Lenz 0 gauge locos and ZTC 511 System

[railwayrod]

Hello Everyone.

 

I am making a bit of an appeal for help to solve a problem which has recently arisen. My O gauge layout Ramchester runs perfectly well on analogue and to date I have no desire to change to DCC on this layout (See RMweb/7mm+modelling/The Ramchester Chronicles).

 

Last year I became interested in German Era 3 railways and purchased a couple of Lenz locos and some stock in 0 gauge. Lenz locos come fully fitted with sound decoders and designed to operate on DCC. I have a DB class 64 tank loco which runs very well with my ZTC 511 controller (not used to control Ramchester) BUT the V100 Bo-Bo diesel refuses to do anything. On going through the instructions I have discovered ways of checking if the address is correct (Lenz seems to have a policy of programming their locos with the same number as the class - hence my class 64 is programmed to respond to loco 64. I have just purchased a further Lenz loco this time a V160 Bo-Bo diesel which responds to loco 160 and which rums with no problems.

 

My question is why oh why does my V100 remain completely dead?

 

Can anyone help?

 

Rod

[dymstocklr]

Hi Rod

Are you going to Whimple tomorrow? If so bring the loco and I'll bring my 511 and we can hopefully sort it.

Bill

[Crosland]

Address 160 will always be a long or extended address, with no scope for confusion.

 

Address 64 could be either and you need to select the correct one, long or short. I would hope Lenz tell you which address they used. How to select long v. short should be in the ZTC manual.

 

Andrew

[railwayrod]

Thank you everyone for your help.

 

Bill - I will be at Whimple tomorrow so yes please.

 

Rod

[HSB]

Just to clarify things, the address for the V100 is 100 and not only does Rod's V100 not respond to his ZTC but mine doesn't either! Both were bought new from different dealers.

[railwayrod]

Hello Dutch_Master, Andrew and Bill.

 

Thank you for your suggestions which are all avenues to sorting out the problem. I am taking the loco to the Exeter G0G meeting tonight where hopefully I can try it with different controllers. Bill has kindly offered to have a look and all being well two other members will have their DCC units with them for trials.

 

Will let you know how I get on.

 

Rod

[Simond]

Gents

 

If you haven't sorted it, my suggestion is to place the loco on a programming track, and read the address. This will confirm that the decoder is fitted and functional. You can then program the address to the cab side number or whatever you choose, and all should be well.

 

My experience of ZTC was not positive - lovely to look at, but "uncompliant" so I can't help there, but I guess if you do the read-back & program from one of them, it should then recognise the address and work properly.

 

HTH

Simon

[HSB]

Neither Rod's or Bill's ZTC controllers would read the address although it did run very briefly at Whimple after Bill tried programming in a different address until I pressed the horn button which wouldn't then turn off! It will run on DC with the lights changing when reversed but, of course, no sound. We have another friend living near to Rod who has a Lenz controller who Rod has been trying to contact so we can try it on that.

[Simond]

Hi Howard.

 

That it ran, however briefly, suggests that the decoder is properly installed. This is good news!

 

I think using a Lenz control system will enable you resolve the issue. I'm much more comfortable with Lenz kit ( tho' I'm not a great fan of their decoders ).

 

If you have access to a Lenz system, simply try it with the expected loco number.

 

I guess it will work using the address you expect, but if not, place the loco on the program track, assuming an LH100, press <F> <8>. It should flash "prog". Press "<Enter> - it should say "dir", press <Enter> again, & it will say "dir", press <Enter> again and it will say "ADR", and a final press of <Enter> and your loco will go "bz, bz, bz, bzzzzz, bz" (or something similar), and eventually the display will tell you the loco address. At this point you can press <Cl>and then enter a new address, (I'd do this, use the cab side number) and <Enter> and/or <Esc> 3 times and stick with what you have.

 

Once you have a loco address, you need to add it to the controller - if it's in English, it will show "Exxxx" - repeatedly press <Esc> to choose a number in the stack that's not needed, press <Cl> and type in the number it has, or your new number, and press <Enter>.

 

It should now work.

 

HTH & good luck!

Simon

[railwayrod]

Hello Simon.

 

Your advice seems to be very comprehensive and as soon as I can get hold of my  friend Peter I will give it a try. I am considering disposing of my ZTC and buying a Lenz system but until I get this problem sorted I do not wish to spend my railway fund on another controller until I am certain that it will work.

 

Will let you know what happens after Peter has had a look.

 

Many thanks

Rod

[Allegheny1600]

Hi Rod,

Back when I was involved with the exquisite Lenz 0 gauge range, I had started off with a Guagemaster Prodigy (1) and I had the same problem.

Lack of full compatibility with the NMRA standards!

Unfortunately, I found that the controllers that are not compatible don't advertise that fact but at least the ones that are compatible, do!

If you look for a new manufacturer, make sure that is compatible, NOT "compliant"!

To get me going back then, I bought a very reasonably priced Roco Multi-Maus from a starter set (this is quite interchangable with the Lenz gear) - problem solved.

I can't help with more upto date stuff as I've gone all H0 but hope this helps,

John E.

