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Peter Beckett

Colliery drawings in 4mm scale

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Can anyone help with 4mm drawings to enable me to build a small colliery on my layout? I have found some great topics on the Forum but none for the buildings, head gear especially.

Any suggestions very welcome

 

Thank you

 

Peter

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A search in the wider world found 2 books by Rob Johnson : Modelling Aspects of the Coal Industry and Modelling Further Aspects of the Coal Industry so both are now on order.

 

This is the intro to Modelling Aspects of the Coal Industry and it looks quite good with 4mm drawings.

 

Chapters:
Introduction & Introductory Sections:

A Background to the Mine Headframe
Choosing a Prototype
The Models: including scratchbuilding and kits and kit bashing
Creating a Colliery Headframe in 4mm scale including scale diagrams:
Fig. 1. Colliery Headframe, side elevation; and Fig 1A. Plan view of pulley deck (scale 4mm/ft)
Fig. 2. Colliery Headframe, end rear elevation (scale 4mm/ft)
Fig. 3. Colliery Headframe, end (front) elevation (scale 4mm/ft)
Also a plan layout of a simplified typical colliery alongside two-track main line
Also a diagram of a steel framed self supporting open conveyor bridge for 18-inch wide spoil conveyor, scale 4mm/ft
Also a diagram of a coal handling depot (coal merchants modern (1950s) 2-bay coal/coke storage bunker, scale 4mm/ft
Fig 4. Loading Screens, front elevation, scale 4mm/ft
Fig 5. Loading Screens, side elevation, scale 4mm/ft

 

Peter :sungum: 

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I've a couple of pairs of those eBay sheaves for a future project. They're very good, an item which would be quite difficult to make from scratch.

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Hi, you might be interested in this.  Some years ago I got interested in making a coal mine and found like you not much arround to help apart from memories.  So I set to, did some research and as a break from the retirement day job (making 16mm live steam engines) Produced an etched kit in 4mm for a 1900 headframe. The prototype(s) of which are preserved at Blaenant in S Wales.

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Here are a few pics of the kit built.  Headframes varied over time, early -  wood, then lattice, structural steel and concrete latterly,  Also by region, the Welsh  used lots of these lovely lattice types.  The "Modelling Aspects of the Coal industry" books were published about the same time and the RTR  locos, Bachmann in particular produced many of the required locomotives O4s J39s and WDs.  In spite of this it is a rarely modelled subject and needs support.  To get good layout inspiration there is a lot on the web.  If you search coal mines by region you will find a lot. The best pics I ever found were by a German called Fentser ( I think), he went round N europe including the UK producing an archive of the mining industry in photos, all B/W and all stunning. I will try and find some working links for you if you are interested.  ( The model I make is somewhat shorter than the real thing being 65' not 80' of the prototype. From the cost point of view I had to get it onto 3 sheets of A4 etch.) Regards, MW.

Edited by M Wright
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Is the head frame kit still available? One of those kits I always regretted not buying when it was being advertised, it really is a lovely piece of work.

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Is the head frame kit still available? One of those kits I always regretted not buying when it was being advertised, it really is a lovely piece of work.

I'd be interested in one too. Colliery layout at the club and all...

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German photographers Bernd & Hiller Becher spent a lifetime photographing industrial structures across Europe and the US. They've had a number of books published covering, amongst others, blast furnaces, water towers, grain silos and coal mine head gear. The photographs have minimal captions but are of stunning clarity. Here are some thumbnails of coal mine headgear,

 

post-6861-0-91740000-1415653521_thumb.jpg

 

Their books are 'art' books, usually limited runs, and priced accordingly. I've the one on blast furnaces and that contains a few UK images.

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Londontram, on 10 Nov 2014 - 22:03, said:

Hi LT,

I have sent an email to the suppier asking if they post to Australia. Thanks for the link.

 

Peter

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I'll add my name to those interested in buying the head frame etch.

