Henley-on-Thames - GWR in the 1930's

[Nick Gough]

The Saints certainly had some good names amongst them especially, in my view, those named after the Scott novels.

 

I've always been intrigued as to why the class were known as 'Saints' though?

They weren't the first to be built and only twenty had saint names - numerically there were more courts. They weren't even the first names in the 29XX series.

 

I'm sure there must be a logical reason?

Edited December 6, 2021 by Nick Gough

[Neal Ball]

6 hours ago, Harlequin said:

“Robins Bolitho” is a great name for a loco.

The ‘Present your case’ feature in this month’s Model Rail magazine is the Saint class.

It feels like the idea is gathering steam…

You've reminded me, I need to add my comments to the model rail FB page!

[Neal Ball]

6 hours ago, Nick Gough said:

The Saints certainly had some good names amongst them especially, in my view, those named after the Scott novels.

 

I've always been intrigued as to why the class were known as 'Saints' though?

They weren't the first to be built and only twenty had saint names - numerically there were more courts. They weren't even the first names in the 29XX series.

 

I'm sure there must be a logical reason?

Im sure there was, but I suspect it’s now lost in the midst of time!

[Neal Ball]

I’ve just had a look across a couple of websites and can see no reference to why the locos were called Saints.

 

As well as Wikipedia; I looked at the GWR modelling pages by Russ http://www.gwr.org.uk and the GWS pages…. But found one of their blog pages I hadn’t seen before: https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/product.php/78/going-loco/61733d39594669739ed02819457e969f 
 

Which is back on topic…. about the Centenary carriages! Which included this lovely 1930’s photo that I’d not seen before.

 

Just look at the detail; the style and the unlit Capstan(?) cigarette!

 

The photo was taken inside one of the 3rd class compartments 

Edited April 3, 2022 by Neal Ball
photo changed

[St Enodoc]

1 hour ago, Neal Ball said:

I’ve just had a look across a couple of websites and can see no reference to why the locos were called Saints.

 

As well as Wikipedia; I looked at the GWR modelling pages by Russ http://www.gwr.org.uk and the GWS pages…. But found one of their blog pages I hadn’t seen before: https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/product.php/78/going-loco/61733d39594669739ed02819457e969f 
 

Which is back on topic…. about the Centenary carriages! Which included this lovely 1930’s photo that I’d not seen before.

 

 

Just look at the detail; the style and the unlit Capstan(?) cigarette!

 

The photo was taken inside one of the 3rd class compartments 

He looks keen. What will happen in the first tunnel...?

[Neal Ball]

4 minutes ago, St Enodoc said:

He looks keen. What will happen in the first tunnel...?

It’s the 30’s they didn’t think like that in those days…… lol

 

Apart from anything, they are a long way from a tunnel…. Looks as if they are in the carriage sidings at Old Oak Common!

[Nick Gough]

30 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Looks as if they are in the carriage sidings at Old Oak Common!

 

It must have been an engrossing conversation if they have managed to end up there!

Especially if they boarded at Penzance.

[Harlequin]

2 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

I’ve just had a look across a couple of websites and can see no reference to why the locos were called Saints.

 

As well as Wikipedia; I looked at the GWR modelling pages by Russ http://www.gwr.org.uk and the GWS pages…. But found one of their blog pages I hadn’t seen before: https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/product.php/78/going-loco/61733d39594669739ed02819457e969f 
 

Which is back on topic…. about the Centenary carriages! Which included this lovely 1930’s photo that I’d not seen before.

 

 

Just look at the detail; the style and the unlit Capstan(?) cigarette!

 

The photo was taken inside one of the 3rd class compartments 

 

Almost certainly a Players cigarette - notice the advertising under the "Smoking" compartment sign.

 

[Neal Ball]

4 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

Almost certainly a Players cigarette - notice the advertising under the "Smoking" compartment sign.

 

 

Well observed Phil yes.

 

Can you work out what the furthest lady has in her hand? Today, we would say she is holding her iPhone! Surely it's not her ticket, it's a posed photo in carriage sidings....

 

Anyway, have a good day.

[Harlequin]

Just going back to the Saints for a minute.

 

I couldn't find anything about the class name either but I have a theory: The first Lot that had consistent features from which you could recognise a class were the Saints. The earlier lots were not consistent.

 

The three prototypes came first, obviously, with various differing features. Then the square-framed Scott series, most of which were built as 4-4-2s. Then the Ladies, again with square frames and variations in their boilers and fireboxes.

 

Then all the members of the Saint series shared all the features we recognise today - 4-6-0s with long cone boilers, long smokeboxes and curved frames (one of Holcroft's best contributions).

 

The Courts simply followed on with more or less the same features as the Saints - they had found a winning formula.

 

Edited December 7, 2021 by Harlequin

[Neal Ball]

14 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

Just going back to the Saints for a minute.

