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FRIARY GREEN


6029 King Stephen

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Well here goes. For as long as I can remember I have always been drawn to building a layout based on Plymouth Friary, hence the use of an alternative name, Friary Green, mooted by the LSWR for their new terminus in Plymouth. The station had been built on the site of a friary in the Eastern part of the city in opposite Beaumont Park, close to the St Judes area. Being a Plymothian, my initial allegiance was to the GWR but although I do have some GWR locos, there is something about the Bulleid Pacifics that has appealed to me.

 

Over the years I have tried to represent the station in N and OO gauge without success but after a visit to Plymouth library some years ago, I was able to get a copy of the Ordnance Survey map of the station and MPD for 1938. Suddenly it didn't seem impossible if tackled as a long term project and an aerial photo from the same year showed the potential. The only concern was the width of the boards at the terminus end and getting access - it might be up to 8 feet deep at this end. I have opted for OO gauge using C&L plastic track components mixed in places with bullhead and copperclad sleepers. I have also chosen steel bullhead rail.

 

The next discovery was Templot. Although not cheap at the time, £46 seemed like a good investment because I had decided at that time that I wouldn't be satisfied using Peco and would like build my own track. I already had the book about building track by Ian Rice and had read the articles by Norman Solomon in the MRJ in 2003 and been buying C&L components and was trying to build track. There were a lot if disasters but I persevered and then bought the Right Track DVD on track work and I was able to pause it as I built track with Norman showing me how. Finally, a successfully completed point!

 

Since then I have scanned the OS maps into Templot and have been fitting 'track' into position and saving them. I am still no expert on Templot and there have been a few areas where plain track joins to a point and the connection hasn't been quite straight but I view the printouts as guides and use track gauges and a mirror to ensure that things are right when I build sections.

 

The overall plan is in my head and I envisage at some date the layout will be housed in a shed measuring 20 feet by 10 feet but each part will be built in manageable sections. So far I have two board frames built. One is 4 feet by 2 feet and the other is 6 feet by 2 feet. I will be using 3mm closed cell foam obtained from Phil at Hobby Holidays (recommended by Norman Solomon - so good enough for me!).

 

Trying to economise I decided to use 2mm thick foam called "fab foam" from Hobby Craft which early tests with seemed to demonstrate a future as a track bed. It cost 80p a sheet in black but was also available as a pack of 10 for £5. The downside was that it came in lurid colours - in fact when I stood the boards up on end, my neighbours might have thought I was interested in some abstract modern art. At the weekend I decided to lay the first parts of the terminus tracks and spent some time soldering PCB to the rails near the board ends and cutting plain track to fit. I was now ready to fix the track down and wanting straight edges to the ballasting I used paper masking tape to form an edge. I then spread Febond PVA (obtainable from Tool Station) over the foam and placed the track into position. Once satisfied, I covered the track work with Woodland Scenics fine grey ballast, waited about 5 minutes and then hoovered it up. Overall it looked pretty good with a few thin places that would need touching in where the bright yellow foam base was coming through. Then disaster struck! As I removed the masking tape it started splitting and removing the foam base. To add insult, I had managed to lay track and ballast over the masking tape edging! The only thing to do was lift all the track and set it aside so that the PVA would dry and try to remove the foam so that I could unscrew the board from the frame. I then screwed a fresh piece of ply and decided to use a piece of 5mm thick foam that I had bought previously. This was also a failure because the foam would not stick to the board using PVA despite loads of weights placed on it. Once again I decided to abort.

 

Third time lucky I'm thinking, so I contacted Norman Solomon at Quarntock Models to find out where to obtain the foam demonstrated in the Right Track 10 DVD. He pointed me towards Hobby Holidays and I have ordered a sheet of 3mm foam, 2m x 1m for £13.60. Once it has arrived and I have managed to glue it down and do the track laying and ballasting as per the DVD, then I will strip the larger board of its fab foam and get a few more sheets of foam from Phil and carry on with the layout building. I took some photos using the fab foam and will upload these once I have worked out how to do it. I will also try to upload the Templot plans so that you have an idea of what the end goal is. If it is intended to fit in a shed eventually, then the plan is for the main station and throat to go along one wall and around the end and then the MPD and Cattewater branch to go along the other long wall. The main line will then go down an incline and then into a tunnel and under the terminus boards. What happens then has not yet been decided; either a loop around the walls with fiddle yards or into a Denny style traverser.

