North British Railway 6 Wheel Coaches.

[nigelb]

Hi Nigel

 

Have a look here:

 

http://www.albarailwaymodels.co.uk/instructions.html

 

Regards.

Cheers Bill I  have looked there  as they  seem to  be the new owners of the range. unfortunately there are no instructions for this particular coach however  the other instructions do  give some guidence .. just need to identify if any  foot boards are used  and the size of the springs 

Nigel

[Shez]

Finally got the two almost finished coaches primed and ready for painting and detailing.

 

Quick picture of the First - will sort out a picture of the brake third when I have time.

 

 

 

Should be at York show on Easter Monday if anyone wants to say hello.

 

[nigelb]

Looking Good Shez

And the reason I have not posted an update on my  efforts is .......................... I have been waiting for a resistance soldering iron, it arrived this morning details in a while.

 

I rushed home to try it out on one of my  sample etches,  and am blown away how simple it was. Using 188 degree solder paint  from Eileen's ( usual disclaimer) i managed to get a sides worth of panels and droplights done in 45 mins, if any one is interested i will do a demo post of how i went about it  the only cleaning up  so far is a quick rub over with some 000 wire wool

 

the RSU i bought on line from a car restoration company called Frost restoration equipment ( once again just a happy satisfied customer) its a B280 carbon resistance soldering system,it has 2 settings  normal and heavy duty 

so now i think i better get a grip and start on the real coaches.

[Shez]

A post on how you did it would be good.

 

I have never really considered an RSU but having seen a few examples of work done with them recently it seems to give a good finish and save a lot of mess.

 

Are they OK to use in a home environment or do you need some workshop space?

[jamie92208]

A post on how you did it would be good.

 

I have never really considered an RSU but having seen a few examples of work done with them recently it seems to give a good finish and save a lot of mess.

 

Are they OK to use in a home environment or do you need some workshop space?

They're fine at home Mark. You just need a desk that you can put the baseplate and control unit on and space underneath for the foot pedal that switches it on and off.

 

 

Jamie

[nigelb]

Ok as requested  my take on using a resistance soldering unit

 

1 you need a earth plate  i called into a steel stockist  and asked for an off cut about 3 to 6 mm thick  and  roughly 300 by 200 mm the chap laughed  so i told him what it was for he gave me an off cut from the scrap bin for a fiver

2 took this home and drilled a 5mm hole in one corner  put a brass nut and 2 cm long bolt in  to fit the earth clip too  pic 1

3 lined the back of the plate with 2 cork tiles   to protect my desk

The RSU has a normal 13 A plug leading to a box with a red button to double the power output  , used on thick brass i guess.

give the plate a good wipe down with a degreaseing cleaner  and dry

the only tools you will need are

2 or 3 heavy duty fridge magnets to hold things down

a proder   to help keep things in place  I used an ild needle file

a  thin sheet of ply to go between the brass being soldered and the steel plate ( it will act as a heat sink making soldering difficult )

 a paint brush to apply the solder paint

some loo roll of kitchen roll

 

And so to work

1 clean up the parts to be joined  in this case the inlay panels were filed to remove the etching tabs

2 degrease the brass parts.

3  with a fibre glass brush or wire wool clean the surfaces to be joined  pic 2

4 apply a coat of solder paint to the area to be soldered  pic 3 

5 lay the coach side onto but over hanging at one end  the thin ply hold the free end down with a couple of magnets

6 put the  panels into place and holding there wipe off any excess solder paint

6 with your chosen prodder hold the panel in place and apply the carbon rod  to the panel corner count 6 seconds and you should see a bead of solder in the corner

7 repeat  in each corner  and for each panel

8 turn over and  apply the carbon rod to the reverse of each panel cross member

9. clean up with hot water and some thing like civ cream

give a health scrub with a fibre glass brush and your done

 

hope this is of use to people

 

[jrg1]

You may find rare earth magnets useful when using an RSU and baseplate.  I find the baseplate tends to discolour and rust quickly-probably due to the solder, but also the cleaned steel face is susceptible in anything other than dry conditions.  After using, a wipe down with a cleaner, and a coat of WD40 should avoid this.

[nigelb]

A day shopping with SWMBO  allowed mt a wander in Maplins  when  a box of mixed nails ( pins) was purchased ply a sheet of copper-clad PCB   destined to be used for compartment dividers  ) I think these will help keep things a bit more rigid  and a dispenser  full of resin flux.