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Hi LT,

I have sent an email to the suppier asking if they post to Australia. Thanks for the link.

 

Peter

 

Peter,

 

Glad I have found you.

 

For obvious reasons, Ebay is a serious censor on otherwise making direct contact.

 

Yes we do supply to Australia, and have done to US, Canada, New Zealand, South Africa

Switzerland as well as the UK.

 

Please PM me with your e-mail for the PayPal Invoice you requested.

 

10% Discount on eBay items for direct PayPal sales - and with PayPal cover too.

 

Noel

Edited by Dazzler Fan

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+

 

For a less complicated model - why not?

 

Possibly the most published picture, Writhlington, Somerset. on the S&DJR

post-12739-0-11511900-1415682087_thumb.jpg

 

 

And its demolition.

post-12739-0-51182900-1415682222.jpg

Edited by Dazzler Fan
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HI, firstly congratulations on starting this developing and interesting topic.  I am so glad to have found the names of those German photographers again, my apologies for the wrong name- age is catching up.  I do not wish to use this site commercially it is my  relaxation, but yes these kits are still made  in 4mm and 2mm scale too.  If you wish details I can be contacted through our website www.wrightscale.co.uk. there is a blog on the site that is quite interesting too.

To the subject I will post a bit of stuff I have when I have a bit more time.  Most of what I am collecting is linked to a rather ambitious model I am starting to make.  A model of parts of the Smeaton Branch of the NB as was in 1957.  The model in 2mm will have three mines on it  and one large washery.  The era chosen  is when the line was still fullly signalled with lovely lower quadrant lattice post signals, thet went late 57.  Most traffic was worked by 2MTs, J35s, J38s and J37s.  The washery was worked by anything. Black 5s , 4MT WDs, I once caught a grimy A4 on a train!.  All gone not a trace of the mines round Ormiston, no Fleets Colliery, No trace of the huge washery. To try  and model what has gone is a great driving force for me. The chosen scale is small, since It is being built from blow ups of 25" to the mile OS maps.   I am using this new N scale track that Wayne Kinney has developed,and some of the recent models from Bachmann, having decided it is the overall impression I want and life is too short to find the time and money to build everything from scratch. One 2MT 46461 was the last engine I saw on this line working as usual, no spotters, no interest just a cog in the local industry.  After that the line lasted a few months, then gone.

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HI, firstly congratulations on starting this developing and interesting topic.  I am so glad to have found the names of those German photographers again, my apologies for the wrong name- age is catching up.  I do not wish to use this site commercially it is my  relaxation, but yes these kits are still made  in 4mm and 2mm scale too.  If you wish details I can be contacted through our website www.wrightscale.co.uk. there is a blog on the site that is quite interesting too.

 

 

I did wonder if the Becher's were the photographers to whom you were referring. Hilla is still alive though Bernd passed away in 2007. For those interested in industrial plant and buildings their work is astonishing for it's clarity and detail. It's a pity that their books are not more readily, and cheaply, available. Prior to the second run, copies of the first run of the blast furnace book were selling for £400:00. The second run is long sold out too. Still, second hand bargains crop up now and then.

 

Delighted to hear that the head frame kits are still available, I've sent an email from the link on your website.

 

 

That's a fascinating project you have embarked upon. So were the collieries and the washery linked by the NBR branch, not by private lines?

 

We had a thread running on the extensive colliery system based around Walkden Workshops, just west of Manchester. It was my local colliery system when I was a lad. Here's a link, if it's of any interest.