 

I will try to update this thread as I progress - most modelling is done at weekends when my wife is working. 7 hours at a weekend to spend on modelling can be bliss but I am also reliant on the weather being favourable.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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Hopefully, three photos showing the lurid fab foam colours.  These baseboard tops with foam remnants have gone to the skip and will be replaced with new boards of 9mm ply covered in the 3mm foam obtained from Hobby Holidays.  Then it will be tracklaying again and fitting of a couple of Tortoise point motors on the first board.  I also need to remove the webs between the sleepers on the plain track so that the ballast goes down easier.

 

I cannot seem to upload the photos because they are 2.82 to 3.17 mb each.  Any tips on how to compress them so that they can be uploaded?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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  • RMweb Gold

Hopefully, three photos showing the lurid fab foam colours.  These baseboard tops with foam remnants have gone to the skip and will be replaced with new boards of 9mm ply covered in the 3mm foam obtained from Hobby Holidays.  Then it will be tracklaying again and fitting of a couple of Tortoise point motors on the first board.  I also need to remove the webs between the sleepers on the plain track so that the ballast goes down easier.

 

I cannot seem to upload the photos because they are 2.82 to 3.17 mb each.  Any tips on how to compress them so that they can be uploaded?

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Steve, I don't know what file format your pictures are in, or what computer you use, but if they are .jpg or .jpeg files, and you are using Windows, you can open them in Windows Paint and resize them and save them. If you save them as a different file name, then you can keep the full size ones, and post the new small ones.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Al

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I sought advice on re-sizing photos in a separate help topic and have found out about this site's image editor so I'll use that later to upload the photos of the aborted fab foam covered boards and the new board covered in grey 3mm foam. I will hopefully get the track laid and ballasted today on the first board. I need more foam for the next couple of boards.

 

My timescale is quite broad and will cover about 1939 to present day - to assume that it is now a preserved line. I have always fancied the idea of modelling the townscape as post-war damaged but will have to alter the time-frame as I move around the layout so that it becomes modern day at the other end - near where the MPD will be. I haven't quite thought out how this will work yet but I have a lot of military vehicle kits from WW2 to present day land rovers etc that I would like to have on the layout.

 

Anyway, it is very early days at the moment, so that is some time off yet. This is to be my "layout of a lifetime" so there is no rush to get it finished. I hope to create something that works and has the ambience of Plymouth Friary.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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OK, hopefully I can now upload some pictures taken to show the initial start and after that was aborted, the second attempt to get going on board 1.  As mentioned earlier, I was trying to save money by using fab foam obtained from Hobby Craft in a 10-pack of quite lurid colours.  This failed after laying some track and doing ballasting when the paper masking tape I had used to define the edges of the sleepers ripped up the foam on removal.  To add insult to injury, some areas of the foam were stuck to the ply baseboard pretty well and were impossible to remove.  The solution was to expose the screws, remove the baseboard top and take it to the tip.  The same procedure was used for baseboard 2.

 

After this I contacted Norman Solomon to ask where I could source the 3mm foam demonstrated by him on the Right Track 10 DVD.  Having contacted Hobby Holidays, towards the end of last week I received my 3mm foam.  Eager to get on, I glued the foam to the baseboard using Febond PVA and once this had dried sufficiently, I drilled two 10 mm holes for the Tortoise Turnout operating wires.  As per the advice on the DVD, I cut two squares from an offcut of foam to cover the holes, with a small slit cut in them for the operating wire to come through and fit into the tie bar.  The area that the track was to be laid was marked out and Febond 'painted' onto the foam.  The track was then put in place and final adjustments undertaken to ensure it was laid correctly.  Then fine grey Woodland Scenics ballast was spread over the whole formation and when this ran out, I used medium grey ballast to cover the remainder.  The ballast was 'scooped' along the track and pressed down between the rails.  After about 5 minutes, I hoovered up the ballast (ensuring that I had emptied the hoover first) and put this in a container for future use.  I then drilled holes next to the rails to feed the wires through the board to the underside.  The 'frog' wires need to be soldered on and holes drilled for them.  The layout will be DCC operated so I will be soldering a dropper wire to each length of track.  The tracklaying on baseboard 1 is almost complete - it just needs three sleepers of track on the end going away from the terminus that serves the platform on the other side of the Down platform.  For further progress onto baseboard 2 (6' x 2') I will need some more foam. 