[nigelb]

NBRSG  membership sent off

[jamie92208]

Just to let readers know I only have 2 of the original etches left plus one of the cheaper ones.  I'll have them with me on the Bring and Buy stall at Doncaster if you want to purchase any of them.

 

Jamie

[nigelb]

nbrsg  member  whoo  7mm  guild member lathe  just needs  connecting to the motor  and im  al sorted  i really now have no reason  to not complete my  coqches

[Shez]

The first and the brake third have had another visit to the paintshop and are now in their NBR colours

 

 

 

 

As I have said before, I am not going to get into arguments about exact shades in use almost a century ago!  I first sprayed the coach body with a can of Halfords Rover Damask Red. Once dry I then brush painted a thin coat of Phoenix Precision NBR coach crimson over the top. This gives a nice faded look to the paintwork. Its just a personal thing but I tend to spray for steel, and brush paint for wooden bodied vehicles. The underframes  were sprayed with Halfords satin black. The result is a colour that looks quite different in different lights from purplish to brownish - so that's the effect I wanted. It looks nothing like the colour in the photo!

 

I have not decided if I am going to line them yet as by the post world war one period the lining was often discontinued. I have however included the red end to the brake third which also seems to have disappeared about this time. But then evidence is contradictory and they are my coaches!

 

We are off to the caravan in Scotland for part of the summer hols, so they can come with me for final detailing. Given they are the test etches I am pleased with how they look, and I am now getting a much clearer view of how I will tackle the next batch.

[nigelb]

whooo just ordered a G7   so  best i  get cracking on with the coaches

[Shez]

Despite other stuff meaning I am getting very little model making done I have managed to get the two coaches lined while at the caravan and am now putting on the lettering.

 

Can anyone help with the following.

 

Despite trawling through all my books and NBR articles I cant seem to find what numbers the coaches would carry in NBR days - any ideas anyone?

 

The position of the lettering and crests on the brake third.  Was there a single crest on the guards ducket or did they carry two on each side on the doors?

 

There seem to be loads of good views of four wheelers but most of the pictures of the six wheelers seem to be in LNER days or two far away to be clear.

[Shez]

Here is some evidence of the latest progress on the First Class carriage.

 

 

I have added the lining, which is my first effort with my new bowpen. The caravan proved to be excellent for this as the natural light is really good to see what you are doing. I used Humbrol Gloss number 7 for this. For a first effort I am pleased with the results. 

 

Lettering is the NBR transfers from Guilplates. They seem slightly over scale but the overall look is good. If you read my previous post I still have to add the numbers to the currently empty waist panel. 

 

The T handles are LNWR pattern from Laurie Griffen. Close enough!

 

At this rate I am getting surprisingly close to a completed coach!

[PeterR]

Hi Shez,

 

Excellent work it' s looking very good!

 

 

Don;t forget to paint the drop windows (in the doors) frames a light brown colour, and the lower panels need lining out.

 

Can your bowpen get into that narrow space between the door vent and the edge of the panelling at all?

 

Congratulations!

 

Yours Peter

[ianmaccormac]

For the RSU base plate, living near the sea, I suffer from it rusting quickly so I have started to just wrap a bit of kitchen foil around it and use that as the base plate. Works well so far and easy to renew.

My problem is a braced leg from a broken knee which means I can't actually fit beneath the workbench to do anything at the moment! Being six foot one inch and having one leg straight out in front of you limits where you can sit!

Cheers

Ian in Blackpool

[Shez]

Hi Shez,

 

Excellent work it' s looking very good!

 

 

Don;t forget to paint the drop windows (in the doors) frames a light brown colour, and the lower panels need lining out.

 

Can your bowpen get into that narrow space between the door vent and the edge of the panelling at all?

 

Congratulations!

 

Yours Peter

 

Thank you for those encouraging words Peter and to others who have commented. It's been a long road of trial and error - but I am getting there.

 

I was wondering whether to do the window frames - I will now.

 

I have made a note that on the next build I will do the lining before adding the vents - don't want to spoil the look - this model is very much a test for the others to follow.

 

I am not sure about the lower panel lining - having looked at a lot of photos I am not sure if all these six wheelers had the full lining - certainly the main line bogie coaches had.  By 1923 some six wheelers had lost their lining completely. Would be interested in the expert view on this!

 

I did a little more research on the numbers using the NBR study group site, and it seems that there is no definite evidence on this. The only coach of a similar diagram where the number is known  is number 414 which went off the Tay Bridge! Not wanting to tempt fate I have numbered mine 412. 

