Earl Bathurst Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 Hi Can anyone help why isn't Corgi or EFE producing new trams or different livery's with current moulds they have? Scott Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RANGERS Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 New tooling is probably well off limits, at least for Corgi and EFE, neither have had a good time recently and the current market for die-casts of any value doesn't justify the investment. Oxford have their own production facility so are under fewer constraints than the others. If anyone might be considering trams it would be them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbat Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 For some strange reason, I believe Corgi said each model would be a limited edition. Hence no more felthams and balloons. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted January 27, 2014 Share Posted January 27, 2014 The bubble for buses and trams must have burst years ago. I remember blokes hereabouts started to collect one or two and before long were nailing shelves to the living room walls for their burgeoning collections. While Corgi and EFE plundered the catalogues of Anbrico, Pirate, Cotswold and Westward etc., I always felt it a shame they did not strike out into untouched territory much more. I made scale drawings for numerous double deck bodies with an idea to etch them but shelved everything after a time even though i had already produced the rads and wings as castings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Maybe not as aesthetically appealing to collectors as the Felhams but I always thought that EFE or Corgy should have done a London E1 as well, the original was built over a longer period with lots of scope for livery variations and maybe more appealing to modellers as well. But I think Coachmans right the golden days of the big boys doing trams and buses may have passed I just sold some trams and buses on Ebay and got half of what I might have got 10 years ago. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 28, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2014 Perhaps an E3 rather than an E1, it only needs a change of bogies to make an HR2. I did suggest this to Frank Joyce a few years ago but he was not interested. I also suggested a Bedford OWB but that got the same response. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The problem with trams is that unlike buses where they were highly standardised and a single casting could be churned out in multiple liveries of operators throughout the country spreading the tooling costs over a large number of sales, trams tended to be bespoke designs restricted to one system so sales potential is much lower. Those that have been done are the few exceptions that did allow a range of liveries. The Blackpool Baloons and Brush cars being so long lived offered a multitude of liveries especially with the colourful advertising schemes (the vast majority of which have now been done!) The Feltham gave a couple of Leeds variations as well as half a dozen London liveries and anything 'London Transport' does tend to out-sell anything else for some reason (Boring 'plain red' to the outsider!) The Leeds Horsefield may have been confined to one System but because of the time range it covered unusually offered 6 distinct liveries. Also note that all those are relatively late fully enclosed designs that make them much easier to cast in fewer components and therfore more viable to produce than older open designs. The only other obvious types that offer the same advantages of a fairly simple to cast enclosed design and numerous liveries are the Manchester 'Pilcher' (2 Manchester livery variations + subsequent service on 5 other systems) and the Liverpool 'Green Godess' (2 Liverpool liveries + Glasgow) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The obvious one that should have been done is the Manchester Pilcher car as you could issue it in at least 10 different liveries. (2 Manchester, 5 Leeds, Sunderland, Edinburgh and Aberdeen) Will it happen? No very much doubt it, having said that Atlas do seem to be offering some new diecast trams along with Corgi re issues, addmitedly some have some issues but better than nothing I suppose. The Atlas Feltham I believe is wrong having the upper deck glazing from the centre entrance version. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 28, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2014 Three HR2's were sold to Leeds in the late 30's and they lasted almost until the end of the Leeds system. The E3 could also be used as the basis of the 'refurb' London trams. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The only other obvious types that offer the same advantages of a fairly simple to cast enclosed design and numerous liveries are the Manchester 'Pilcher' (2 Manchester livery variations + subsequent service on 5 other systems) and the Liverpool 'Green Godess' (2 Liverpool liveries + Glasgow) 5? The problem with the HR2 is that they're slightly different in their Leeds guise, not that I'd complain if a diecast was to appear. It was also mooted that a larger number of HR2s could have gone to Leeds, but it never happened one of the reasons being was equipping them with airbrakes as the magnetic track brakes weren't meant to be used in service in Leeds unlike London, only 2 of the 3 in Leeds were ever fitted, 279 the one that wasn't was ddisliked and rarely used as it was a handbrake car only. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenbat Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 I never understand why the Dick Kerr trams Corgi did-which were a standard, off the shelf design supplied to many, many operators, were pretty close to similar products from similar companies AND present a huge range of body options-were made in some weird bastardised S scale! I do think there could be an opening for such a model now. From one lower saloon, truck and platform moulding you can make: Single deck enclosed Single deck open platform Double deck open top, open platform DD balcony, open platform As above, enclosed platform DD short top cover, enclosed platform (Wallesy tram at Birkenhead) DD full top cover So, 7 variations, at least 2 or 3 of which would apply to almost any system you think of. There's 7 working tramways who'd want their own version, plus various museums. They'd be a great addition to any station layout, static or running, then there's the hardcore tram modellers who'd use a Brush body as a basis for all manner of similar types. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 28, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 28, 2014 5? The problem with the HR2 is that they're slightly different in their Leeds guise, not that I'd complain if a diecast was to appear. It was also mooted that a larger number of HR2s could have gone to Leeds, but it never happened one of the reasons being was equipping them with airbrakes as the magnetic track brakes weren't meant to be used in service in Leeds unlike London, only 2 of the 3 in Leeds were ever fitted, 279 the one that wasn't was ddisliked and rarely used as it was a handbrake car only. The only external difference to the Leeds HR2's was that the plough holder was blanked off. Its possible that the intention was to place more in service in Leeds but WW2 intervened. EDIT And of course the Leeds bow collector. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 Even better would be Bachmann reviving their still born British tram range using a mech based on the Honk Kong cars, again doubt it it'll ever happen. