Rabs Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 Will do. I'll get the primer out this evening. In the meantime here are some microscope images which show things a bit more clearly. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold queensquare Posted October 2, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 2, 2013 They look fantastic - light years ahead of the cast wheels we have been used to. Jerry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
richbrummitt Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I too have some (far fewer than Jerry, I'm sure) whitemetal traction engines that would be much improved with some new wheels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 So, we have an answer to the question of whether the B9 can print scale wing mirrors in 2mm: Unfortunately the door handles didn't quite make it but I'll thicken them slightly and try again. I also added some detail the the chassis and combined the cab base, chassis and rear body into one part. Note the added steering wheel and starter handle mount. There are also some 0.1mm bolts to hold the planking together but you can't seem them in this photo. The front bumper is from this photo: http://www.favcars.com/foden-dg4-6-1946-images-52037.htm I might try to print the grille and the 'Foden' logo which goes on top of it. I doubt the lettering will come out but it will be fun to try. Here is an image of the tweaked design this this is printed from (Click for a bigger view where you can actually see things): Successes were: Wing mirrors, steering wheel, rivets, bumper detail, door knobs, side lights, radiator water top-up point and the cab roof ridges. Failures were: Horizontal windscreen division, door handles. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 You can do that with FUD too, it's just too fragile to be practical. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 I don't think you can. The wing mirror and the arm supporting it are only 0.2mm thick and FUD has a minimum unsupported strut of 0.6mm. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Yes you can, Shapeways doesn't allow it because it is so fragile and breaks when being shipped. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 So, if they won't let you how can you? #confused# Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 By using one of the other specialists who do the material Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Oh crikey! Rabs has got a 3D printer of his own, he is trying it out to see what it is capable of. There is no need for the 'my machine is better than yours' brigade to try and belittle what Rabs is doing. Who cares what Shapeways is capable of, this thread is for Rabs and his B9 printer. I originally tried to get the Foden printed at Shapeways and gave up after 4 attempts. Now if they couldnt, didnt want to, or were scared to, the result was the same, I couldnt order one and get it printed - END OF! Rabs gave the printing a go with his own machine and after seeing the results for myself I can say it easily beats anything I have had produced by Shapeways in detail and also quality. Missy. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 By using one of the other specialists who do the material Ah, ok. Not heard of others who do a service accessible to hobbyists. Would you mind posting some links? Also, I really don't mind people making comparisons with other printers. In fact, that's one of the reasons I started the thread because I was interested to see the comparison with other machines. Of course there are machines out there that can do as well or better - I'd be pretty worried if the mainstream printer manufacturers were unable to make a machine for £100's of thousands that couldn't beat the one made by a man in a shed for £2000. I'm not here to evangelise or to say that this machine is better/worse than any others. I didn't know what would be possible when I started. I'm now convinced that this printer is good enough for the standard of modelling that I want to achieve and that it was a good purchase but that's it. I'm not saying it's doing anything that other machines can't (although I'm not aware of any that are viable for an individual to buy). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 I've uploaded some photos of some early FUD models. Most of these broke either while they were being painted or with subsequent handling. They seemed to get more brittle as time went on. Over the two years since these were done I have come to the conclusion that these types of photo-acrylic resins are not suitable for direct modelling, though they can be useful for patten making. It maybe that some of the newer ABS type resins will have a place, but I have had no experience of them as yet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
trustytrev Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Hello, Missy and Rabs,What 3d software did you use to make the drawings for printing?I have been looking at Blender but wondered if there was something more suited to just 3D drawing without the extra complication for animation that comes with Blender. trustytrev. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
-missy- Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 Hello Trev. I use Autodesk Inventor. It has the advantage of modelling solids rather than surfaces which to me, makes producing models lots easier and simpler. Sadly though its not a cheap bit of software to buy, you might be lucky and find an old version on the cheap or alternatively if you are a university student you can get a license for free. Missy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Etched Pixels Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 FUD is like a lot of resins - unpainted and unsealed it gets more brittle with time and solar exposure. It should be painted inside and out to seal it entirely. If you want a small near indestructible model then they are now doing lost wax brass printing with similar constraints. Pricey but not horrendous and looks ideal for making casting masters. May have to try printing some bogies in it just to see. WSF in comparison is a nylon material and should have long term stability without sealing, but will still want painting if you are going to leave it out in the sun. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 2, 2013 Author Share Posted October 2, 2013 Depending on what I'm modelling and what mood I'm in I either use sketchup or solidworks. One is free, fast but can be limiting. The other is expensive and takes time to learn but produces professional results in the right hands. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