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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I visited the Devon Records Office in Plymouth yesterday and discovered that plans of Friary station that were previously unfit for production had been re-scanned and is available on their website. The images are part of collection 2811 and can be found at www.plymouth.gov.uk/archives .

 

A quick glance at the elevations at the buffer end of the station reveals that there was a staircase that gave access from the end of the Down platform to Exeter Street. To accommodate this I shall have to attach a scenic board at the rear of baseboard 1. My frames are 4" deep so this should be possible.

 

I have also taken some shots of Tothill Road bridge so that I can estimate the height of the pillars and the radius of the arches. The bridge has 8 arches.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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I took board 1 out of the shed and placed it in the sitting room (SWMBO is away for 5 weeks!) and took some measurements for deciding where platform wall edge will be. I used a pencil attached to the side of a Dapol LMS dining car using Tamiya low tack masking tape. After drawing line, I was horrified to discover that the tape removed the paint and lining and the word "car" from the side!

 

Using a set of calipers, I have determined that the platform wall edge is 14mm from the inside of the rail nearest the wall to where the wall will be. I now need to draw a line for the platform walling to follow. The platforms will be made from Scalescenes platform material - need to glue templates to thick card. That will be the next job and hopefully photos to follow.

 

Boards 2 and 3 will be built this weekend and if the weather is kind, foam will be glued and track laid. I need to buy a hand staple gun to keep track down whilst glue dries after hoovering off excess ballast.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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I have changed my mind about using Scalescenes' platforms after assembling a length and not being able to get it to lie flat on the foam. I am now pondering whether to use Wills plastic brick sheets cut off at the 11th brick course with plasticard 40 thou sections to form the egg crate, Wills platform section kits or Peco edging strips. A visit to my regular model shop in Woodchurch today will help me decide.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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After visiting the model shop, I have gone with a 3rd option of using Metcalfe platform kits. These have the advantage of being easier to cut.

 

The weather was kind enough for me on Sunday to let me build board 2 and lay the foam before pouring down for the remainder of the day. I will upload some photos showing boards 1 & 2 together with track placed on board 2. I need to build some more straight connecting lengths before I think about laying track and ballasting. I was able to wire up board one for DCC but was disappointed when fitting suitcase connectors to dropper wires and bus, that only 2 out of the 8 or so used actually gave a connection! Instead I replaced all non-working connectors and stripped back the bus plastic outer cover and soldered the dropper wire to the bus. With it all working, I was able to run a couple of locos back and forth.

 

Platform building and track construction is the order for this week with track laying and ballasting at the weekend. I also have a couple of Ratio concrete huts to build.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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Last Sunday was kind to me, so I was able to build board 2 and lay the foam on the baseboard surface before it poured with rain.  Moving the second board into the sitting room, I was able to connect it to board 1 and lay out the Templot plan with the track sections that have already been built on it to get an idea of how the next stage will look.  With 5 hours spent each day during the working week on commuting, I am not usually in the mood by evening to undertake any involved model making so I have spent the week assembling the Metcalfe platform sections that will form the basis of the up platform on board 1.  It has been quite time-consuming and I would be interested in an alternative method....