 

I couldn't find anything about the class name either but I have a theory: The first Lot that had consistent features from which you could recognise a class were the Saints.

 

The three prototypes came first, obviously, with various differing features. Then the square-framed Scott series, most of which were built as 4-4-2s. Then the Ladies, again with square frames and variations in their boilers and fireboxes.

 

Then the Saint series shared all the features we know today - long cone boilers, long smokeboxes and curved frames (one of Holcroft's best contributions).

 

The Courts simply followed on with the same features as the Saints - they had found a winning formula.

 

 

I have just grabbed by 1971 David & Charles book "GWR engines, names & numbers" and looked at the 1911 section....

 

My expectation was that the locos were simply known as the 2900 class - which it says above the photo on Pg24 but the following page shows the locos from 2900 to 2998 - with the title "Saint class" 

 

So I'm no further forward in knowing why, but clearly the railway coined that phrase, rather than being a nickname from enthusiasts.

 

Interestingly the illustration in 1911 is 2955 Tortworth Court, seen in Photographic Grey. With the 1946 section showing an actual Saint! no 2924 Saint Helena in the shirt button livery. In both cases they are coupled to the small 3500 gallon   tender.

 

Both locos look very striking and will be a great addition to the fleet at Henley on Thames.

 

 

[TrevorP1]

1 hour ago, Nick Gough said:

 

It must have been an engrossing conversation if they have managed to end up there!

Especially if they boarded at Penzance.

 

I'm told my parents actually did end up in the carriage sidings on their honeymoon. They were either misdirected or not paying attention and got on the wrong train...

[St Enodoc]

33 minutes ago, TrevorP1 said:

They were either misdirected or not paying attention

Yeah, right...

[Neal Ball]

1 hour ago, TrevorP1 said:

 

I'm told my parents actually did end up in the carriage sidings on their honeymoon. They were either misdirected or not paying attention and got on the wrong train...

Different times… in every sense!

 

Although just like the B and B they were booked into, they were turfed out in the morning!

[The Stationmaster]

6 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

You've reminded me, I need to add my comments to the model rail FB page!

Now there's an interesting idea.   I did some initial research some years ago for a concern which was thinking of producing one - basically trying to settle on which would be the best version to go for.  However the idea was never authorised for development beyond the early stages  'because all GWR 4-6-0s look the same' according to the decision makers.   But I wonder if that early research is still lurking somewhere - I shall make enquiries - because it might also fit with another idea which was voiced a couple of years back.

 

BTW the GWR Centenary publicity shot is one of several featuring at least one of the young ladies appearing in the one posted above - I think one of them also appears in a sleeping car photo as well as a restaurant car shot.  And the picture appears likely to have been taken at Old Oak as already suggested because the only other likely place for the juxtaposition of sidings and coal stage was Swindon and the number of lines looks wrong for there.

[Nick Gough]

4 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

Well observed Phil yes.

 

Can you work out what the furthest lady has in her hand? Today, we would say she is holding her iPhone! Surely it's not her ticket, it's a posed photo in carriage sidings....

 

Anyway, have a good day.

I don't think she is actually holding anything in her left hand. It looks to me as though the position of her fingers and the flopped over corner of her open book have created an optical illusion.

[Nick Gough]

3 hours ago, Harlequin said:

Just going back to the Saints for a minute.

 

I couldn't find anything about the class name either but I have a theory: The first Lot that had consistent features from which you could recognise a class were the Saints. The earlier lots were not consistent.

 

The three prototypes came first, obviously, with various differing features. Then the square-framed Scott series, most of which were built as 4-4-2s. Then the Ladies, again with square frames and variations in their boilers and fireboxes.

 

Then the Saint series shared all the features we recognise today - 4-6-0s with long cone boilers, long smokeboxes and curved frames (one of Holcroft's best contributions).

 

The Courts simply followed on with more or less the same features as the Saints - they had found a winning formula.

 

That sounds like a reasonable explanation to me.

[Dr Gerbil-Fritters]

14 hours ago, Harlequin said:

“Robins Bolitho” is a great name for a loco.

The ‘Present your case’ feature in this month’s Model Rail magazine is the Saint class.

It feels like the idea is gathering steam…

 

...especially now that the Saint class is no longer extinct!

[The Stationmaster]

7 hours ago, Neal Ball said:

 

I have just grabbed by 1971 David & Charles book "GWR engines, names & numbers" and looked at the 1911 section....

 

My expectation was that the locos were simply known as the 2900 class - which it says above the photo on Pg24 but the following page shows the locos from 2900 to 2998 - with the title "Saint class" 

 

So I'm no further forward in knowing why, but clearly the railway coined that phrase, rather than being a nickname from enthusiasts.

 

Interestingly the illustration in 1911 is 2955 Tortworth Court, seen in Photographic Grey. With the 1946 section showing an actual Saint! no 2924 Saint Helena in the shirt button livery. In both cases they are coupled to the small 3500 gallon   tender.

