Ceptic Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Hi Flappington Jct...... .....Nuthin's simple in the world of railway colours ! Over the years, the only propriety model enamel paint that I perceived as closest to "just out t'shop" 'Blood & Custard', was that produced by 'Gloy'. Unfortunately, this has been out of production for some time.(I've got one pot left, and it ain't fer sale!) If you're looking for a darkened, soot laden version, then I would go for 'Precision' The two are compared here. I've no experience of Howes' 'Railmatch' versions. Perhaps someone can photo / scan a sample ? Bachmann, Hornby & Dapol still persist on selling us their drab versions of this livery.... ,.....Maybe ?, it's time they played catch-up with Hornby-Dublo ? Regards. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
crompton 33 Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 It can depend on the base colour you use (primer). As white or grey can change the shade of the top coat. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
coachmann Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 (edited) Ceptic's Gloy carmine looks fine on my PC. I've just photographed my very old pattern for carmine red just for the hell of it. The maroon pattern is there as a comparison along with the black stripe. Doesn't prove a thing on a PC I know.... Edited May 25, 2014 by coachmann 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ceptic Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 Ceptic's Gloy carmine looks fine on my PC. I've just photographed my very old pattern for carmine red just for the hell of it. The maroon pattern is there as a comparison along with the black stripe. Doesn't prove a thing on a PC I know.... WEB carmine and maroon.jpg Looks good to me Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium MJI Posted May 25, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted May 25, 2014 Colour balance on monitors is a horrid thing, at work I have 2 monitors and the colour balance is different, one of them looks muddy the other bright, neither quite right Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyC Posted May 25, 2014 Share Posted May 25, 2014 (edited) An example of how the colour of undercoat can change the final colour. Both these coaches are top coated with Precision Carmine, one over red and the other over white. I have repainted coaches in Carmine and Cream using both Railmatch and Precision. Those painted with Railmatch were a good match for Hornby's C & C whereas those painted with Precision were nearer Bachmanns. Edited May 25, 2014 by JeremyC Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold ikcdab Posted February 25, 2020 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 25, 2020 Having read a lot about this, I became very confused, hence I have done some research and set out here what I now think is the case. Just doing this for my own sanity... 1,. In 1948 BR adopted a couple of experimental liveries, one of which was known as "plum and spilt milk". This did not last. 2. In 1949, crimson lake and cream was adopted for gangwayed stock. The crimson lake was to BS381C, 540, crimson. The cream did not equate to a British standard. Precision paints P116. 3. In 1956 the cream upper panel was discontinued because of the difficulty in keeping it clean and because the crimson lake could fade to an almost orange colour. A darker maroon that was much nearer the LMS livery was adopted as an all-over livery. Probably it was BS381C, 541, maroon. Precision paints p108. At the same time, regions were given permission to adopt local schemes and the western and southern began to use chocolate and cream and green respectively for their main expresses. 4. In 1965, rail blue and grey was introduced. There are many variations on these colours due to undercoats, fading, weathering, photographic emulsions and the fallible human memory and these variations have generated many miles of comments and discussions.... Does this make sense? 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Tomlinson Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, ikcdab said: Having read a lot about this, I became very confused, hence I have done some research and set out here what I now think is the case. Just doing this for my own sanity... 1,. In 1948 BR adopted a couple of experimental liveries, one of which was known as "plum and spilt milk". This did not last. 2. In 1949, crimson lake and cream was adopted for gangwayed stock. The crimson lake was to BS381C, 540, crimson. The cream did not equate to a British standard. Precision paints P116. 3. In 1956 the cream upper panel was discontinued because of the difficulty in keeping it clean and because the crimson lake could fade to an almost orange colour. A darker maroon that was much nearer the LMS livery was adopted as an all-over livery. Probably it was BS381C, 541, maroon. Precision paints p108. At the same time, regions were given permission to adopt local schemes and the western and southern began to use chocolate and cream and green respectively for their main expresses. 4. In 1965, rail blue and grey was introduced. There are many variations on these colours due to undercoats, fading, weathering, photographic emulsions and the fallible human memory and these variations have generated many miles of comments and discussions.... Does this make sense? What you've written ties in with my understanding of these matters. The sentence starting "There are many variations...." should be in bold in any discussion of colour, and you can add variations in film processing and in computer monitor settings to the list. I've hopefully attached a shot taken in 2009 at the GCR of one of their coach rakes in maroon. What price that little pot of "authentic" colour? John. Edited February 25, 2020 by John Tomlinson 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted February 25, 2020 Share Posted February 25, 2020 From memory (unreliable I know!) the correct colour is somewhere between the first and second carriages, but this is a variation due to the age of the varnish. The second looks to be freshly done. I understand the colour was the same as LMS crimson, but it was called maroon to suggest otherwise. When I worked at the BBC (a long time ago), we had expensive references to set up colour monitors.... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium keefer Posted February 26, 2020 RMweb Premium Share Posted February 26, 2020 (edited) "2. In 1949, crimson lake and cream was adopted for gangwayed stock. The crimson lake was to BS381C, 540, crimson. The cream did not equate to a British standard. Precision paints P116. 3. In 1956 the cream upper panel was discontinued because of the difficulty in keeping it clean and because the crimson lake could fade to an almost orange colour. A darker maroon that was much nearer the LMS livery was adopted as an all-over livery. Probably it was BS381C, 541, maroon. Precision paints p108." BR used crimson - not crimson lake Crimson lake was the LMS coach colour, an approximation of which became BR maroon Edited February 26, 2020 by keefer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonny777 Posted February 26, 2020 Share Posted February 26, 2020 I've posted this before, but I will post it again. This is a screen grab from a Marsden Rail video of a train entering York station c1960/1. It is not meant to show any accurate colours but simply to illustrate the large difference in shade between the crimson BG and the maroon SK. Yes, the exposure is dodgy and the film quality is probably dodgy too, but if you rummage around on the internet you will find other photos (mainly of suburban trains) which have crimson and maroon vehicles side by side. It does seem rather unfortunate that Crimson and Crimson Lake seem to be two vastly different shades. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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