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RR&Co Get Together 27th March 2010 Manchester


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Good try, have an extra sausage roll on me.

 

The clock is ticking, days to do are getting few, hours to go are getting low. Do you all know where it is, when it is, how you are all getting there and what you have to bring. I do :)

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Getting giddy now, just over a week to go to the demo. I am trying desperately to get a bit learning in but failing miserably. I have time in a hotel each week but soon as i open the manual the eyelids piggin close.

 

I shall sit quietly in the corner with me dunces hat on i think and watch TTG work his magic.

 

Regards

 

Pete

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There are other things to do in hotel bedrooms that may well keep you awake. Try one but have the RR&Co manual in the other hand. :lol:

 

Not long now. I'm in France all next week and arrive back just in time for a mad dash north to set up shop. See you all there. Dont forget your laptops with the software installed.

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TTG i am attending on Saturday and really looking forward to it. But i have a burning question which i thought i would ask now rather than take away your tutorial time on Saturday.

 

My layout is an end to end affair Fiddle Yard to Branch terminus with a turntable. The automatic operation i want to achieve is principally as follows:

 

A mix of small goods and 2 coach passenger trains pulled by tanks travel from the fiddle yard to the terminus to a timetable i hope.

The arrival train enters the platform block brakes and stops over the uncoupler (block now occupied) The engine is now boxed in.

A tank will then come in from the shed or TT to couple to the rear end of the coaches or wagon then take the departure back to the fiddle yard.

The arrival tank then backs off to be turned ready for the next departing train.

This procedure continues until the fiddle yard is now full again.

 

Now the the burning question, the platform block will at some point have two engines i can understand how to brake and stop the arriving engine but its how to back in and stop the departing engine into the same block?

 

I plan to have two occupancy sensors one brake at the beginning of the block and one brake toward the end which will be the stop for the arriving loco to get it on the uncoupler. When the departing loco backs in, can the first sensor in the block only be used to both brake and stop the departing loco at the point it couples to the coaches?

 

Thanks in anticipation and look forward to meeting you next week. I have been playing with RR&co and have run it manually from my PC, unfortunately i have yet to get and fit the occupancy decoders so no block work yet.

 

Regards

 

Pete

post-7926-126916368898_thumb.jpg

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Pete, I too will be there on Saturday and am looking forward to it.

 

I am trying to do almost exactly the same as you, using the demo version of Silver. I think I can do it with two blocks (two detectors) in an awkward way by stopping the train near the buffers, waiting for the passengers to depart then backing up about 75ft (30cm) to position over the uncoupler, then running the engine forward again into the block at the buffers. The platform block with the train in it shows clear, and the new engine can run in without having to change any rules. The other end of the problem is coupling up the new engine: Using a single shifted stop marker in the platform block means that my longest train will be hit at threshold speed and pushed towards the buffers by about 20ft more than the shortest train before the engine reaches the stop marker. I am not planning to fit resistive axles to any stock so I am not sure if this approach can be made to work if the train is detected.

 

I have tried it on a simple test track with just the arrival engine so far.

 

There are several threads on the RR&Co forum looking at ways to get around this problem, but I am trying to avoid fitting magnets to all my engines and I do not want to pay the extra for Gold unless it is essential.

 

Perhaps TTG and some of the others on Saturday will have found ways of fixing this, at least we can pool ideas.

 

Brian

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Yes its a bit of a conundrum, just been through the Gold manual and they pretty well skirt the terminus operation all together from what i can see. I have had a scan through the forum following TTG's advice and have stumbled on a chap who is operating as we want but he has problem with uncoupling but i think his uncoupling are auto uncouplers in the loco.

 

I was thinking about two blocks as well, the first block is able to accommodate the loco plus coaches where the second block only need accommodate the loco. If everything is set right you should be able to stop a loco within mm's.

 

As for uncoupling Brian i plan to use kadees, so when the train arrives it stops on the magnet and uncouples, i should be able to draw the loco forward a tad in the schedule.

 

The automatic turntable operation is another challenge as its a Peco but as long as i can drive it for a fixed time period via a loco decoder in the schedule i will sort the alignment myself. My theory is sound.

 

This is why TTG's offer is so important and a great opportunity not to miss.

 

Is there where we agree to meet under the clock? look forward to meeting you on Saturday we can compare notes. I will have a Chicago hoody on no doubt.

 

Regards

 

Pete

 

 

 

Pete, I too will be there on Saturday and am looking forward to it.

 

I am trying to do almost exactly the same as you, using the demo version of Silver. I think I can do it with two blocks (two detectors) in an awkward way by stopping the train near the buffers, waiting for the passengers to depart then backing up about 75ft (30cm) to position over the uncoupler, then running the engine forward again into the block at the buffers. The platform block with the train in it shows clear, and the new engine can run in without having to change any rules. The other end of the problem is coupling up the new engine: Using a single shifted stop marker in the platform block means that my longest train will be hit at threshold speed and pushed towards the buffers by about 20ft more than the shortest train before the engine reaches the stop marker. I am not planning to fit resistive axles to any stock so I am not sure if this approach can be made to work if the train is detected.

