7mm and larger Modelling Down Under - Layouts & Modelling projects

[south_tyne]

Chris seems to be off line at the moment David so perhaps I can help.

This link should give you some insight into the hoppers.

 

http://fourwheelsnoaircoal.blogspot.com.au/2009/05/hunter-valley-coal-wagons.html

 

In summary there are two basic versions of the ones you are referring to

1) the non air private hoppers ( seen only in the Hunter Valley)

2) the NSWGR air braked versions (seen all over the system)

 

At least one private owner had some air braked versions for accessing their mine much further up the Hunter Valley than the rest of the mines. These had to traverse much higher country and use the govt track. Most of the mines used two separate tracks running beside the govt main lines to access the port.

 

Here is one supplier of the private ones.

https://modelokits.com/nswgr-non-air-private-owners-coal-hopper-wagon-o-aust-kits/

 

cheers

Bob Comerford

Hi Bob,

 

Thank you very much, that information is fascinating! They are very 'British' in appearance and the link is very informative given my lack of knowledge of the prototype.

 

They look like lovely kits too... albeit pricey! (although every aspect of modelling seems to be so I Australia!)

 

Thanks again for your help,

David

[robertc]

No worries David, glad it helped!

 

Anything other than HO is likely to remain very expensive here.

Small market, fragmented by two scales and several isolated prototypes means very short runs. None of our manufacturers is likely to retire on the proceeds. Many do it to get the models themselves and there are just enough well heeled to purchase their excess.

I'm not one of them unfortunately so my layout abounds with a lot of home made. :>)

 

cheers

 Bob

[60012 Commonwealth of Australia]

Have just spent a couple of afternoons reading this. It's very nice to see that there's some Australian stuff being done in O gauge, especially considering how expensive it can get sometimes.

 

I especially love what you did with the water tower on Moonan Flats, very well done and looks amazing!

 

Hope all is well, and I look forward to seeing an update soon!

 

Peter

Edited September 2, 2016 by 60012 Commonwealth of Australia

[hartleymartin]

Hi Bob,

 

Thank you very much, that information is fascinating! They are very 'British' in appearance and the link is very informative given my lack of knowledge of the prototype.

 

They look like lovely kits too... albeit pricey! (although every aspect of modelling seems to be so I Australia!)

 

Thanks again for your help,

David

 

The design goes back to the 1880s as far as I can recall, and is unique to the NSW Hunter Valley Coalfields, in particular, the feature where the entire hopper can be lifted out of the frame and lowered by crane into a ship's hold to prevent the coal lumps from being pulverised.

 

There was a variation on this design using fixed hoppers with bottom-discharge doors for the coal railways of the NSW South Coast which tended to have softer coal, which would be used in power stations and as such it was desirable to have the lumps broken up into smaller pieces.

[Budgie]

Here is one supplier of the private ones.

https://modelokits.com/nswgr-non-air-private-owners-coal-hopper-wagon-o-aust-kits/

In the photo of the built kit it looks like the brake gear has been assembled the wrong way round. The brakes are not in line with the wheels, and pushing the lever down will move the brakes further away from the wheels.

Edited September 3, 2016 by Budgie

[SMR CHRIS]

Hi everyone sorry had a few internet access issues and it's been so long since I needed a password to access RM that I couldn't remember what it was.

Thanks for all the nice comments and the 98 likes.

 

Thanks all who answered the questions re the Hoppers

 

As far as the origins of the hopper kits on the Layout all I can say is Unknown origin but very very old white metal kit under frames with a resin cast hopper.

I also have a lot that were produced in plastic for bergs hobbies but these need a lot of work to get them to run I think they were made in India as a RTR but they would never run with wonky wheels and wrongly drilled Axle boxes when I get around to it I will finish rebuilding them. Takes a while as I have to deconstruct each and rebuild.

 

Budgie you look to be correct on the brake gear on the Kit from ModelOKits

Not many understand how these work it is often seen the wrong way around on kit built models

They must have skipped that Physics class.

[south_tyne]

The design goes back to the 1880s as far as I can recall, and is unique to the NSW Hunter Valley Coalfields, in particular, the feature where the entire hopper can be lifted out of the frame and lowered by crane into a ship's hold to prevent the coal lumps from being pulverised.

