Montague Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 I am not new to model railways but I am new to the British prototype. Being an avid Railway Modeller reader, I couldn't resist buying a Midland 4F in early BR livery after seeing it in the review. Although primary a freight locomotive, if I understand correctly, it could be seen pulling passenger trains too. Right? Could anyone please tell me which coaches you would recommend to use with this 4F and/or a Compound 4-4-0 (which may be my next purchase) in an early 1950's setting? Even though I have been thinking Midland region, or border Midland/Western region, region is flexible. Any input appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted October 10, 2013 Share Posted October 10, 2013 First welcome to RMweb! It depends how early in the fifties. Any of the GWR or LMS coaches available from the trade should be suitable, with the exception of the clerestories (there were a few survivors, but they would have been very decrepit by this time). In the early years the pre-natonalisation liveries would have still been about with some coaches being in BR crimson and cream (or all crimson for non-corridor stock). The first Mark 1 coaches would be around too, though they first appeared on the more important trains (principally named expresses). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
David C Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 It also depends on what kind of train you are trying to represent, which in turn depends on what sort of layout you are running it on. Tender locos (both the 4F and the compound) were likely to be used on semi fasts on main lines, cross country routes and the longer branch lines, so corridor coaches would be the norm. Older vehicles, such as the Bachmann early LMS panelled types, would be typical, although Hornby Stanier and the as yet unreleased Bachmann "porthole" stock could also appear, particularly towards the end of the 1950s as BR mark 1s began to displace them on main line express services. Short distance trains would use non gangway compartment stock, such as surviving pre group stock or Stanier compartment coaches such as the ones Dapol produce. I have seen photos of 4Fs on 2 coach trains of such vehicles, but I can't recall any of 4-4-0s, although they doubtless appeared at the head of such trains from time to time. Alternatively, you could model a special taking fans to a football or other sporting event or a summer special. At busy times, almost anything would be pressed into service, locos and coaches! Hope this is useful. David C Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
34theletterbetweenB&D Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 The coaches that would be most likely are - as already mentioned - some LMS non-gangwayed stock of which the Dapol kits are the closest thing to RTR. (There are other kits available which require considerably more construction and finishing). A decent selection of representative coach types covering the UK has been a long term deficiency in the ranges of RTR manufacturers; it's only been the last half dozen years that has seen real progress on this front. Which leaves us in the position that at present the LMS (which was comfortably the largest of the grouped organisations) is still without RTR models of the most common types of coach it operated, which would go on in significant BR use for over ten years after 1948. The variety of stock that ran is such that for the BR steam period there is no prospect of full RTR provision of models. The extreme variety of what ran on BR is thanks to the legacy of thirty major companies each with their own designs operating until 1922, and then continuous evolution in design from four companies during the grouping period. It took BR near twenty years of both network mileage losses and matching stock reductions, combined with replacement building of its own designs, to clear out almost all the legacy passenger stock. And even then it was possible to ride in a wooden frame body coach in regular service; built using a construction clearly evolved from the horse drawn road passenger coach tradition on which the earliest rail passenger coaches were based. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baby Deltic Posted October 11, 2013 Share Posted October 11, 2013 I model LMR services on my exhibition layout. For the outer suburban services I use two of the Mainline (now Bachmann) 50ft corridor composites with a pair of brakes on the outer ends. For LMR inner suburbans I use three or four of the Dapol non-corridors. Inner suburban haulage is an Ivatt 2P 2-6-2, outer is a 3F, 4F or 2-6-4 tank (standard/stanier/Fowler, etc) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandwich station Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 some LMS non-gangwayed stock of which the Dapol kits are the closest thing to RTR. They are also available as RTR from Dapol. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fenman Posted October 12, 2013 Share Posted October 12, 2013 ... an early 1950's setting? Even though I have been thinking Midland region, or border Midland/Western region, region is flexible. 4F traction was used year-round on the Midland & Great Northern, but particularly to handle the vast numbers of holiday trains (from memory, 4Fs were allowed to haul an extra coach compared to 4P engines, which made them particularly useful). Since there were through trains from the Western and Midland regions you could operate a very wide variety of stock with reasonable confidence. If you operate an actual M&GN line, you could make use of Hornby's superb non-gangwayed Gresley stock. Many of the M&GN's service trains were operated by 3-carriage sets of Stanier period 3 stock - again, superb Hornby models although irritatingly there's no composite in their range. This doesn't help you with the Compound, though, unless you fancy converting it to a D16? Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 12, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 12, 2013 Gloucester - Birmingham stoppers on the Midland produced 4Fs on occasions although earlier in the 1950s they usually had a Midland 2P 4-4-0. These were the Deeley rebuilds of Johnson locos rather than the Fowler version made by Airfix/Dapol/Hornby. The Railway Roundabout programme from 1958 has two clips of Midland 2P 4-4-0s at Bromsgrove and on the Lickey Incline. The first has what looks like an early LMS corridor composite, followed by a Porthole BSK, Stanier CK and Stanier BSK. The second has Stanier BSK/CK/BSK followed by an earlier LMS BSK similar to the Bachmann one, and a gas tank bringing up the rear. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montague Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Thank you very much for your long and thorough answers! I am almost overwhelmed by the response. You're a helpful lot here!! I have to take in what you all write, but my first thought is that I could buy (being limited of what is in stock at a certain Liverpool retailer, and limited by the fact that I would prefer RTR and not a kit right now): Hornby's Hawksworths coaches. I guess these would normally be seen behind a Western region locomotive, right? Bachmann's BR Mk1. Most probably seen behind a faster and more elegant locomotive than a 4F, but not limited to a certain region. Are these decent models? Before I order something I guess I need to put some research into common consists. I spent an hour or two reading on Wikipedia yesterday about British railways passenger stock classification! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2013 How early in the 50's are you thinking about? You may even get away with the odd coach in Big 4 livery. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montague Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 How early in the 50's are you thinking about? You may even get away with the odd coach in Big 4 livery. I was thinking around 1950. I see that Dapol has Stanier coaches in LMS Maroon, RTR. Could be something! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted October 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2013 Hawkesworth coaches certainly strayed later on - have a look at this thread Kind regards Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montague Posted October 13, 2013 Author Share Posted October 13, 2013 Hawkesworth coaches certainly strayed later on - have a look at this thread Kind regards Phil Sorry but did you miss sending the link? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted October 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2013 I was thinking around 1950. I see that Dapol has Stanier coaches in LMS Maroon, RTR. Could be something! The clips I referred to at Bromsgrove had several coaches or similarities available RTR. The Dapol Corridor Comp and Brake could be used in LMS (probably with M in front of number and crest painted out) or Blood/Custard, although repainted stock would probably be more front-line at that point as it only started around 1949-50. Similarly the Bachmann LMS 57' panelled stock (originally Mainline) appeared throughout that set of films. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold Phil Bullock Posted October 13, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted October 13, 2013 Sorry but did you miss sending the link? Doh - sorry! Yur tiz http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/35935-collett-60-and-hawksworth-coaches-latest-dates-for-use/ Phil Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.