Peco Bullhead rail & C&L chairs

[Tove]

Hi Group, 

 

A bit of an odd ball question for you all.

 

Can i use Peco Bull head rail with C&L finescale chairs. (inc.the ones for the points)

 

I ask because i`m thinking of pulling apart three peco point`s, plus flex track and re-building them to 31.5mm with C&L wooden sleepers and chairs.

 

I`d contact C&L direct but there not answering calls for the next couple of day`s.

 

Thanks for indulging me,

 

Brian.

[Simond]

Brian

 

I can indulge you so far - I have just tried a C&L chair on a piece of Peco rail and it does, as expected, fit. 

 

I'd question your motivation - I suspect you'd be better keeping your Peco points and using them in your fiddle yard, or selling them, and making your own points from scratch.  I don't think you'd have much fun converting Peco points, and I'm sure the rail is cheaper than the points.  There are several how-to's on RMWeb, including one in my PD thread below. 

 

Regarding plain track, I suggest you do not regauge it - simply re-space the sleepers to something more prototypical.  I will do this, except in the "prime position to photo my loco", despite the fact that Peco sleepers are fitted with 3-bolt chairs.  Ballast and weathering will do the rest.

 

HTH

Simon

[66C]

Hi Brian

 

If you want to build turnouts to match Peco track have you considered the Peco components?

 

Ordinary and slide chairs are available and even at list price are a considerable saving in cost compared to C&L.  Of course if you shop around they can be found more cheaply.

 

Just a thought.

 

Regards.

[Simond]

just looked at the prices - C&L 2 bolt chair, £24/500 = 4.8p each, Peco 3 bolt chair on Amazon, £4.45/100 = 4.45p each.

 

i suppose you get a free one for every 14 you use, but I'm happy to use the C&L ones - and they're 2-bolt.

 

hth

Simon

[Tove]

Thanks for the reply`s,Simon and Bill.

 

 

And thanks for checking out the C&L chair and Peco rail combo for me as well Simon.

 

Originally i was going to use peco track work and point`s on a small layout that i`m about to start.(essentially a big shunty diorama)  

But after seeing all the lovely track work built to 31.5mm on here,i decided that that`s the way to go for me.Even more so as i`ve switch from American O,were i was building my track work to Proto 48 Standard`s.

 

I know it sound`s like a bizarre idea,but my thought was to buy C&L 2 bolt chairs,strip the rail from the Peco points,(which are s/h anyway) throw away the vee make a new one, and re-lay the complete point(s)  using the original rail and also using some surplus balsa wood i have for the sleeper`s!.

 

Just in case you think i`ve totally lost the plot!!,here a couple of old picture`s of some P48 track i was building  with balsa wood ties (sleepers)

 

As a side, the little layout i have planed will have a traverser,so i can`t even use them in a fiddle yard.

And because it will be small,with slow speed shunting op`s,the drop into the Peco frog will be very noticeable indeed!.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

 

 

[Simond]

Well, the balsa ties look great, but I still think I'd leave the Peco alone...

 

Whatever you decide, do show us the pix!

 

Best

Simon

[66C]

just looked at the prices - C&L 2 bolt chair, £24/500 = 4.8p each, Peco 3 bolt chair on Amazon, £4.45/100 = 4.45p each.

 

i suppose you get a free one for every 14 you use, but I'm happy to use the C&L ones - and they're 2-bolt.

 

hth

Simon

 

My suggestion was on the basis of consistency with Peco plain track to maintain the appearance.

 

It's worth bearing in mind that the price quoted for the Peco chairs is list price.  They are available at £4.00 per pack of 100 - a saving of 17% compared to C&L.

 

Regards.

[3 link]

My suggestion was on the basis of consistency with Peco plain track to maintain the appearance.

 

It's worth bearing in mind that the price quoted for the Peco chairs is list price.  They are available at £4.00 per pack of 100 - a saving of 17% compared to C&L.

 

Regards.

Agree, but they are no good for us GWR chaps and I am certainly not going to trim the extra bolt heads off.

 

Martyn.

[hartleymartin]

With the wheel drop issue, you can cheat by putting some card into the flangeway so that the flanges ride on this instead of dropping into the gap. The trick is to get just enough to stop the wheels dropping but not so much that the tread rises off the head of the rail. I did this to a few 24" radius Atlas Code 148 points and it works a treat. There is still just the tiniest drop, but I can live with it. I have not tried it on Peco points thus far.

[Simond]

auto car body filler works too, but filling the flangeway is unrealistic, and potentially causes other issues, particularly if your stock has various different manufactuers' wheels.

 

if you're fixing RTR track, fair enough, but if you're going to make it yourself, why not simply make the flangeways narrower? 

 

It works, and it looks better, and it's free.

 

best

Simon

[Tove]

With the wheel drop issue, you can cheat by putting some card into the flangeway so that the flanges ride on this instead of dropping into the gap. The trick is to get just enough to stop the wheels dropping but not so much that the tread rises off the head of the rail. I did this to a few 24" radius Atlas Code 148 points and it works a treat. There is still just the tiniest drop, but I can live with it. I have not tried it on Peco points thus far.

Thanks Martin,

 

I did give that a thought to start with,but as Simon has pointed out there is a problem with slightly deeper flanges on some stock.

 

I have though been playing around with the 'Vee' in the meantime,ie; i have pushed it further into the frog area after some alteration.

It has eliminated the drop into the frog,and the stock does`nt 'pick' the nose of the Vee on the way through,but the angles are`nt quite right now as you look down the frog.This i don`t mind this as it`s only for a test layout.(big diorama)

I will though have to make new vee`s as the altered ones are too short now and don`t come to the end`s of the sleepers on the point!.

 

I`ll try and post a couple of pic`s later if i get one altered properly.

 

Brian.

[Tove]

OK,as promised i`ve taken a couple of pictures showing my new frog for a Peco point.( still have to finish it!)

 

 

You`ll notice that the new frog is pushed in a quite bit further than the original.

There also does`nt seem to be any problem`s with this other than that nose is at a slightly different angle,but the wheel`s don`t pick the nose of the frog and the visual difference is greatly improved.

 

Now for a bit of dodgy video!.

 

https://youtu.be/cL-2Etf4uus

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.

[Simond]

Brian

 

I'd agree it looks better, but...

 

something must be wrong, there can only be one place for the fine point to be, and that must be where the tangents to the closure rails cross. There should be a blunt nose, which is going to be behind the fine point, and it should be supported on a timber, but leaving that aside, by pushing the v forward, you must have passed the theoretical fine point, so the nose should pick up every flange, going either way.

 

that it does not, suggests that the back-to-front dimensions of your wheelsets are such that the check rails prevent it (which is why they're there, of course) but it is a testament to the slop built into 32mm gauge that you can get away with this!

 

If you can get away with it, and as you say, it looks better, it seems you can proceed along those lines.  But be careful if you try to narrow the check rail gaps, that might not work.

 

best

Simon

[Tove]

Thanks for the comment Simon,

 

I totally agree with everything you`ve said,'it should`nt work' but it does!!. Hurrah for slop........

 

I`m not too worried about prototypical fidelity at this point in time. I just wanted to could get rid of the wheel drop in the frog area,

as these are going to being used on a small layout,which is going  to ease me back in to British O gauge modelling.

I`ve a lot of catching up to do!.

 

Cheers,

 

Brian.