[Simond]

John,

 

I like both your comments about compliance ILO compatibility, and the shuffling madness.

 

Rod,

 

I have had Lenz control kit since I started in DCC back in 2001 or 2002. I have installed it on my own layout, and installed similar kit on a very much larger, multi-controller indoor/outdoor layout. I upgraded my kit from the V3.? to V3.6 a couple of years back when I bought the USB interface, and found that the Lenz software did not function with non Lenz decoders, which was a bit frustrating, but I now use the JMRI software for the interface which is pretty much trouble free.

 

I have an LH100, LH90 and a Roco Multimaus as controllers, although I can use my ipad and iphone using Touchcab Free. I prefer the LH 100 or the interface for decoder programming, and the controllers with a knob for driving, although the touchscreen solution works. As I bought my kit years back, my central LZ100 is separate from my boosters.

 

The V3.6 upgrade was done by A&H who were helpful, courteous & prompt, and as far as I can tell, reasonably priced.

 

Usual disclaimers. I would have no hesitation in recommending the Lenz control kit, and A&H. Lenz kit is compliant. I have considered other kit, the ECoS for example but can't see any reason to change.

 

Hope this helps your decision process!

Best

Simon

[HSB]

I took my new NCE controller round to Rod's this afternoon and the V100 runs just fine on that.

 

Rod bought an MBW V200 at Telford which he couldn't get to run on the ZTC mainly because there was no literature with it so we didn't know the number and it wouldn't respond to requests to find out from the ZTC. I did, however, manage to elicit this info with the NCE and we were then able to drive it with the ZTC although we can only access some of the functions. I have just downloaded a list of the functions for the V200 which go up to F21.

[Allegheny1600]

How do you guys find the MBW stuff, please?

The closed van looks great and 21 functions on the V200 is impressive. I saw the V200 at Cologne a few years back and it looked fine to me but someone I knew was critical of it.

Their proposed new steam locos sound very good too and a great price!

Cheers John

[HSB]

The V200 is the only MBW loco we have had any experience with but the general standard appears to be similar to that of the Lenz stuff. I have heard, though, that the prices quoted for their forthcoming offerings have crept up quite a bit recently! A&H are considering whether to continue stocking them and Modellbahnshop-Lippe seem to be running down their stocks!

[Phil S]

Lenz recommend Expressnet uses 1-99 for short adresses, and 100+ as long addresses - matching 'human readable 2 digits / 4 digits.

However ZTC implemented the 'nmra-recommended' divide of 1-127 as short addresses,and 128+ as long addresses.

Therefore ANY LOCO addresses using this range and swapped between Lenz (including Roco and others) and a ZTC system will 'appear  not to operate' because it is 'not selectable'.because a 'Short 100-127' is NOT the 'same address' as a 'Long/Extended address 100-127.

 

Another manufacturer resolves the overlap area by using leading zeroes, or not ... adding the leading zeroes making it a long address format, giving the user full control.

 

For me, it is/was the BR 'Heritage' DMU TOPS classes which I use as codes which fell in this area .... my solution was to go fully Roco ... for other beneficial reasons too 8-)

 

You would also experience an offset of 4 in stationary decoder addressing if moving a stationary decoder between the systems, as some started from CV1=0, and others with CV1=1 for the mapping to the displayed User-Numbering .... this has to remembered when using 'look up tables' to programme stationary decoders, but is NOT a problem when usng the 'LEARN button on a new system, as the decoder simply learns whatever nmra number is actually being sent by (that) master unit.

 

In 00,, I first went for the ZTC as I was converting from Zero-1; but it was soon apparent that it was better NOT to use the 'dual mode' decoders as they did not work on all other systems due to timing differences, and were more expensive than changing decoders .... I was lucky in that my Zero-1 layout was wired separately for track and accessories (to eliminate problems in Zero-1), and therefore I could continue with dcc locos and Zero-1 Points/Signals until I rebuilt the layout, making the old Micromimic redundant, and replacing it with an On-Screen track display.

Other differences between the ZTC and Roco was in the behaviour of the STOP key: If used as the Master, only the ZTC could clear an all-stop; not the other handsets ...which meant walking back to the central console position, and directional ligfht behaviour at spped 0.  By changing to Roco as Master, I had identical control in all locations.

 

In G Scale, as LGB MTS users converting to other controllers discover, the 'forward direction' is also different (as it is in LGB analogue), and the default was 14 speed steps unless a Massoth handset is added to an LGB MTS, in which case it becomes 28.   I don't think 0 scale users ever suffered this effect.

[HSB]

I forgot to mention that when we took it to Whimple a few weeks ago the address of the V100 was changed by dymstocklr to 3.

[dymstocklr]

Hi Howard

I don't think dymstocklr helped you very much, but he has found out why the horn stayed on! With the new ZTC 611 it's possible to set the functions either to be 'latched' (ie on all the time) or 'momentary'. He hadn't realised that - what a silly Billy!

Bill 

[HSB]

Hi Bill,

Surely if it was latched pressing it again should have unlatched it? If I understand Phil S's post correctly changing from a short address to a long address might have solved the problem.