RMweb Premium GraemeWatson Posted November 14, 2014 RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2014 Dear fellow RMWebbers, in the past I posted up a photo comparison of the Sanda Kan Silver Link vs the Railroad Silver fox. There have been further alterations to the Railroad A4 for the worse, that you should be aware of. 1) Permanent Coupling, screwed at loco/tender >No warning in the box to inform you of this fact. 2) Loss of tender pickups, which were present in previous railroad A4s 3) Utilisation of the super detail tender underframe, with speaker chamber. Gets rid of the articulated rear axle. A plastic screw mounting has been glued into the molding of the standard railroad tender, to accommodate the super detail tender underframe. >Note, a self tapping screw is used at the rear of the tender, which easily strips the thread added into the tender body, as a result of overtightening (which as issued is necessary to stop the tender body rising PFF the underframe) 4) There is now a slimline NEM pocket at the rear of the tender to accommodate a slimline coupling as opposed to the big D loop on previous railroad A4s. 5) The loco retains sprung buffers, the tender now has the Tornado/P2 buffers. I did a bit of modification. It wasn't simply a case of swapping tender underframes with pickups. I did obtain a spare and cannablise out the pickups and hardwired them to the loco. DCC users beware that the correct p ace to add you pickup feeds is the underside of the 8 pin socket, rather than the red and black wires you see connected to the motor. All in all, in my opinion, the Railroad A4 no longer represents a jewel in the smoke for detailing projects, the way many of us did with Falcon. The new railroad model is a step back from the recent Silver Fox and ex-set Mallard (Flight of...). Just thought I would share this with you before you all go out and by Golden Shuttle in droves, thinking it is another Falcon... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Did the Railroad A4 Tender ever have pick ups ? as it is/was based on the old tender drive version, hence the large rear coupling and swing bogie at the rear. The body was the oversized version too. The couple I have seen still had the old tender drive chassis with just the motor missing. If its now using the Superdetail tender chassis surely it has the superdetial tender body as well as the tender drive version will not fit it. If that is correct it a vast improvement on the Railroad version not a downgrading IMHO. A4 don't need tender pick ups in my experience the loco has more than enough , the same on the A1/A3 versions as well. The tender pick ups act like brakes if badly adjusted too. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium GraemeWatson Posted November 14, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2014 Did the Railroad A4 Tender ever have pick ups ? as it is/was based on the old tender drive version, hence the large rear coupling and swing bogie at the rear. The body was the oversized version too. The couple I have seen still had the old tender drive chassis with just the motor missing. If its now using the Superdetail tender chassis surely it has the superdetial tender body as well as the tender drive version will not fit it. If that is correct it a vast improvement on the Railroad version not a downgrading IMHO. A4 don't need tender pick ups in my experience the loco has more than enough , the same on the A1/A3 versions as well. The tender pick ups act like brakes if badly adjusted too. My falcon certainly did, early purchase at £45! The loco has a drawbar with copper contacts that tickle the underside of the original RR tender. The other side of pickup is transferred through the blackened brass tender peg into the mouth of the loco drawbar Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium GraemeWatson Posted November 14, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2014 As I suggested, there has been a bodge workaround by the gluing of a screw thread housing into the oversize RR tender, to allow for a "nasty" self tapping screw to go through the basic super detail tender underframe into the oversize tender body Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
60800 Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 A set of photos would be greatly appreciated. Is one of the smokebox door hinge lines still missing? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-BOAF Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 Re permanent screw - surely one can unscrew screw, remove bar and insert previous spring clip - the chassis block probably hasn't changed. At the tender end more of a problem, but I gather from the latest superdetail A4s that the previous metal contact spigot has gone in favour of the same semi-permanent screw arrangement Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewartingram Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 By all accounts, this sounds like sensible mods to me. Surely a S-D frame is better? The older wiper contacts, (speaking from a personal electronics engineer viewpoint) were poor design, as I well know from earlier days of fitting Zero 1 chips. A solid hard-wired connection is best (ok not present as no tender pickups). What is wrong with a permanent loco/tender coupling? Pickups can be easily added to any tender, all my locos get fitted to enable more reliable pickup. A bit of pcb sleeper, some brass or nickel silver wire does the job. As for body fixing, it is hidden so does it matter. Agreed that the screw can be over-tightened, happens all the time, but easily fixed. The coupling is now an improved type, NEM. And Hornby or Bachmann have explained how much sprung buffers add to the cost. Seems a rather negative outlook on what is now offered. Stewart Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 14, 2014 Share Posted November 14, 2014 A search has found pictures of Golden Shuttle most places haven't got any in stock. The pictures show the old tender drive Tender with oversize body and old style large coupling. easy to spot huge moulded coal pile and oversize side handrails . Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium GraemeWatson Posted November 14, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 14, 2014 It may seem I am being negative, however, I felt that the model buying public would certainly benefit from knowing exactly what you were letting yourself in for. Hence: read before you buy. As I said, Mallard from the "Flight of..." Set and even the concession exclusive Silver Fox were both better in terms of the nuts and bolts; a decent A4 for a decent cost. I know for a fact a fair few people at the local club are wanting to shell out on Golden Shuttles for a reasonably priced A4 donor, but at £70+, and technical downgrading, the model isn't going to serve the same purpose as the boom years with Falcon. I know of some people who stopped paying silly money for Falcons aware that Golden Shuttle was around the corner. >Armed with the information I've posted it will be up to the individual to decide if it will suit their purposes, I for one was expecting a clone of Falcon for £70, which had been the norm recently even for Flight of the Mallard. As far as I am aware there was no advance announcements of downgrading the RR A4. I'll set up some photos when I get the chance. I can confirm however that the running, for what it is worth(!), is satisfactory (DCC concepts Zen installed after DC run in). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RAF96 Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Re post #1 item 4 try Hornby X8889 which is a large loop nem pocket coupling. Hornby also do medium and narrow couplings. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
