Phil Brighton Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 I am looking at doing a layout based on Welwyn North in the late 1930s but am not entirely sure what the track plan would have looked like in that period. I have a track plan from 1908 where which is far more extensive in terms of the number of sidings than this one (below) from early 70s (before it was cut right back to what it is today). I know sidings on the east side leading to a cattle pen by the tunnel mouth went in 1935 but am not sure if the whole station was pruned back then or not. Anyone got any ideas? Thanks Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
rs4 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Hi Phil Sorry, I have no info for you. I'm replying as you have solved the issue in my mind each time I pass Welwyn North - the signs of previous track to the south of the station (well, space for it). Thanks.... And good luck with your project.. Nick Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Phil, Have a look at Old Maps UK, coordinates 524699 215436 map date 1937-1939 scale 1:2,500 should give you an good idea of what was there. Looks to me as if your plan is about right, if you reinstate the sidings marked with a dotted line... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Brighton Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks very much for that - what a useful site. It looks like the track plan was the more complex one in the 35-39 period as you can see far more cross overs on the south end. Not sure when it was stripped down to the track plan I posted above as all the sidings have gone by the 1972 map on Old Maps. I may have to go for the stripped down plan as the cost of points will get out of hand with all those crossovers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Modeller Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 "The Book Of The Great Northern" by Peter Coster has some nice photos and a diagram just pre-war. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Brighton Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 Thanks, I will see if I can track down a copy. While I am here does anyone recognise the magazine this came from? - I think it is a BRM or Model Rail but would like to track down a back issue. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold chris p bacon Posted July 31, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted July 31, 2013 I think its from BRM ? I'm sure there was an East Coast edition a couple of years ago, or something like that. As Mem Sec of the Great Northern Railway Society, there is lots of information within the society and a few members who are already modelling Welwyn North (inc P4) , all for the princely sum of £20 (a year). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 This about covers the bit you are modelling. If you want the other half i can supply.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Brighton Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 I didnt expect so much help so quickly! I wll certainly look into the GN society Chris sounds like a good idea. Do you have date for the signalling diagram? Its the other end that is in question though I am pretty sure the crossovers in question where there in the late 30s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Kazmierczak Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Your original track plan came from an issue of the MRC; either 1965 (I think) or early 1966. There were illustrations to accompany it. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 You may be able to glean something from this.. http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/MoT_Digswell1931.pdf The other half of the diagram, sorry it's the best image i have.. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Brighton Posted August 6, 2013 Author Share Posted August 6, 2013 Thanks again. Do you know the date of the diagram? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Joseph_Pestell Posted August 6, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted August 6, 2013 Pity about that big viaduct! Otherwise a nice compact mainline station with plenty of operating potential. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted August 24, 2013 Share Posted August 24, 2013 Thanks, I will see if I can track down a copy. While I am here does anyone recognise the magazine this came from? - I think it is a BRM or Model Rail but would like to track down a back issue. One significant mistake on this plan, which appears to show two gentle curves in the running lines. The main line was ruler straight across the viaduct, through the station and on, through the two tunnels. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Cocks Junction Posted August 25, 2013 Share Posted August 25, 2013 The following notes should cover all removals of main line connections at Welwyn North:- 1953 Connection Up Main – Down Siding out (Crossover No. 8 nearest to viaduct) 10th NOVEMBER 1963 Connection Down Main - Down Sidings North taken out of use pending removal. By 11-17/09/1965 Connection No. 1 Down Siding and former Goods Shed line removed leaving the outlet points to Down Main as trap points. 31st DECEMBER 1967 The following connections secured out of use pending removal:- Trailing connection from Down Main line to Down Sidings. Trailing connection from Up Main line to Up Sidings. Slip connection from Down Main line to up Sidings. Sidings removed subsequently. 