 

This weekend the plan is to finish off the track sections for board 2, lay the track and ballast it, before wiring it all up.  You will see from the photos that I have a few pieces of C&L flexitrack for long runs but I prefer to build all track including plain track from individual components but this can be more costly than using flexi but has the advantage that you don't have to cut away any webs between sleepers.  Up to now, I have used 2-bolt chairs to fit in with a GWR theme but recently I have managed to source some 3-bolt chairs cheaper than the latest priced items so the next sections will be built using these.  I am using a slice of modeller's licence to alter the historical background of the station.  The alteration is that when the GWR arrived in Plymouth, they adopted Millbay as their station.  With the arrival of the LSWR, they opened a joint station at Friary and then in later years both companies opened a joint station at North Road and Friary became the LSWR/SR terminus in Plymouth.  The individual termini at East and West ends of the city, together with access to the docks created the Ocean Liner challenges - the LSWR for passengers and the GWR for luggage and parcels.

 

The next stage will be to build board 3 which will accommodate the lines forming the throat for the goods lines and heading towards Friary MPD.  This board will be 4'x2' bringing the existing length to 14'.  The intention is that I will acquire a 20'x10' shed to house the layout but this hasn't materialised yet.  Therefore, in the interim period the only way that the layout will be able to be operated in its growing lengths will be in the garden.  Each board will be completed scenically and then joined to its next board so that I can ensure the tracks line up and the scenery flows.  The earlier board will then be stored in my existing shed.  Once I have finished board 3, boards 4 and 5 will join to the side of boards 1 and 2 so that the full width of the goods yard can be achieved.

 

In the photo showing the pointwork at the station throat, the far left track ends at a buffer stop in front of the Tothill Road bridge.  The next three tracks go through arch 1 and the last track on the right, coming out of the down platform goes through arch 2.  Also going through arch 2 are a goods siding and the track that goes through the right hand door of the goods shed.  There are 8 arches in total on the prototype but I will have to see how much width I will have available before deciding how many of the 8 arches I will have.

 

Her are the photos so far.  Board 1 has been wired

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  • 2 weeks later...

Over the weekend and during this week, I have printed off another copy of the track plan for board 2 from Templot and have laid the already completed point work on it and I am now building the linking pieces of plain track that connects the point work together. At the weekend it is hoped that I will be able to lay and ballast the track on Board 2.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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Over the weekend I laid and ballasted the track on board 2. There were a few disasters with this, mainly due to my haste in trying to lay too much track in one go and missing one turnout when drilling holes for Tortoise operating wires. Fortunately, it all worked out in the end. I was also using a staple gun for the first to hold the ballasted track in place until the glue dried. There is a technique involved as explained on the Right Track 10 DVD that takes some time to perfect - if you are not careful the staple can push the track in too far so that it is lower than the adjoining piece of rail. As with a lot of things in this hobby, it is very much a case of trial and error.

 

I have taken some photos as I went along and I will upload these sometime later. I need to order some more rail from C&L to finish off the track laying on board 2, drill holes for the dropper wires to go through and wire up the board so that it can be electrically connected to board 1. Then I will start to build the track work for board 3 which will be the station throat on the other side of the Tothill Road bridge, taking the length to 14'.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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i can't believe that my 6 weeks alone without the wife, allowing me to move the layout building into the living room from the patio where it has become much colder have come to an end!  The layout boards are now stored back in the shed.  As mentioned earlier, I have so far laid track and ballasted it on two boards and on board 1, I have wired it ready for running but only have one Tortoise point motor secured to the board but not yet wired up or fitted to the tiebar.  My next steps will to solder all the droppers on board 2 and get the wiring done.  Then I will be buying 8 Tortoise motors and fit these.  Then, it will be time to move onto building the pointwork and trackwork on board 3 which will be the station throat.

 

Photos above show the laying of track on board 2 with a pullman car being used to ensure there is a smooth transition over the pointwork where it connects to the plain track.  After building some Metcalfe platform, I am not satisfied that this will be used for the platforms.  A bit expensive at £10 per kit for around 3.5 feet of platform but the main reason is that it is too time consuming.  The platform edging at Friary wasn't the normal concrete Southern affair so that would rule out using peco edging strips.  Instead, I think it would be simpler to make a template to use to cut the platform out of a sheet of wood of the appropriate thickness and then screw it to the board from underneath.  I might use Wills paving slabs for the top surface or put a layer of PVA down with some fine ballast material to form the gritty top coat - fine cinders might be the answer.