 

There was a variation on this design using fixed hoppers with bottom-discharge doors for the coal railways of the NSW South Coast which tended to have softer coal, which would be used in power stations and as such it was desirable to have the lumps broken up into smaller pieces.

 

Thanks Martin, interesting stuff. I always take interest in Hunter Valley and Newcastle area in particular, if for nothing else that I'm from near Newcastle in the UK and a lot of the place names are the same and we share that common coal mining and industrial history!! 

 

No worries David, glad it helped!

 

Anything other than HO is likely to remain very expensive here.

Small market, fragmented by two scales and several isolated prototypes means very short runs. None of our manufacturers is likely to retire on the proceeds. Many do it to get the models themselves and there are just enough well heeled to purchase their excess.

I'm not one of them unfortunately so my layout abounds with a lot of home made. :>)

 

cheers

 Bob

 

Yes I can understand that - to be honest it seems to be the way things are going in the UK, albeit with a much larger market, with short runs/increased prices etc (but we won't open that can of worms here!).

I do find Australian railways very interesting having visited your wonderful country a few years ago, although my knowledge is rather limited. 

 

Hi everyone sorry had a few internet access issues and it's been so long since I needed a password to access RM that I couldn't remember what it was.

Thanks for all the nice comments and the 98 likes.

 

Thanks all who answered the questions re the Hoppers

 

As far as the origins of the hopper kits on the Layout all I can say is Unknown origin but very very old white metal kit under frames with a resin cast hopper.

I also have a lot that were produced in plastic for bergs hobbies but these need a lot of work to get them to run I think they were made in India as a RTR but they would never run with wonky wheels and wrongly drilled Axle boxes when I get around to it I will finish rebuilding them. Takes a while as I have to deconstruct each and rebuild.

 

Budgie you look to be correct on the brake gear on the Kit from ModelOKits

Not many understand how these work it is often seen the wrong way around on kit built models

They must have skipped that Physics class.

 

Thanks Chris,

 

No need to apologise at all! Thanks for the additional information on the hoppers, I'm very taken by the prototypes.

Keep sharing your work through the forum, it's of the highest class and truly inspiring!

 

David

[robertc]

Hi Chris ,good to see you back.

I never expanded that picture of the coal hopper before. I doubt that was assembled as it should have been :>)

cheers

 Bob

[SMR CHRIS]

Hi Chris ,good to see you back.

I never expanded that picture of the coal hopper before. I doubt that was assembled as it should have been :>)

cheers

Bob

Hi Bob

Been having Telstra internet issues the connection is so slow at the moment lucky to get 1.05MBS down and 0.03 up

 

Bob I think that the hopper from the Oaust kit is one of the Upper Hunter Colliery possibly Muswellbrook and possibly the builder "Unknown" skipped or missed physics classes at school as Budgie was very observant in that the brakes can't be applied, may be they where under pressure to build quick and just missed it.

 

For David "South_Tyne"

Hopefully this plan of the Lampton Colliery hopper, helps

Edited September 5, 2016 by SMR CHRIS

[SMR CHRIS]

It's been a while since a Moonan Flats Update however something shiny arrived in the yard recently and hopefully with a new internet connection I may be able to upload photos again without it timing out

 

The new loco was on trial up the steep grades to the Flats and the local Gunsels where out getting photos

All shiny and new it's a NSWGR 45 class Alco No4520 effectively a hood version of the earlier 44class DL500 Alco with some upgrades.

 

 

4520 with 4427 in the bay

 

 

 

[robertc]

I have just got to clean the slobber off my screen Chris.

cheers

 Bob

Good to see you back.

[SMR CHRIS]

I have just got to clean the slobber off my screen Chris.

cheers

 Bob

Good to see you back.

Thanks Bob it's an impressive machine lights everywhere

They have fixed the drive issue no more rubber tubes has nice machined shafts.

And a very smooth runner.

 

Just waiting for a decoder now From TCS

[SMR CHRIS]

Some more scenic additions

The obligatory Palm near the water tank and some grass trees to give a point of interest at the edge of the layout to back scene.

 

Alco 4427 has arrived at Moonan Flats

The grass trees and Palm in the background.

 

[SMR CHRIS]

Installing DCC in a non DCC ready/compliant O scale Australian locomotive.

