LMS 10000 semi scratch build in O gauge.

[kes]

Having completed the write-up of my N gauge layout Mickleover for Radbourne, I thought I would tell you how I created an O gauge model of the pioneer LMS diesel 10000. The real thing, which emerged in Dec 1947 was the first successful mainline diesel-electric loco in the UK. My grandfather Arthur Haynes (Big Mac) drove the thing, and his brother, Reg Haynes (Mech Mac) was one of the loco inspectors at Derby involved with the road testing. I only found this out 7 years ago at my mothers funeral, when all 6 of us male cousins were reunited.

 

I have always wanted to build a model of this machine, but had been put off by the lack of suitable components (i.e. Bogie side frames) to make it. The only kit I am aware of is by Just Like The Real Thing, and by the time you have added wheels and motors to it, you would need to take out a mortgage to build one. By chance I spotted on a well known auction site an etch for the two body sides, and the aluminium letters/numbers. Quite who had made this I don't know, but it gave me a start, and saved a huge amount of work. There was obviously quite a lot missing, such as ends, windows, roof, floor etc, but it gave me the basic shape. I photocopied a drawing up to 7mm scale so I could make a start. I am a womble, and collect all sorts of useful things that everyday folk leave behind. So the floor was made out of a section of thin ply from the back of an old wardrobe, and the solebars are two rocket sticks found on the beach at Whitby, after bonfire night. Nice close-grained straight wood. These were glued together with white PVA glue, clamped and left to set.

The battery boxes were made from plasticard and micro strip, and the 4 vacuum cylinders from some perspex rod I had found at the tip.

 

The body etches were cut out and bent to shape. Some brass angle was soldered inside the lower body sides so the floor could be attached. A 100 Watt iron makes short work of this!

Edited December 30, 2022 by kes
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[kes]

The bare brass body.

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by kes
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[Londontram]

I've always been a fan of the LMS twins so will look forward to this build. Steve

[freightmaster]

There is another kit for this loco, PRMRP do a kit..... the guys there are very helpful and if your still in need they may well be able to sort out any bogie parts you might need.

 

http://www.prmrp.com/diesel-kits.html

 

 

I've no affiliation with them just a satisfied customer

Edited September 1, 2015 by freightmaster

[kes]

You can see how much of the body was missing at the front. Looking at the drawings, I worked out that i could make the vertical section of the nose from a curved piece of brass, and the compound curved domed top from a sanded section of 1" square  timber. The front was rolled and soldered in, then the wooden dome was araldited on.

 

The windscreen frames were cut out of scrap brass to match the drawing, then soldered to be body sides and araldited to the wooden noses. The missing sections of roof were also cut out off scrap sheet, rolled around suitable diameter rods, and soldered in. The body was now getting much more stiff.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by kes
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[mike hughes]

You can see how much of the body was missing at the front. Looking at the drawings, I worked out that i could make the vertical section of the nose from a curved piece of brass, and the compound curved domed top from a sanded section of 1" square  timber. The front was rolled and soldered in, then the wooden dome was araldited on.DSCF0179.JPG

 

The windscreen frames were cut out of scrap brass to match the drawing, then soldered to be body sides and araldited to the wooden noses. The missing sections of roof were also cut out off scrap sheet, rolled around suitable diameter rods, and soldered in. The body was now getting much more stiff.

I wonder then if it's a PRMRP kit or an old MTK kit?

Michael

[kes]

Hi Mike, there was nothing marked on the etches as to manufacturer, but they are quite thick brass! They also included an etched section of nickel silver for the body side trips and the LMS and 10000 numbers. In this photo you can see the numbers at the back of the photo on my layout. The rest I had to invent.

 

 

 

Now I had a body, I needed some bogies. These were made out of 25mm aluminium channel section, marked and drilled for 1/4" axle bushes in the pillar drill. The driven bogie uses delrin chain and gears to connect the outer axles, and a £2.99 motor from ebay driving a 13:1 gear set.

 

I used wheels from Pear Tree Engineering, which are insulated on one side only, so by unscrewing the axles and putting them in from different sides on each bogie, you have pickup via the frame without any seperate wire pickups. This is called The American System of pickup and works well for diesels.

Edited December 30, 2022 by kes
missing

[mike hughes]

Hi Mike, there was nothing marked on the etches as to manufacturer, but they are quite thick brass! They also included an etched section of nickel silver for the body side trips and the LMS and 10000 numbers. In this photo you can see the numbers at the back of the photo on my layout. The rest I had to invent.

 

DSCF0180.JPG

 

Now I had a body, I needed some bogies. These were made out of 25mm aluminium channel section, marked and drilled for 1/4" axle bushes in the pillar drill. The driven bogie uses delrin chain and gears to connect the outer axles, and a £2.99 motor from ebay driving a 13:1 gear set.

 

DSCF0012.JPG

 

DSCF0011.JPG

 

I used wheels from Pear Tree Engineering, which are insulated on one side only, so by unscrewing the axles and putting them in from different sides on each bogie, you have pickup via the frame without any seperate wire pickups. This is called The American System of pickup and works well for diesels.

If it is MTK (give away is it'll be hand drawn, the roof fan as well wont be etched all the way through.) Body is probably 18th brass. As ive taken over the range of ex MTK parts, i can confirm that there isnt any castings for it in the moulds ive seen.

What youve done so far looks good.

