6029 King Stephen Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 I have been building a layout with C&L/Copperclad point and trackwork but this is a slow process. Living for the next few years in Africa where it will be difficult to get hold of Butanone or liquid flux and I can't have either sent to me, I have been thinking about building a layout using Peco Streamline to build a layout based on a Hornby trackplan. I can replace all the set track with flexi and would change all points from small radius to either medium or large radius. My question is: The plan is from the days when Hornby locos could go round 1st radius curves so the curves are generally 1st, 2nd and a few 3rd radius. Wanting to use modern locos including some planned kit built and wanting to maintain my three link coupled stock I would be looking to increase the curvature to the same dimensions as 3rd and 4th radius curves. How much extra would needed to be added to the width to accommodate the change in radius? Thanks, Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Can I suggest that you buy half a circle of 4th radius curves and lay it out with a couple of straights on either end. decide on your safe minimum to the edge of the board and that's the width. Remember that the points are 2nd(?) radius so won't fit smoothly in a larger curve. Be prepared to use some flexi-track to allow for mis-matches. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightbe Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 You can surely buy a similar plastic solvent in South Africa to continue with C&L components, right? In my mind it's a bit silly to think "Oh if I can't get the exact stuff I always used I won't bother trying". On the same lines, I imagine there must be stores that sell flux in a liquid form (though many would say that flux is unnecessary for this if using cored solder--copperclad construction is pretty foolproof). On the topic of radius, I don't think you'll have much success with 3-links below a 30" radius. Below that (especially with fixed buffers on wagons etc), bufferlocking would cause constant derailments. Quentin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 If you allow an extra 6" per side for a circle that should be right, 6" radius 12" diameter. Better still forget the Hornby track plan and use a Peco track plan, 60 lplans for small railways etc by CJ Freezer which were arranged for Peco points with minimum point radius of 2 feet and 2ft mainline curves. Avoid set track points which are actually 15" radius where it matters. If space is at a premium using peco streamline Y points can save valuable space. I have several 1960 ish Railway Modeller and Model Railway News Magazines and the track plans in them are very much more railway like than the modern stuff. The trade off being in those days the guys typically had half a dozen engines , six coaches and a dozen wagons, so hidden sidings were not very useful as there was nothing to hide! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ejstubbs Posted July 22, 2015 Share Posted July 22, 2015 Avoid set track points which are actually 15" radius where it matters. 15 inches is 1st radius. All modern Peco and Hornby Setrack points use 2nd radius curvature (~17") in the normal and curved turnouts - 1st radius only exists as a option for curved track sections, it doesn't appear in their points any more. As you say, the Y point offers a more relaxed curvature, as do the Hornby express points. (ISTR that you've made this assertion about Setrack point radii a number of times recently. I do think you might at least modify your prejudices a little to keep up with changes in the world outside.) Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
6029 King Stephen Posted July 23, 2015 Author Share Posted July 23, 2015 Thanks for your replies. I am actually in Cameroon rather than South Africa. Here there are no model shops and I haven't seen white spirit or paint even. I have all the Peco Cyril Freezer plan books and can't find anything that appeals to me except a couple of terminus type layouts and I would rather go for something continuous. My plan B is to model Bridestowe with Lake/Southerly and Lydford viaducts at each end in N Gauge but using the new track system that is similar to C&L - I will have to wait on visits to UK to stock up with solvent and flux. A bit of modeller's licence will see the use of the new Grafar Merchant Navy and N class moguls (the latter of course don't need any licence). Steve Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 15 inches is 1st radius. All modern Peco and Hornby Setrack points use 2nd radius curvature (~17") in the normal and curved turnouts - 1st radius only exists as a option for curved track sections, it doesn't appear in their points any more. As you say, the Y point offers a more relaxed curvature, as do the Hornby express points. (ISTR that you've made this assertion about Setrack point radii a number of times recently. I do think you might at least modify your prejudices a little to keep up with changes in the world outside.) Sorry ejsstubbs you are demonstrably wrong. Set track (Toy) points have a straight section of about three sleepers at the toe and more at the heel. This brings the radius through the curved section down to around 15" radius. Likewise some 2' nominal radsius points are actually around 20" or 3rd radius. The old 1st Radius Hornby Dublo points had almost no straight bits and were much nearer 15" minimum radius. I have several locos with Romfords all flanged with little sideplay and I find that any loco which will get through Peco 2' radius points will also get round 3rd radius curves, Actually they get round 3rd Radius better than round my attempts at 2' radius flexi track. The really bad feature of set track is the excessive track spacing. It is fun to lay on the floor for the kids, you can cut it up for docks and tramways but realistic it is not. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mightbe Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Oops, I had misread "Africa" as if it had been preceded by "South", which as a more developed nation I thought would be easy to find MEK at a hardware shop (tis the same as butanone, only a cheaper way to get it and more of it). Quentin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Sorry ejsstubbs you are demonstrably wrong. Set track (Toy) points have a straight section of about three sleepers at the toe and more at the heel. This brings the radius through the curved section down to around 15" radius. Likewise some 2' nominal radsius points are actually around 20" or 3rd radius. The old 1st Radius Hornby Dublo points had almost no straight bits and were much nearer 15" minimum radius. I have several locos with Romfords all flanged with little sideplay and I find that any loco which will get through Peco 2' radius points will also get round 3rd radius curves, Actually they get round 3rd Radius better than round my attempts at 2' radius flexi track. The really bad feature of set track is the excessive track spacing. It is fun to lay on the floor for the kids, you can cut it up for docks and tramways but realistic it is not. They can fit into a second radius curve, circle etc without upsetting the geometry. Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyMay Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 In principle, yes, but remember that some of the track plans produced by Hornby/Peco etc for their toy set-track track are very toylike in themselves. You need to give more information if you want a specific plan stretched or butchered to order. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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