 

I have tried it on a simple test track with just the arrival engine so far.

 

There are several threads on the RR&Co forum looking at ways to get around this problem, but I am trying to avoid fitting magnets to all my engines and I do not want to pay the extra for Gold unless it is essential.

 

Perhaps TTG and some of the others on Saturday will have found ways of fixing this, at least we can pool ideas.

 

Brian

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Pete,

 

Did you find this topic:

 

http://www.freiwald....pic.php?t=11450

 

(edit: The link is distorted, it should be www.freiwald.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11450 I've no idea why this happened)

 

This is the end of a series of topics about the problem, using Kadees, and they have all gone to great lengths to give the engine a jolt back. I assume they must have tried just stopping over the magnet and perhaps found it unreliable for opening the hooks. I use tension lock, although I would like to convert when every other problem is sorted(?) so I have no idea how easily Kadees will uncouple.

 

How did they do it full size? Did the engine pull away from the train before the departure engine coupled up, or did they just compress the buffers, uncouple and stay put?

 

Good luck with the turntable, that's a problem I don't have.

 

regards,

Brian

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Brian, no i haven't dug that deep yet, i only came to that conclusion yesterday after seeing a few videos on You Tube, just search kadee. At the moment i am using tension locks with cheapo uncoupling ramps. I feel the problem is getting the tension/weight/load off the coupling so it releases and have a similar scenario with the tension locks and ramps. But life would be boring if everything worked first time eh.

 

Regards

 

Pete

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wogga

send John Dew a PM, he done a tutorial on another forum doing what you want, this was with gold. i am going saturday so if you have problems send me a PM and i will print out the tutorial and bring it along. i am looking forward to saturday so see you all then.

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  • RMweb Gold

Hi Guys

 

Sorry I cant be at your get together......bit too far from Vancouver

 

This is my contribuition from the other side of the world

 

 

Kaydee Uncoupling

 

Set the stop marker so the train stops with the kaydees over the magnet

 

As as an operation at the finish of the schedule you do the Kaydee Shuffle

 

Delay 1sec

Reverse

Speed 8 mph

Delay .5 sec

Speed 0 mph

Delay 1 sec

Separate

 

This gives you a little jerk to uncouple and works like a charm

 

Two Engines in one block at a terminus (Gold)

 

Generally you only need one occupancy sensor in each block......with V7 Gold and Silver you can set up a multiplicity of different stop and brake markers controlling their activation with conditions

 

Schedule 1

Move Loco 1 with carriages into the destination block

The uncoupling magnet should be set so that when the rear of the loco is over the magnet the head of the train is about 3-4" from the buffers.

As an operation at the finish of the schedule do the kaydee shuffle but omit the "separate" ie the train will be physically uncoupled but not in TC

In place of "Separate" add:

 

Speed 5 mph

Delay 1 sec ......................... adjust this so loco moves clear of carriages and stops at buffers

Speed ..................................ie 0 mph

 

This sequence ensures the loco is well clear of the carriages when the 2nd loco couples up

 

Schedule 2

Moves Loco 2 into the destination block from Loco Spur

TC has to recognise that a second loco has moved into the block..... you do this by setting up a virtual contact in the destination block that is triggered by the contact indicator in the preceding block with a condition to prevent it being activated by schedule 1.

 

Set up a stop marker (with brake marker) so that the loco runs gently on to the carriages and continues forward for about an 1" to ensure coupling

 

Set up the schedule rules to allow traiins to enter occupied blocks for the purpose of joining

 

As an operation at the finish of the schedule

 

Join ................................. Loco 1, The Carriages and Loco 2 are now joined as one unit in TC

Delay 2 sec

Separate leftmost locmotive..............................You select separate in Train Operations and then change to select the appropriate option

Delay 2 sec

 

You need to insert delays to allow TC to do its stuff otherewise you get unexpected results!

So now TC reflects reality Loco 1 in the block separate from the Loco 2 coupled to the carriages

 

Schedule 3

 

Move train with loco2 out to branch?

 

Schedule 4

 

Move loco1 to loco spur

 

 

You have to be careful with conditions obviously..........but it works

 

If Matt brings his printout that is much more detailed with screen shots. If any of the guys are members of YMR (the other Forum) and bring a laptop it is set up there

 

Hope this helps good luck with the Get together

 

Regards from Vancouver

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Many thanks John for your comprehensive answer. Can you just confirm that this all happens in one block?

 

I feel more comfortable now and will not be tempted to hijack the get together on Saturday and bombard TTG with questions of a purely selfish nature.

 

Regards

 

Pete

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Hi John,

 

Thanks for that useful explanation. I've just looked at your Granby thread, it is very impressive and makes me determined to put more time into building my own layout.

 

I tried to view your tutorial but Your Model Railway is not accepting new registrations, is there any other way to access the information before Saturday?

 

Regards,

 

Brian

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Its all set up ready to go. Are you ?

 

Nice big screen to look at and the test track is in front for you all to see.

 

 

 

See you tomorrow :)

 

Alarm clock already set - hope the Virgins are performing properly tomorrow !

 

Andy

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