 

Both locos look very striking and will be a great addition to the fleet at Henley on Thames.

 

 

Look again Neal.  Page 24 (unnumbered) is blank in the 1911 book and the photo of  the 2 cylinder 4-6-0 (actually No. 175, Viscount Churchill) appears opposite page 9; there are no class lists used in the 1911 book and engine names are simply listed in alphabetical order with their running number and wheel arrangement.  

 

Class names first appear in the 1928 book with the photo of 'Totworth Court on p.24 opposite the class list under the heading 'Saint' Class on p.25 and class names were used in the subsequent editions published in 1938 and 1946.  the GWR very rarely used class names for iog fficial purpose simply using designation by number group or in the Chrurchward 40XX, 28XX etc fashion.

 

The Series 6 officially issued GWR postcards of locomotives was published in July 1908.  It uses the same photo of 'Viscount Churchill' as the 1911 engines book and describes it as 'Six-coupled bogie passenger engine ''Viscount Churchill''.   Another card in that series shows one of the two cylinder engines in 4-4-2 condition and describes it as 'Atlantic Type "Scott" Class "Ivanhoe".   The other class names i used on that series are 'City', 'Star' and 'County' although engine 2803 is referred to as 'Consolidation'.

 

The cards would have been published by the Publicity Dept but Series 6 used real photographs which had almost certainly been taken as 'official portraits' for the Loco Supt's Dept (which might have provided some information to the Publicity people?).  I think it most likely that the class designations were added by the Publicity Dept as they were of little use to anybody concerned with the working of engines.  And maybe someone in that dept fell upon the 'Saint' name because it sounded better than 'Lady Class' and of course the Saints came immediately after the Ladies in the final numbering scheme for the class.    

 

With tongue partially in cheek perhaps in retrospect the 'Court Class' might have fitted better with  'Castles', 'Halls', 'Granges' and 'Manors'?

[Neal Ball]

Another sound vehicle at henley on Thames:

 

A birthday present this week, see's the Dapol railcar no 11 sound fitted (video to follow)

 

This is a Zimo decoder (with stay alive); a single speaker and youchoos sounds. It's a bit of a tight fit, but it's all inside.

 

Seen here ready to depart from Platform 2:

 

and later in the day at Platform 1

 

I will sort out a video in the next couple of days and add here.

 

The addition of sound into this railcar now means that all 3 of my railcars are sound fitted. This brings to about 12 the number of sound fitted locos / railcars at Henley on Thames.

Edited April 3, 2022 by Neal Ball
photo changed

[MrWolf]

I also have one of those railcars,(lights but not sound) it's a great little model and runs beautifully, even on my trackwork! 

I might travel by train more often if they still had that much style.

[Harlequin]

56 minutes ago, Neal Ball said:

Another sound vehicle at henley on Thames:

 

A birthday present this week, see's the Dapol railcar no 11 sound fitted (video to follow)

 

This is a Zimo decoder (with stay alive); a single speaker and youchoos sounds. It's a bit of a tight fit, but it's all inside.

 

Seen here ready to depart from Platform 2:

 

 

and later in the day at Platform 1

 

 

I will sort out a video in the next couple of days and add here.

 

The addition of sound into this railcar now means that all 3 of my railcars are sound fitted. This brings to about 12 the number of sound fitted locos / railcars at Henley on Thames.

 

Watch out for the decoder overheating if you run it for a while - the result being that the sound volume disappears to almost nothing.

I had to cut ventilation holes in my railcars to allow more air circulation.

 

Edited December 9, 2021 by Harlequin

[Neal Ball]

39 minutes ago, Harlequin said:

 

Watch out for the decoder overheating if you run it for a while - the result being that the sound volume disappears to almost nothing.

I had to cut ventilation holes in mine to allow more air circulation.

 

Thanks for that Phil, I’ll take it apart and add more ventilation. 
 

In running it for about 20 minutes this afternoon I thought it was fairly quiet anyway!

[Neal Ball]

Parcel update:

My new control panel is still stuck in customs, but after a phone call today from UPS I am hoping that it will be delivered on Monday….

 

I still have all the Raspberry Pi details to hand…. Just in case…

 

To be continued….

[Neal Ball]

Friday GWS blog:

 

I think we are agreed that a 00 Saint is long over due… however, do you fancy a “Great Bear” 4-6-2 or a Dreadnought carriage? The Dreadnought is this Fridays blog at the GWS, at 70ft long these are huge and might be a bit long for Henley on Thames, but they are certainly different. By comparison the mark 3 carriage is 75’ long (23m).

 

The image here is the Great Bear seen with a train of Dreadnoughts at Twyford.

 

https://didcotrailwaycentre.org.uk/product.php/78/going-loco/a6c53d378aba0f5edb005de1f8d26697
 

Another good blog, thanks Drew @Castle

Edited April 3, 2022 by Neal Ball
photo changed