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/61305-walkden-colliery-lines/

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Hi, yes I am sure these are some of the photos that I found about 15 years ago. Thanks so much for pointing us to them ( I lost a lot I had downloaded when our first serious computer died, only it could drive  a magneto -optical drive I had stored the pics on!)  The model railway will if finished be about 30 metres of line basically snaking in room connecting one scene to the next.  The real thing is quite well recorded.  Quite a bit in the Scottish Record office and a good book "The Haddington, Macmerry and Gifford Branch Lines" BY A Hajducki, Oakwood Press.  My late father was Area Manager for the Electricity Board at the time. Often at weekends I would go out with him to inspect faults. Consequently I had many opportunities to be in what I found interesting places that the public never saw. My only regret is I didn't have a camera. The real railway was all BR latterly they worked all the coal loading points and the washery.   Some of the collieries had their own locos. Even in the early sixties Fleets still had a couple of Barclay 0-4-0s That worked from the screens to BR at Bog Sidings,  Yes, it was not pretty but interesting with a lovely NB box and all the signals in use.

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Both books on order and both winging their way south, one from UK and the other from the US. Also sheave wheels on order. Looks like another good project will soon be started. Thanks to all who have contributed to this thread so far :no:

 

Peter  :sungum:

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Hi, I have found the addresses of a couple of sites that were useful with loads of information and pictures.  www.aditnow.co.uk  this site is enjoyable to explore, lots of information about mining and if links are followed lots of pictures.  Very good info on aerial tramways(ropeways) something else I want to make a kit for one day.  Another site is www.welshcoalmines.co.uk/forum/read.php?14,31406  this is a topic on modelling, near the bottom of the first page is a post by sapper who gives a link to his Flickr page - sapper537  Some excellent photos in his album of headframes.  I will post some drawings and photos of my own shortly. Regards, M W.

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Thanks for those links, very interesting content.

 

Here's some information on aerial ropeways; they're scanned from a promotional book produced by Mitchell Engineering who built a wide range of materials handling equipment; telphers, cranes, conveyors, tipplers, coaling plants etc.

 

post-6861-0-25992300-1415879362.jpg

 

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post-6861-0-31337400-1415879421.jpg

 

Hope they're of interest, I could do some scans of the detail if it's of any help.

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Have you had a look at the Cwmafon layout thread?

 

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/78572-cwmafon/page-2

 

Mike Edge built the sheaves himself...

 

There are at least two O gauge collieries from John and Owen Gibbon - Ynyswybl Fach and Craig Pystll Du. Both feature working pit head gear.

 

and in N look for Hawthorn Dean in the layouts thread... 

 

My problem is that to model my one home pit would need 2 large sets of pit head gear and a third even taller one (for the skip winder). 

 

see http://www.dmm.org.uk/gallery/h012-000.htm  - Durham Mining Museum has lots of colliery pictures of all sorts of collieries and the building around them

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Some pictures of Wayne Hopkins 7mm scale colliery which has appeared at the last two Cardiff Shows, due to its' popularity.

.

It represents a South Wales pit - generally identifiable by the revettment - i.e. the pit head buildings were on top of a large stone wall, with the railway below - this was to allow the journies ( a train of trams ) to run out of the cage and into the screens, and the railway wagons would stand beneath the screens for loading.

.

The headframe in this picture ( which I believe is a Wrightscale etch ) would probably be the downcast shaft - fans are used to draw air down the 'downcast' shaft, circulate around the headings and then draw the air out of the pit through the upcast shaft - the fans are generally linked to the upcast shaft in some way.

.

Upcast shafts could usually be identified as the headframe was normally clad in corrugated sheets or similar to make them airtight and aid the flow of air.

.

The model features a working ropeway - but the chaps were setting up when I took the photos, and the ropeway was the last to be erected.

 

I have more shots if you want.

.

Brian R

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Edited by br2975
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Acouple of shots of the headframe at Big Pit, Blaenavon taken in July this year.

.

Well worth a visit, you can go underground, and it's free................ and the Pontypool & Blaenavon Railway is right next door.

.

Brian R

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Fantastic pictures!

Can I ask another favour please?

Were any collieries in UK connected to the canal system?