doublecee Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I'm struggling to find any negatives, especially for the price. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdamOrmorod Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Looking at the picture on the Olivia's Trains website, the chassis does appear to be the super-detail type with the correct rear steps and axleboxes, while the old chassis had rather undernourished axleboxes and rear steps suitable for a non-corridor tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
shunny Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 If the tender has the same moulded buffers as P2 this will be the new railroad tender chassis made to cut costs as no sprung buffers, the chassis is still much better than older type (apart from buffers) in detail this would also explain lack of pick ups as there are non on railroad P2. Many of Hornbys recent railroad models were designed to cut manufacturing costs ie new hall was to give them a Harry Potter loco that is much cheaper to make than old Dapol castle and Mk1 coaches were the same as old triang originals had a 5 piece body. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium GraemeWatson Posted November 15, 2014 Author RMweb Premium Share Posted November 15, 2014 Re post #1 item 4 try Hornby X8889 which is a large loop nem pocket coupling. Hornby also do medium and narrow couplings.I was not pointing out the narrow coupling as a "problem" as such, just making it known. I should also stress yet again, that this is not a dig at Hornby, but for those wanting to shell out £70 on a loco, manufacturers and retailers aren't making it clear to buyers just exactly what new changes have been made to it, to make it cheaper, and if these changes put you off, there you are. If not, fair enough. The loss of tender pickups seems a shame. Price increases aside, those who were interested in buying one, on the strength of Falcon particularly, would probably rather know all this in case these new changes made it a less attractive prospect. No comments had been made about this before I went out and nought one, so I felt it fair to let everyone know what I found. Falcon was originally about £45/50, went up to £65, and Golden Shuttle is £70. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 I ran my Golden Shuttle at the Purbeck Model Railway Group meeting last night. It ran very well. We thought it was nearly as good as Bittern which we also ran. At £71.30 Golden Shuttle represents excellent value for money. I bought it because it was on page 1041 of Arthur Mees Children's Encyclopaedia as an illustration of locomotives of the Big Four. The others were Lord Nelson, King George V and Coronation. Golden Age Models already produce the West Riding coaches to go with Golden Shuttle but I look forward to seeing someone produce some cheaper examples. It is the first time that anyone has produced a ready to run model of Golden Shuttle in the correct livery for the mass market. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
micklner Posted November 15, 2014 Share Posted November 15, 2014 Shame the Tender chassis is hidden. The picture confirms it still has the old Tender drive body. Golden Shuttle should also have Silver lining to the base of the Valances and Tender body as the Coronation A4's. Probably something they would have only done for the Superdetail versions. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
steviesparx Posted November 16, 2014 Share Posted November 16, 2014 Did the Railroad A4 Tender ever have pick ups ? as it is/was based on the old tender drive version, hence the large rear coupling and swing bogie at the rear. The body was the oversized version too. The couple I have seen still had the old tender drive chassis with just the motor missing. If its now using the Superdetail tender chassis surely it has the superdetial tender body as well as the tender drive version will not fit it. If that is correct it a vast improvement on the Railroad version not a downgrading IMHO. A4 don't need tender pick ups in my experience the loco has more than enough , the same on the A1/A3 versions as well. The tender pick ups act like brakes if badly adjusted too. The Railroad Falcon did have tender pick-ups, as did the DCC fitted Railroad Mallard in green... There was a fixed Cartazzi bogie, ie It didn't swing like the old tender drive A3/4 did.... The electrical connection was made with pick-ups above and below the drawbar, and the tender was the TD example sans motor... The Railroad Tornado has employed the tender without pick-ups since introduction, certainly all my examples have. Remember this model also introduced the motor with brass flywheel, presumably for getting through dead frogs now there are less pick-ups ! I think my 'Heritage' set DoG also has the tender without pick-ups IIRC - Do remember seeing the cut-out for the wired connection as per sound fitted models and Brittania examples. Have a couple of 'Gladwell' on order, so will be interested to see the pick-up arrangement on a TTS Railroad A4..... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Models of express locomotives of the Big Four illustrated on page 1041 of Arthur Mees Children's' Encyclopaedia. Golden Shuttle was the LNER example. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robf Posted December 30, 2014 Share Posted December 30, 2014 Please see my post on the TTS Sound fitted Gadwall and a body sway with the Flight of the Mallard loco. I've just done the body swap. The mail loco was just a single screw and a straight swap. The tender on the other hand! Hornby seem to have 2 different railroad A4's. The Mallard from the Flight set had the old motor powered tender but with no actual motor in it which looked odd. It also had sprung buffers but the older large tension coupling. More troubling was the different fixings. A little work later and some Blu-tac I now have a sound fitted Mallard. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robin Brasher Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 Golden Shuttle on Purbeck Model Railway Group's track at Swanage with some Gresley coaches. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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