 

Jobs around the house over the Xmas period might stunt progress on the layout....

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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  • 3 weeks later...

Well, as anticipated there hasn't been any progress on the layout but hopefully this will change this weekend. Last weekend I had a lucky find at the model shop of two lengths of SMP flexible track, albeit nickel silver rather than my preferred steel but at £2.95 per length it couldn't be helped. I also bought some Peco hydraulic buffer stops, built and painted them but when put at the end of the terminal tracks they appear to take up too much space. Having looked at a photo of Friary station with a long shot of the buffer stops, they appear to look like the normal buffer stops that are used in sidings so I'll get some of the Peco kits for these instead.

 

I also got myself some sheets of 30 thou white plasticard and a couple of clear sheets and have started scratch building a row of houses and shops that were in an old Plymouth street. So far I have the shells for two and have another 6 or so to build. The hardest part has been constructing window frames from slices of plasticard in thin strips - the answer might be etched frames but sadly I cut out the windows before checking what size etched windows were available!

 

This weekend I want to wire up board two, build board three including adding the foam layer and then printing off the Templot templates for the station throat. I will have to modify the plan slightly after measuring the space available in the garden for a shed, the maximum length available will be 16' or 18'. I will therefore need to curve the station throat tracks sooner than planned to ensure I have a gentle enough curve to allow pushing of stock fitted with three and screw links without buffer locking. I will build some practice curves using Templot to produce the templates and then add the point work to these curves. Ideally I want a minimum of 4' radius curves but this might not be possible. I have some lengths of bullhead steel rail, plastic sleepers and PCB strips plus plenty of chairs to get on with some track building.

 

I will update this thread at the end of the weekend with the further progress.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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I spent Saturday on the layout. The first thing to do was add feeds to the rails and drill holes for the wires to go through. I never realised how time consuming and tedious soldering wires to track sections was so this job has not been finished. I also wanted to lay some flexi track but first it needed painting so a quick airbrush session took place to paint the sleepers an overall grey colour. This was then laid and ballasted in the same way as other bits. Before laying the track I soldered feed wires to the underside of the rail and drilled holes in baseboard. I then got a bit distracted and some goods stock on the layout and took some pictures - these will be added during the week.

 

Today I looked at the Templot plan and it was immediately apparent that some compression is going to necessary despite the track going round a 180 degree curve to back past where the MPD will go and the mainline goes downhill to come round under the terminus boards.

 

I will have a 5 hour slot next Sunday and have some days off the following week so I hope to get something done during that time. I am starting to think about how to build the 7 arch Tothill Road bridge, drawing some sketches etc. I have also been looking at the windows on buildings as I commute into and back from work each day.

 

The great thing about this hobby is that you have to wear so many hats that you can develop your skills. First you are a carpenter building boards, then it is permanent way engineer, electrician, civil engineer, landscape gardener, loco and rolling stock builder/engineer and finally controller.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...

There has been some progress on the layout but not as much as I would have liked. The bad weather over Christmas meant that I lost several pieces of felt from the shed and it began to leak in places. The relentless rainy conditions since has meant that it has not been possible to replace said felt. The leaking shed has meant that I have brought in the layout boards and some electrical tools into the spare bedroom. The bedroom already has double bed in it so there isn't a great deal of space in which to set up the layout, certainly not enough to allow both boards to be joined together.

 

A few weeks ago I bought some 4 foot lengths of 2"x2" pine to act as legs and temporarily clamped them to the 6 foot board. This enabled me to lay and ballast the final length of track for that board. I am now concentrating on building the track for the third board which is effectively the station throat before it will curve 180 degrees to the right to back along what will be the other side of the yet to be acquired larger 20' x 10' replacement shed.