7 APRIL 1968 Trailing crossover between the Down and Up Main lines reinstated approximately 50 feet further south. 14 to 15 SEPTEMBER 1973 Welwyn North signal box switched out pending closure, and the following connections secured out of use pending removal:- Welwyn North Main to Main trailing crossover 14-17 SEPTEMBER 1973 Welwyn North signal box abolished together with all points and signals worked therefrom. The trailing main to main crossover at Welwyn North abolished. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Brighton Posted August 26, 2013 Author Share Posted August 26, 2013 Thanks for that - pretty comprehensive! So for late 1930s the track plan is as the 1908 one except for the cattle pen sidings on the tunnel end. Whether I am able to model in like this is another matter, its a lot of point work to fit in and pay for. As for the curves in the running lines Chaz you are right, the station is dead straight as far as I can tell. I will have to put a 90 degree bend in however as the shrunken version of the viaduct I am planning will have to run along a different wall. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 Pity about that big viaduct! Otherwise a nice compact mainline station with plenty of operating potential. Cunningly resited into a modified gap between Welwyn North and South tunnels (preferred summer 'watch the trains go by' viewing position of my childhood ) the neat little layout now has a tunnel mouth each end... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Gerbil-Fritters Posted August 28, 2013 Share Posted August 28, 2013 £8.50 gets you started with the station buildings too Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Brighton Posted September 8, 2013 Author Share Posted September 8, 2013 Well I was planning to scratch build the buildings but may well take a look at that card kit even if it is replaced at a later date. I seem to we the help above got the track plan in the 1930s worked out, even if I have to trim it a bit to fit. I was thinking about what locomotives would have been seen on this part of the ECML in the 1930s as my work on getting the loft sorted has faltered. Certainly I think, A1 A3 A4 C1 C2 O4 O2 K3 J6 P1 I expect N1 N2 N7 D2 C12 J52 J50 D16 (from Cambridge, but was this generally just the Royal ones? Would a D16/3 have been seen?) I have seen reference to B12 B17 P2 (On trials) C4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
chaz Posted September 10, 2013 Share Posted September 10, 2013 Well I was planning to scratch build the buildings but may well take a look at that card kit even if it is replaced at a later date. I seem to we the help above got the track plan in the 1930s worked out, even if I have to trim it a bit to fit. I was thinking about what locomotives would have been seen on this part of the ECML in the 1930s as my work on getting the loft sorted has faltered. Certainly I think, A1 A3 A4 C1 C2 O4 O2 K3 J6 P1 I expect N1 N2 N7 D2 C12 J52 J50 D16 (from Cambridge, but was this generally just the Royal ones? Would a D16/3 have been seen?) I have seen reference to B12 B17 P2 (On trials) C4 A few observations on your loco classes list... The J50s did not appear in the London area until the war years, when they started to replace the J52s - in any case these two 0-6-0 tank classes were largely confined to shunting in the yards at Ferme Park etc and to cross London trip freights. Their forays up the main would have been limited to trips to Doncaster for overhaul. The N7s would be very unlikely at Welwyn North - I know a few were at Hatfield but they worked the branches (Hertford, St Albans, Luton) Now, you may already be aware of this.... British Railways Illustrated Annual #9 contains an article about both of the stations, Welwyn N & Welwyn G C. There are 16 photos of Welwyn N and a 1950s track plan showing all the layout intact, including the trailing connection from the goods shed to the down line - but without the cattle sidings which used to be on the up side to the N of the platform. hope that's some help Chaz edited for the intro' date of the J50s Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jondi Posted May 22, 2015 Share Posted May 22, 2015 If you are still looking for a track plan Welwyn North, the book Welwyn's Railways contains a simple plan of the station c.1907 (and a couple of signaling diagrams). The narrow gauge railway had gone by 1909 and the track plan had been simplified a little by the late 30s. The up cattle sidings went in 1935 and I think there was some simplification in the down sidings--the crossing seen in the 1908 photo (also in the book) is different in the 1931 signaling diagram. Ordnance Survey maps are a great source, and the Britain From Above website includes several aerial photos of the area 1928-39, the best of which was taken in July 1937 and shows the whole station complex and the beehive works. You can see a wagon on the timber yard spur and one of Payne's wagons in the down sidings and the up platform canopy extension looks very new! I am also modeling Welwyn North, but in N gauge and c.1925-35. I grew up in the area and for a few years lived nearbye and commuted from there. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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