even then, some stock was still built with toplights.   The Diag 299 is a case in point - on Steve Banks web site there is a picture of a Diag 299 built at York in 1940 with toplights.   This being the case, I have had to revisit the Diag 250 twin and remove the hoods as the four Diag 250 sets were built in 1937 by outside contractors (Pickerings) who I suspect built as per drawings.

 

DSC00796.JPG

 

Mention of door hinges above leads me to a dilemma.   On the bench currently is another Diag 250 twin to complete a five coach set (two Diags 250 with the Diag 299 between them) and it has reached the stage where I have to prep the sides and I am debating whether to do the hinges or not - there are a LOT more hinges on a third class twin!   In an attempt to solve my dilemma I took the third picture - the Diag 299 posed against the original Diag 250 which has hot had the hinges fitted.   When painted will they actually be noticed form normal viewing distances - these are meant as 'layout coaches' ( a term Tony Wright uses on his thread) rather than glass case museum pieces.   I would appreciate anyones' thoughts on this.   I certainly won't be fitting them to teak panelled stock, but with steel panelled and the flush sided Thompson stock I am undecided.   If I decide to fit them I will need to ask Chris Higgs if he has any Diag 250 etches left as the completed one will be an absolute pain to modify

 

DSC00797.JPG

Wonderful work John! I do love the look that an etched model of a Gresley teak coach has. Steel panelled stock always looks wrong to me until painted - I guess it is the plain sides that does it. What livery will these little gems end up in?

[Doncaster Green]

Wonderful work John! I do love the look that an etched model of a Gresley teak coach has. Steel panelled stock always looks wrong to me until painted - I guess it is the plain sides that does it. What livery will these little gems end up in?

 

Thanks Steve.

 

Livery will be either crimson or maroon.   The layout they are being built for has a time period that can't be earlier than 1956 due to the inclusion of one particular, very prominent, building.   The Diag 299 picture I mentioned is, almost certainly, unlined maroon.   I know some teak stock survived long enough to receive an overhaul and repaint in the late 50s and the steel stock also.   I will be studying Hugh Longworth's book on pre-nationalisation stock and deciding which livery on the basis of withdrawal dates and, thus, the likelihood of late 50s overhaul and trawling every source I can think of for photographic evidence.

 

John