 

What I am lacking at present is something manageable to run my stock on that could fit in the bedroom whilst I am building the main layout. I have scanned a Cyril Freezer track plan for a West Country branch line into Templot and have added the track sections to it. The plan is L shaped and is designed to fit a space 14' x 3' but because the bedroom is only about 12' long, I will have to curve it into a C shape. I have previously built 5 left hand and 5 right hand A5 points and I intend to use these on the project, meaning I only need to source the plain track. I also want nothing fancier than wire in tube point control and to use cassettes for the fiddle yard.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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Thank you for your kind comment. I also have an allegiance to the GWR but have always been captivated by Plymouth Friary. However, a visit to the Records Office in Plymouth netted a track plan of Plymouth Millbay which could also lend itself to a great layout comprising a terminus station, loco depot and goods facilities.

 

Sadly, not enough time or money to do all of them. Just need to win the Euromillions.....

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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  • 1 month later...

Sadly, there hasn't been any progress on the layout in recent weeks (months?) but I have built a crossover on a 48" radius curve for the next board or the one after that. The prototypical plan is effectively straight for a scale 40 feet or so but because I want this to fit into a 20' x 10' shed eventually, I need to bend part of that 40' round in a curve to come back down the other side of the shed. The other side of the shed will accommodate the MPD whilst the two main lines will descend and the enter a tunnel (unlike the prototype and the curve under the station area). I have not yet planned/ decided how to return the mainlines back to the station; either a return loop, cassettes or a continuous run that will involve a second turntable to turn locos for the return journey. Current thinking is that a return loop with additional loop sidings would be preferable.

 

Anyway, I hope to set up both boards tomorrow for a short period so that I can take some measurements for the platforms. I have decided to use Peco platform side walls and ramps with 30 thou plasticard as support for the surface. I have bought some track pins to hold the sections in place but will probably use impact adhesive to glue parts to foam underlay. I try it on a piece if foam to make sure there are no adverse effects. The edging faced will be lined with plasticard brick sheets cut down to fit. I still need to finish off wiring of board 2 and get more Tortoise/Cobalt point motors. A third board with some cassettes should allow me to run something and I can also spend some time building scenery whilst building further boards and track to extend operating further.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

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  • 2 years later...

Since my last update, I have become increasingly dissatisfied with certain aspects of this layout that I have decided to dismantle it.  Among the reasons for taking this decision include the fact that some lengths of track from C&L were nicely bent in the box by the Royal Mail but despite this I used them but there is an obvious kink in the platform roads that means the lines aren't straight, several of the tiebars have failed since being glued and ballasted and some of the turnouts seem to have narrowed in gauge meaning that some stock struggles to go through, I didn't leave enough room to model the approach road and since getting some plans of the station, it became apparent that the platform ends are elevated above the road that goes round the back.  It is likely that I will return to having a Plymouth Friary layout but it will most likely be in N Gauge to do it justice and might tie in with an extension of my Tavistock North N gauge layout that is currently under construction - only time will tell.

 

I still wish to continue with a layout in OO but I think that for operational interest, it will have to be something of a continuous run and thoughts are leaning towards St Germans or Penryn on the Falmouth Branch.  Both have been printed using Templot and I have built one C10 point for the latter.  I have also decided that I will use the L-Girder system so that it will be easier to build the scenery, especially if the former is adopted and will include the viaduct, either built from the Wills kit or scratchbuilt - most likely the latter as I mocked something up in card in 2007 to check its viability but abandoned that because the viaduct was built on a curve and I hadn't worked out that the piers on the outside of the curve need to be longer than those on the inside but retaining the same 50' arches.  Layout size would need to be restricted to 16' in length x 9' wide to allow 4' radius curves for scale couplings to be used.

 

All pointwork from the Friary project will be retained and modified to address the shortcomings noted above and reused in some way on future layouts.  I have already started a new thread on my Tavistock North layout and will create new threads for any new layouts.

 

Regards,

 

Steve

 

Steve  

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What a shame!  Friary has always been one of my favourite stations having used it many times in earlier years.  Everywhere  from Turnchapel to Waterloo, even Yealmpton after the war on a Sunday school excursion.

 

Brian.

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