 

Peter

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Yes quite a few were in the Black Country, and South Staffordshire coal fields, and if the pit didn't have it's own basin, the railway often linked to them. What's now the Chasewater railway but was originally part of the Cannock Chase Collery company's lines linked there network of pits to both main line exchange sidings (both MR & LNWR) but also to a number of basins, coal was still dispached by boat to Walsall Powerstation in the 50's I am told.

Depending on what your looking for the South Staffs Coal field had few large pits except towards the latter years of it's days like Littleton, Hilton Main, Lea Hall etc. but before that end phase of the NCB hand many hundreds of small and medium sized pits, there are a few books about the areas mining heritage.

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Yes quite a few were in the Black Country, and South Staffordshire coal fields, and if the pit didn't have it's own basin, the railway often linked to them. What's now the Chasewater railway but was originally part of the Cannock Chase Collery company's lines linked there network of pits to both main line exchange sidings (both MR & LNWR) but also to a number of basins, coal was still dispached by boat to Walsall Powerstation in the 50's I am told.

Depending on what your looking for the South Staffs Coal field had few large pits except towards the latter years of it's days like Littleton, Hilton Main, Lea Hall etc. but before that end phase of the NCB hand many hundreds of small and medium sized pits, there are a few books about the areas mining heritage.

Well into recent times, coal was delivered from some local pits to the Aire Valley power stations via the Aire and Calder Navigation. The vessels used were somewhat larger than the traditional narrow boat, carrying several hundred tons of coal. In earlier times, much of the original canal network had been built to carry coal; some such canals were later converted to railways. A notable example was the Burry Port and Gwendreath Valley Railway, large parts of which used the route of Kymer's Canal; this reverted to its roots every time it rained..

 

Can I make one plea, please? When making a model of the pithead layout, please do not put the magazine (explosive store) anywhere near the head-gear. The Inspectorate of Mines and Quarries (or whatever  they were called) had an aversion to such an arrangement, as an accidental explosion would cause the shaft to be blocked. Likewise, such buildings were almost always of sturdy brick or stone construction, with flat roofs, and often surrounded by a 'bund'. The amount of explosives being moved in and out at any given time would be relatively small, so carrying by hand or possibly in a barrow, would be the norm. Sometimes, however, specially-designed 'drams' were used to move explosives:- http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/cynheidre/h3aa1f2ba#h3aa1f2ba 

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I'd agree with Brian R, big Pit at Blaenavon is well worth a visit.

 

 

As for canal links, the mining system most intimately associated with canals was the Worsley mines of the Duke of Bridgewater. He had the Bridgewater canal built to link his mines at Worsley, about 6 miles west Manchester, with the River Irwell and thence to Manchester itself. At the Worsley end, the canals burrowed into a vertical rock face and into the mines themselves. Eventually there were 46 miles of underground canal on two levels, these being linked by an inclined plane up which the boats were hauled. The especially narrow underground boats had prominent internal ribs giving them a skeletal appearance, and they were known as 'starvationers'.

 

Here's a couple of links with photos.

http://www.penninewaterways.co.uk/bridgewater/worsleydelph.htm

 

http://www.daveweb.co.uk/canal1.html

 

Coal ceased to be moved on these underground canals in 1887 but they were maintained, latterly by the NCB, until 1968, as they remained an important drainage system for other local pits. Several more recent attempts to open them to the public have come to nought.

 

Minerals, various ochres and iron ore, stained the water orange, and I mean orange, it looked like tomato soup. The Bridgewater canal through Worsley was this characteristic colour until a few years ago when, despite some local opposition, the waters were 'cleaned'.

 

Though this system closed, many other local collieries were linked by internal railways to the canal and the former Manchester Collieries system had three, if not four, canal side tipplers. They are referred to in the RMweb link I posted earlier.

 

Coal from these tipplers was transported by barge to Barton power station, three miles or so south, which had it's own wharf on the canal, well into the 1960's. The canal was not a narrow , 7', canal and the barges were built to a 14' (IIRC) width.

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