France announces security checks for international rail passengers

[DavidB-AU]

Equipment to enable passengers and their luggage to be scanned prior to boarding Thalys services in Paris and Lille is to be installed before December 20.

 

http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/passenger/single-view/view/france-announces-security-checks-for-international-rail-passengers.html

[Focalplane]

After the Thalys incident, as a Voyager card holder I was contacted by SNCF to take part in a poll.  The question was whether or not TGV passengers wanted security checks at all stations on the network.  I have not seen the results of this survey but so far Thalys would appear to be the only service that is being considered for security checks.  On Monday I will be taking the RENFE/SNCF train from Narbonne to Lyon.  Like Thalys, this service originates outside France, from Barcelone, using an AVE trainset.

[rue_d_etropal]

There are already security checks for Eurostar , and extending it to all stations with trains crossing international borders would make it a lot simpler. The security checks at St Pancras are not that hard word, but having to get off Eurostar, and walk to security then get back on train is hard work. It is a lot easier than going through airport security.

As to how you separate internal and international passengers travelling, is the difficult part.

[Focalplane]

Yes, I have read about the Avignon-London service with all passengers having to detrain at Lille.  Hardly high speed, though probably no different from a 30 minute minimum connection when changing trains at Lille.  I never thought I would say this, but driving and ferry (Portsmouth to Caen or Cherbourg) is becoming a lot more pleasant an experience, even to southern France.  I slept right through a passage in a gale on one of the new Brittany Ferries' night services.

[Pacific231G]

Yes, I have read about the Avignon-London service with all passengers having to detrain at Lille.  Hardly high speed, though probably no different from a 30 minute minimum connection when changing trains at Lille.  I never thought I would say this, but driving and ferry (Portsmouth to Caen or Cherbourg) is becoming a lot more pleasant an experience, even to southern France.  I slept right through a passage in a gale on one of the new Brittany Ferries' night services.

Curious that when crossing the iron curtain during the height of the cold war, when everything was searched in the presence of heavily armed border guards and East Germany felt like a large prison camp, you still weren't required to detrain and passport, visa and customs checks all took place onboard. That was true even in Berlin with the train surrounded by multiple layers of barbed wire. At other borders such as Italy-Yugoslavia those checks took place on the move between frontier stations. The only border station where I'd ever had to detrain (before Eurostar at Lille) was Brest-Livotsk between Poland and the Soviet Union and there the train had to go off for an hour or so to have its bogies changed.

[Edwin_m]

Step up security on a train and the people intent on doing these things will find an easier target... like a concert hall. 

[Tom J]

Close a door and they open two windows, as always.

[The Stationmaster]

Curious that when crossing the iron curtain during the height of the cold war, when everything was searched in the presence of heavily armed border guards and East Germany felt like a large prison camp, you still weren't required to detrain and passport, visa and customs checks all took place onboard. That was true even in Berlin with the train surrounded by multiple layers of barbed wire. At other borders such as Italy-Yugoslavia those checks took place on the move between frontier stations. The only border station where I'd ever had to detrain (before Eurostar at Lille) was Brest-Livotsk between Poland and the Soviet Union and there the train had to go off for an hour or so to have its bogies changed.

The 'problem' with Eurostar is the Channel Tunnel and the security requirements of the Channel Tunnel Act which mean luggage has to be scanned.  It could be done with portable scanners (which was the intention for Regional Eurostar in the UK of course) but the French seem to be not too keen on that idea although I suspect they have rather deeper motives than anything directly to do with Tunnel security and rather more linked to making it rather awkward for others to access the Tunnel with through passenger trains.

 

But they do have a point in one respect - on-train checks tend to be very expensive in terms of human resources compared with fixed location checks.  Cost was the only reason on-train passport checks ceased on Eurostar.

[Andy Hayter]

But a potential terrorist could board any train at any station, so why the targeting of international TGVs (or their ilk)?

 

FWIW, in 1960 I had to exit the train in Bale, go through customs and passport control and alighted a new train in Basel - which turned out to be the same set of coaches  and I was in the same seat as previously. 

 

De-training at the border by any other name.

[Focalplane]

Many years ago (around 1976) I boarded a Singapore Airlines flight from Jakarta to Singapore with a Toraja sword wrapped in newspaper strapped to the side of my brief case.  The sword has a blade 16 inches long.  When I arrived in Singapore's Paya Lebar Airport I walked through immigration and customs without a problem.  My naivety could only be matched by an incredibly hopeless security system.  More recently I have had numerous occasions at third world airports in Africa and South America where strangers would offer to take me around security for a small fee.  I sincerely hope no-one ever abused such an offer of "convenience".  European airlines in this situation always have a second security check at the foot of the airplane steps.  Which is why they, virtually alone, can fly to European destinations.

 

I just hope that these events don't translate into European high speed train travel.

[EddieB]

Yes, Basle used to be like that.  So too at Woodlands, Singapore - everyone had to detrain and pass through customs, with the much signposted threat that anyone found in possession of drugs could be facing the death penalty.  . Despite the stops in "no man's land", watchtowers and dogs, at least that wasn't generally on the agenda in the days of the Iron Curtain.

[rockershovel]

Why would anyone be surprised? The whole "passport free travel" concept has always been an ideological obsession. Surprise, surprise, borders bave grown up over the centuries for good and sufficient reason, one being that we have enemies who cannot be reasoned with.

[Focalplane]

I just completed a three train journey to Paris CDG airport via Narbonne and Lyon. Whatever happened to the direct services from Perpignan to Bruxelles? The Narbonne to Lyon service was by Renfe/Sncf Ave "reseau", the last journey was the usual double train set 700 series to Lille, 45xx to Bruxelles, originating from Marseilles. The lower deck 700s ride was incredible after the rattling Ave.

 

But, on topic, no security presence at all, life goes on. Airport security the same, so life is returning to normal, at least from this small sample. To be honest, I noticed a lot more police presence after the Charlie Hedbo travesty.

 

Next test is Cross Country from Birmingham Intl to Leamington. . . .