 

Moonan Flats latest loco get DCC fitted.

 

The model in the SMR work shop is a NSW 45 class RTR brass model

It has an amazing 26 LED lights throughout the model all factory fitted.

Some of which are Headlights Marker lights white/ red front and rear, cab lights, number box, step, coupler etc

It has a nice PC board with a set of switches that allows in DC mode you to turn on or off the lights however as nice as this is some of the Circuits are not compatible with DCC so it was a choice of remove it or modify it to convert to DCC

 

 

The LED polarity orientation is used to have directional lighting

And where a light needs to be on in both direction like the Cab lights they simply have 2 LED one lights forward the other lights in reverse instead of a Bridge rectifier and one LED.

 

1/2 of the LED wires needed transposing so they all worked in the same polarity with the decoder doing the switching now

 

A quick look at the PC board and I took some photos of it so I could zoom in and see where the traces went on the board and a plan was made to modify the board this would save installing a huge number of resistors the PC board is fitted with 28 SM 2k resistors if the board could be used with traces cut and some link wires to the decoder this would save a lot of new resistors and making a new circuit board.

 

One of the Photo's below shows the spaghetti wiring and my images of the PC board that I printed out, this made it nice and easy To make the mods I had marked up, was so much easier to see at the size af a A4 sheet than if looking at the little board.

I only had to make up 2 additions for the marker lights operation with 2- 2k SM resistors on separate copper clad.

 

The model has marker lights and the white ones had a very different colouring at each end so I replaced the 2 at the leading end with a similar warm white LED to the No2 end, as they were more orange as Supplied may have been Picked wrong when the models wiring was made?

So after waiting for the adhesive on these LED's to set before I tidied up of the harness in the body and a temporary mount of the TCS G8 decoder to the Long hood roof I could test and all the lights worked.

 

A TCS WOW 5 amp sound decoder will be substituted when it arrives from TCS with true ALCO sounds

The G8 is just to get it operational.

Link to a clip of the first test

 

 

Wiring done, the printed out photos of the little PC ready help as it is easy to follow the tracks with it this Big rather than looking with a magnifier to see where the traces go on the Board

 

This is the quick marked up image of the PC board with links for the function wires marked and cut lines to separate the circuit's

 

What you find when first looking at the wiring.

[Simond]

Chris

 

Very brave, but worth it I'm sure!

 

Best

Simon

[robertc]

That will keep you busy for a few hours Chris. I would probably get a piece of perfboard and start again if it were mine. Good luck!

One of these days I must get to it and fix the 49 class wiring.

cheers

 Bob

[SMR CHRIS]

That will keep you busy for a few hours Chris. I would probably get a piece of perfboard and start again if it were mine. Good luck!

One of these days I must get to it and fix the 49 class wiring.

cheers

Bob

May have been easier to do a new board if the factory board couldn't have been modified but it seemed a shame to have to use a pile of new resistors when I could get away with only 4 new instead of 26 I would have needed, However this has turned out to be a relatively easy mod to the board and a few wires swaped

After I took the quick video I set up the decoder on "Decoder pro" and the loco runs very nicely very good pulling power I also replaced the Kadee coupler's as supplies on the model, with the Procraft scale knuckle coupler's that I have standardised on.

 

Very happy with this model it has been a first for me with RTR NSW O scale to get a model that works from the box with all its detail still fitted

 

I can fault only 2 things so far, 1 is that the body has provision for 8 mounting screw only 4 were fitted as the ones in the center section don't quite line up with the chassis holes possibly all models like are like this I will ream out the holes to get them alined to fit some screws when I install the sound decoder.

2 the short hood marker lights being Orange a easy replacement when I did the DCC conversion.

Edited March 15, 2017 by SMR CHRIS

[SMR CHRIS]

Chris

Very brave, but worth it I'm sure!

Best

Simon

Hi Simon, thanks yes it has been worth it.

It was train running night at Moonan Flats a few nights ago and the loco ran perfectly all its lights worked and whilst at its size, its not an ideal shunter the slow running quality's make it very useable for the task also made the operators think a little more as they could only get one wagon in the run round unlike when using a small loco.

 

Re brave

I have discovered that there isn't much in the world that can't be fixed it's just a mater of joining the dots and following the lines.