Michael

ps good idea about the Aluminimum channel for the motor bogies

[kes]

So now I had powered and slave bogies, a wooden floor, and the brass shell of the body. The next problem was the bogie side frames. These are unique to only 2 loco types - the Derby Twins, and the EM2 Woodhead electrics. I decided since I had the plans, and the excellent LMS society/NRM book, that I would build the side frames exactly as the works did - from flat sheet. I cut out 2mm plasticard with a fret saw for the main side members, and added 10 and 20 thou sheet as the top and bottom flanges. The cross members were made the same way and glued in. The coil springs were made by winding solder around a suitable wooden stick, attached with super glue, then cut to length and glued in. The leaf springs were cut from 10thou sheet and laminated up to the required thickness. The round axle box covers were made by using a hole punch on 10thou sheet. I did not at this stage realise now many seperate bits were going to be required in each bogie, but I think the final number was just under 500! They are not as detailed as those from JLTRT, but once weathered they will do me fine.

 

The round sand box tops are made from the plastic tube from a suitable old Biro, topped with more 10 thou hole punchings. The whole lot was then primed white from an aerosol, then sprayed with a silver aerosol. Once this has hardened I will put the bogies together for the last time.

Edited December 30, 2022 by kes
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[kes]

I have now reassembled the bogies and floor and given it a test around the garden. It is all looking good, so work can continue on the body.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by kes
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[asa]

Nice work Kes,well done indeed.

[bgman]

You say "I am a Womble", well, you underrated yourself kes !

Certainly an excellent find with the brass sides to start you off and if the final model turns out like the rest of it so far you should be proud of yourself

Nice work.

[kes]

You say "I am a Womble", well, you underrated yourself kes !

Certainly an excellent find with the brass sides to start you off and if the final model turns out like the rest of it so far you should be proud of yourself

Nice work.

Thanks for the kind comments. I was taught by my late father to look at redundant bits and pieces and think "what can I use that for".

[mike hughes]

Keep up the good work

 

Michael

[Simond]

Cracking big of work!

 

Might I suggest you "package protect" yourself by adapting the chassis now so you can easily add a motor to the other bogie - so much easier now than when the body's built, and if you never need it, it'll have been a waste of ten minutes...

 

HTH

Simon

[Dava]

I think your bogies are super pieces of work & it is coming together well. You're right that these bogie designs were shared by 10000-1 and the EM2 (there is a set at Butterley) but if you look at the D600 series of NBL Warships the bogie design is very similar (can't say identical, I don't have the dimensions) despite being A1A hydraulics. Interesting!

One suspects there were so few 6 wheel!power bogie designs the BTC told them to use it.

 

http://www.railblue.com/pages/In%20Depth/hydraulic_pioneers.htm

 

Dava

[kes]

I think your bogies are super pieces of work & it is coming together well. You're right that these bogie designs were shared by 10000-1 and the EM2 (there is a set at Butterley) but if you look at the D600 series of NBL Warships the bogie design is very similar (can't say identical, I don't have the dimensions) despite being A1A hydraulics. Interesting!

One suspects there were so few 6 wheel!power bogie designs the BTC told them to use it.

 

http://www.railblue.com/pages/In%20Depth/hydraulic_pioneers.htm

 

Dava

I would not be suprised Dava. I think the NBL centre wheel sets were smaller diameter, as the LMS 10000 was going to be, before EE stated that they required the power bogies to be Co-Co. So perhaps that is where the NBL design came from.

[kes]

This photo was taken when the body  was basically complete but before I dismantled the bogies for painting. The side grilles and etched side strips have been soldered on with the 75 watt iron and lots of flux.

 

The next stage was to make up some buffers from round headed nails soldered to oval brass heads, running in brass tube soldered to the front panels. These are sprung behind using springy N/S wire which also runs through the back of the coupling hooks.  I then decided to give the whole thing a coat of grey primer so I could see what needed filling..

 

This is the stage I am up to now, with the chassis and bogies painted, but some more detail to go on the body.

 The main roof fan grille is giving me a headache as the one that came with the etch is solid, and I cannot find a suitable etched one of the correct linear-barred type. I might have to drill and file out the slots in the solid one! That will keep me quiet for a few days.

 

Edited December 30, 2022 by kes
missing

[Pandora]

I think your bogies are super pieces of work & it is coming together well. You're right that these bogie designs were shared by 10000-1 and the EM2 (there is a set at Butterley) but if you look at the D600 series of NBL Warships the bogie design is very similar (can't say identical, I don't have the dimensions) despite being A1A hydraulics. Interesting!

One suspects there were so few 6 wheel!power bogie designs the BTC told them to use it.

 

http://www.railblue.com/pages/In%20Depth/hydraulic_pioneers.htm

 

Dava

The D600 bogies are similar in appearance but the axle to axle dimensions are  shorter than EM2/LMS twins.

Forgotten facts , the 3 electric traction motors were a tight fit and the EM2/LMS  bogie is therefore not symmetrical for wheel centres.  The D600 hydraulic bogie was only powered on two axles, one axle being a simply a  carrier

[kes]

Sorry about the lack of progress this week, I am still thinking about the roof fan, and also getting side tracked into building a folding 6'6" x 15" industrial shunting layout!

[Pete Harvey]

We want pictures in a separate thread for the layout please?

 

Pete

[kes]

We want pictures in a separate thread for the layout please?

 

Pete

Will do as soon as I can.

 

Kev.

[Pete Harvey]

Kev

 

if your 10000 build is a guide the layout will be well worth following.

 

Pete

[kes]

We want pictures in a separate thread for the layout please?

 

Pete

Hi Pete, thread started in 7mm+ modelling - "7mm in a motorhome". 

[kes]

Sorry about the lack of progress recently, I had to get the bare bones of a portable O gauge layout completed and out of the garage before it gets too damp. We need a warm dry patch then I can paint the base coats of black on the body.