billbedford Posted October 2, 2013 Share Posted October 2, 2013 FUD is like a lot of resins - unpainted and unsealed it gets more brittle with time and solar exposure. It should be painted inside and out to seal it entirely. If you want a small near indestructible model then they are now doing lost wax brass printing with similar constraints. Pricey but not horrendous and looks ideal for making casting masters. May have to try printing some bogies in it just to see. I asked one of the 3D Systems' engineers about FUD at TCT last week and he said that there is nothing you could do to stop either the shrinkage or the increased brittleness, nor could you post-cure the stuff to bring forward the changes. WSF is about good enough for roofs in 4mm scale -- and some rock faces. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howard Posted October 3, 2013 Share Posted October 3, 2013 As for selling parts, I'm afraid not. I'm happy to make the odd bit here and there, particularly if the prototype is of interest for my layout, but as a business it's just not how I want to spend my time. I've already got one new business on the go at the moment! I understand your position here, but its such a shame that you (and Missy) are tempting us with such delights as traction engine wheels and fully detailed Fodens. The Shapeways business plan is a good idea (although I've never understood why some designs are not for sale), so I guess we will have to wait until they catch up with your work. If I were a lot younger I might get myself a 3D printer like yours, but I'm devoting enough time to laser cutting as it is. Of course I could always stop looking, but I do enjoy seeing the delightful models that Missy comes up with. Keep on pushing the boundaries both of you! Howard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 As requested, here is the traction engine wheel with a coat of primer. I was in a hurry and got bit hasty with the spray can (didn't warm and shake it enough) so the paint finish isn't perfect I'm afraid. The speckling is from the paint, not the printing. The graph paper is 1mm squares. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 3, 2013 Author Share Posted October 3, 2013 I've uploaded some photos of some early FUD models. Most of these broke either while they were being painted or with subsequent handling. They seemed to get more brittle as time went on. Over the two years since these were done I have come to the conclusion that these types of photo-acrylic resins are not suitable for direct modelling, though they can be useful for patten making. It maybe that some of the newer ABS type resins will have a place, but I have had no experience of them as yet. I've never actually handled any FUD so I'd be very interested to compare its mechanical properties to the resin I'm using. Does anyone have any scraps or broken bits that they'd be willing to stick in the post for me? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rabs Posted October 19, 2013 Author Share Posted October 19, 2013 Some more goodies. Julia's Morris van just off the printer and ready for painting and assembly (spot the steering wheel) All in all, a productive day as I also made good progress on my layout while this was printing (http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72424-bath-spa-high-tech-modelling-bringing-1947-into-the-21st-century-3d-printed-scenery-cnc-milled-track-laser-cut-baseboards-and-computer-control/page-6) . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted October 19, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 19, 2013 Excellent Rabs! I got mine through the post yesterday so thank you very much. It was all intact and everything. As a result I have a couple of quick questions before I make a start on it... What is the best way of breaking/cutting off the supports? What is the best glue to use when sticking the parts together? Thanks Missy P.S. If you ever do anymore then I am more than willing to take them off your hands, even faulty / incomplete ones! There are a few variations that I would love to do... Having seen Missy's completed Foden today at the Didcot show I was mightily impressed both with the construction but also the detail & finish of the printing (and as it happened I had taken along a magnifying glass with me which made it all the more impressive) - clearly an area where modelling is taking some tremendous steps forward. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Some impressive work in his thread. Great to see. 3D printing is something that interests me, I keep meaning to refresh my CAD skills (not used CAD since uni in the late 90s (Autocad)) and try my hand at it as there is plenty of Railway and Aviation subjects I'd like to see modelled (usually the oddball or prototype!). Once I finally manage to get access to my desktop computer (having just moved) hopefully I'll be able to make a start... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penrhos1920 Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 The question is do you polish your Autocad or learn something new. Student editions of autocad 2014 with a 3 year license appear on ebay for £10 so its not too expensive. But I don't think it can easily do complex 3D curves and surfaces that curve in every direction. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tricky-CRS Posted October 19, 2013 Share Posted October 19, 2013 Hi Dave PM me your address and I'll send you some FUD. About time I joined in on this thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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