Luckily have spent years diagnosing automotive electronic problems and trying to find a fix in the feild, for a large Mulitnational Automotive company so striping a model train isn't really "Brave" for me doing it to someone's 80k vehicle yes may be.

Edited March 15, 2017 by SMR CHRIS

[Simond]

Hi Chris,

 

After many years in the auto business, in the component design & supply side, it's funny how you can get blasé about things like "30 million quid", and yet still get the jitters over a £100 decoder! I suppose if it all went pear shaped, the 30 million wasn't coming out of my bank account...

 

And given that I have a Land Rover, please don't talk about electrical issues.

 

Best

Simon

[SMR CHRIS]

Victory Down Under

Ixion models had a selection of the Minerva models locos with them at the Aus7 forum recently and I couldn't resist getting one of the hefty looking Kerr Stuart Victory models here it is stopping for water at Moonan Flats it's a very nice runner and will pull more wagons than you could fit on the layout, also took it round to give it a run on my dads layout (it's way bigger than my layout) as well more to give it a run in, it makes for a great yard shunter with really good slow running.

 

And from a small loco to a big loco, one of my older NSWGR C38 by Fox Models number 3813

 

I've also been building a MCE 72'6" 12 wheeler Carriage and a VHO passenger Guards/parcels van

 

 

 

 

When finished the new cars will complement my TAM 12wheeler

 

Mould for making the roof section

 

Not quite right first Test castings painted up for demo build purpose.

 

 

I prepainted the test casting sides before I had the ends cast just to see how they would look.

 

After the first test castings where done and checked volume of urethane resin worked out etc this is the result for the VHO again prepainted need to cast up some more ends now for the carriages doors etc

 

Edited April 7, 2017 by SMR CHRIS

[SMR CHRIS]

H haven't taken any photos of the MCE and VHO at there part assembled stage but I had them on display at the local O scale meet and there was a video clip done and I got a screen shot from it of the cars part assembled on display.

 

MCE 12 wheeler part assembled

 

 

VHO also part assembled with a roof off cut placed. To keep the sides straight when people were handling

This also shows the parts of the car with the one piece ends and the corridors conection that is sprung and articliates painted black contrasting against the white of the urithane

 

Edited April 8, 2017 by SMR CHRIS

[robertc]

Well done Chris!

Cheers

 Bob

[SMR CHRIS]

Some photos of a recent running session.

Lots of shunting made a bit more complicated by the fact that there are only a few wagons fitted with transition link couplers some locos only have hooks as with a few wagons, so careful planing of the shunt is required.

It's interesting to see some operators shunt them selves into a corner and others solve the puzzle in a minimum number of shunts, timing from 10 minutes to the 48minute record that may stand for some time.

 

3213 has finished shunting the yard

 

 

The trains Guard await's departure time before giving the right away.

 

 

 

3108 arrives with the Local Passenger the end veranda car with the pannel side is a Grayhound transport carriage coded RG that has transported the locals back to town with there dishlikers after a away race meet one side of the carriage has seating the other has rows of dog boxes

 

After making up the departing local 3108 waits for the passengers to board before making its way back to the mainline junction and a connection to the big smoke.

 

The RG is shunted to the bay and the EHO Guards van attached. The small HG Guards van that arrived on the passenger has been left in the yard.

Happydays for the Guards with the bogie EHO

Edited April 25, 2017 by SMR CHRIS

[robertc]

Looking good there Chris. Sounds like you all had a good day shuffling stock about.

 

I am expecting a visitor from Casino to see the layout tomorrow.  Hopefully the rain has passed by then.  I'm afraid cardboard and water don't mix well :>)

 

cheers

 Bob

[SMR CHRIS]

Looking good there Chris. Sounds like you all had a good day shuffling stock about.

I am expecting a visitor from Casino to see the layout tomorrow. Hopefully the rain has passed by then. I'm afraid cardboard and water don't mix well :>)

cheers

Bob

Thank Bob yes a few hours of running plenty of enjoyment even in the small space.

Best of luck with the weather Bob, it's nice and sunny down on the Coast hopefully you get some of the shine so you can have a good session out in the yard.

Edited April 26, 2017 by SMR CHRIS