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 The only external difference to the Leeds HR2's was that the plough holder was blanked off. Its possible that the intention was to place more in service in Leeds but WW2 intervened. EDIT And of course the Leeds bow collector. No it wasn't, rounded lower saloon windows were fitted as were platform doors to 2 of them. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted January 28, 2014 Share Posted January 28, 2014 5? Slip of the keyboard, or I could have been thinking of Dundee who trialled a Pilcher but decined to purchase any (I presume one of the Aberdeen ones?) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Londontram Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Perhaps an E3 rather than an E1, it only needs a change of bogies to make an HR2. I did suggest this to Frank Joyce a few years ago but he was not interested. I also suggested a Bedford OWB but that got the same response. I agree but I was also thinking from a modeling angle an E1 gives you a slightly longer scope regarding time periods and liveries ie. LCC and the municipals through to late LT ok I know some of the very early E3s were ordered by some of the municipals but by the time they arived LT had taken over though I guess your entering another minefield as there was lots of veriations in the municipal E1s like route boxs and upper deck front window lay outs so I guess you could say there was never a standard E1 just a standard style. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium PhilJ W Posted January 29, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 29, 2014 No it wasn't, rounded lower saloon windows were fitted as were platform doors to 2 of them. A book I have has photographs of these trams taken in the late 40's with the original windows and open platforms. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Devil Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 A book I have has photographs of these trams taken in the late 40's with the original windows and open platforms. Sorry, then it's wrong to some extent, platform doors were fitted to 277 ex 1881 by the 26/6/1943 and to 278 ex 1883 by 29/3/1951 as stated previously 279 was never fitted with doors. The rounded lower windows. similar to those on the native Horsfield cars were fitted to all 3 certainly by pre 1948, also the beading that was on the 'rocker panel' was removed probably at the same time as the rounded window modification. 277 and 278 also received slightly different single blind route destinations, 278 at the time its platform doors were fitted and 277 by the 2/4/1952. I have numerous photos of these 3 cars in Leeds service showing the detail differences, including some of them en route from London in their LTPB state, so I know that they arrived from London like that, also I havbe a number of drawings produced by LCT at Kirkstall Rd Works (or more likely marked as such and prepared at the drawing office in Sovereign St) Sorry to argue over a petty point but I've researched this fairly thoroughly with the ultimate intent of producing a 3d print of the trio in their Leeds condition, having previously done pretty much all of the Leeds fleet. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nathan70000 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Could never understand why Corgi never did a model of any of Blackpool's illuminated trams. Fairly limited in what you can do with them, but they'd still sell like hot cakes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PLD Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Could never understand why Corgi never did a model of any of Blackpool's illuminated trams. Fairly limited in what you can do with them, but they'd still sell like hot cakes. See above for what makes a diecast model viable and the lummys not... very limited scope for re-issues to spread the development cost, complex shapes difficult to cast... And from what I recall, Tramalan's kit for the rocket was actually a poor seller... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Never did see the availability of the Tramalan Rocket, which is a shame as I would have had one. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pcc4199 Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Superb colour photo of 277 on Chapletown Road. http://www.railwaymedia.co.uk/Lightrail/Scans-Tram/i-LTzGwcw/A Andy Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan J Kirkman Posted January 29, 2014 Share Posted January 29, 2014 Surely the fact that Corgi ( Hornby Hobbies) are allowing Atlas to use their castings etc tells its own story they are in commercial terms sold out. To reactivate the Market would maybe need a motorised car to a higher standard but not at top of the range prices, not for something that will be for most people and add on nice to have item. A cross between the still born Bachmann 4 mm scale Corgi Classics and the Hong Kong car would be nice. Somehow considering that The HK wasn't a brilliant seller and that RTR model trams has the same problems as RTR Electric Locos, ie without an easy ( any one without any skill) overhead system they are a bit useless for volume sales I have little hope that manufacturers reluctant to do Electric Locos will do Trams. Metrolink M5000s are currently available from Halling in Europe and excusively from East Lancs Model Tramway Supplies in the UK but sell at the rate of about 2 a month! We cannot put together a financing package for another batch of 100 Blackpool Flexities from Halling. To produce some more they require a minimum order and some payment with the order and the rest 30 days after delivery, With a retail price on small margins of c£175 you can all do the Maths. A lot of money for cottage traders to frankly have available! And how much would a few hundred of a completely new model cost??? Tooling for the Flexitiy Model was paid for out of then Bombardier publicity Budget as they had a large batch of static models for promotional work. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
purpledoor Posted February 7, 2014 Share Posted February 7, 2014 OK I can see why no new die-cast trams will be produced but why can't they use the existing ones to produce models with the rest of the liveries, eg horsfield in all red, blue with white upper deck and blue cant rail, lptb red/cream, post-48 blue.Or Leeds Feltham in all red, or these two liveries Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bécasse Posted February 21, 2014 Share Posted February 21, 2014 Will it happen? No very much doubt it, having said that Atlas do seem to be offering some new diecast trams along with Corgi re issues, addmitedly some have some issues but better than nothing I suppose. The Atlas Feltham I believe is wrong having the upper deck glazing from the centre entrance version. I was interested to learn that the Atlas Feltham is die-cast because I have their Bruxelles/Brussel 5001 in HO (released December 2013) and that is moulded plastic. It is a nice model, well-scaled, with the glaring error that it has the pantograph fitted to the preserved real tram to enable it to run on the current system whereas in service they were always fitted with a trolley pole (and a pantograph would be totally inappropriate for the 1935 livery the model bears - the first pantographs appeared with the first pre-metro c.1969). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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