 

I must admit it has turned out better than I expected - I just hope it encourages others to have a go at building their own stock and locos.

[nigelb]

whoooo i am now the proud owner of all 3 of G.W.M. Sewells  books  a bit of shopping over the weekend  for  a couple of sheets of brass and i  now have NO excuse for not cracking on with my 6 wheel  coach collection , 4 wheel coach ( one off)  the pile of waggons in the gloat pile  and my G7  thats  coming on nicely Pics to follow on my blog  next week

Shez im looking forward to seeing your coaches   at  Whaley in nov. have you  had any  joy with the coach commode handles?

[Shez]

I cant quite believe I am typing this but one of the coaches is actually completed!  In the end I went along with the suggestion from Nigel and used the LNER commode handles from Laurie Griffen. Squeezed out a bit with pliers, they are only slightly too short and look convincing. It was then just a case of brake blocks made from card, as was the simple interior. I junked the plasticard interior I had made before as I was not happy with it. Glazing was then fitted. I then added westinghouse pipes form 62C, NBR crests from Guilplates, and all was put back together.

 

 

Apologies for the quality of the photo - it gets dark so early at this time of year.

 

So its now on to complete the brake third.

 

So after delivery well behind schedule its into revenue earning service - now when am I going to get time to build a layout?

[nigelb]

awesome Shez  the 1st completed of many  hope i can now get off my arse n do mine . who knows  one ex  we could get a whole train of  8 or 9   behind a suitable loco

[Shez]

Only problem is we would need a layout the size of Jamie's Green Ayre for a train of that length! 

 

Seriously, I must give a big thank you to Jamie, who without his kind offer to do the original etches and put the hours in drawing the CAD, these coaches would not have been produced - I would still be messing about with bits of plasticard and failing miserably.  

 

Lots of help from lots of you on here, the NBR study group, and advice from Peter Mullen and Laurie Griffen about suitable detailing parts. I hope it encourages people to do the same - I have started from a zero skills base. There are 200 years of railway history to go at and all sorts of stuff you can model if you take the plunge, are prepared to learn from what goes wrong, and accept it will get a bit better each time. 

 

I must say that I am looking forward to subsequent builds - Although I am pleased with the final result, I know that now I have worked through the first one I know the pitfalls and can do far better. This is particularly true of the underframe which is best not looked at too closely! The build sequence will be quite different next time round. 

[jamie92208]

I've seen the coach on the static models display at our show at Wakefield which is in this weekend. It looks very nice and I must admit it's a nice feeling to see the first piece of rolling stock that I've ever drawn up actually in the flesh as you might say. I certainly learned a lot in the process. Hopefully Mark will be bringing his coach and his NBR locos to Warley next week and they can have a run on Green Ayre. Mark and I do still have two etches left to sell of the batch that we had done and if anyone is interested I could take them to Warley next week.

 

Jamie

[Shez]

It has been some time since an update as I have been working on other projects for the last couple of months. (see my Shez's workbench thread), but I have now picked up on the coaches again. There has been some further work on the brake third, with door handles and glazing added. I am just waiting for some more grab handles from Laurie Griffen to complete the sides. There are then just a few small details and the interior to complete.

 

 

I have also made a few adjustments to the underframe which means it runs better. Here it is with the completed All First on my newly constructed test track. Both these coaches were built from the test etches and have been very much built "on the fly", making it up as I went along.  Given that, I am pleased with the outcome and am sure that in true railway tradition they will serve until better replacements come along!

 

 

I have now begun an All Third. This will be the first coach I have produced from the etches in their final form, and this time I have a definite build sequence in mind, and all the prototype information I need before I begin. The NBR study group has re released the excellent book on NBR coaches by GWM Sewell which contains a wealth or information. This means that I have begun this time with the underframe. Possessing an accurate drawing means that I can give a much better representation of the underframe and brake gear, within the confines of using the six wheel suspension units from Jim McGeowan. The Westinghouse cylinder is from Laurie Griffen, but everything else has been sourced from the scrap box using bits of etch left over from building locos, and some brass tube from my local art shop, the excellent Calder Graphics in Huddersfield from whom I have got loads of materials. At present nothing is yet fixed down.

 

 

I envisage this to be a much quicker build with another brake third to follow. I am then looking to use one of the surviving test etches, which had some mistakes, to be cut up into bits to attempt to construct a four wheel brake which were very much part of NBR Branch trains.

Edited March 19, 2018 by Shez

[gobbler]

Tidy!

 

Some nice models there

 

Scott