sharris Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 I haven't seen much on here about railways in Brazil, but if anyone is interested I can post some pictures from my trip - mostly US made stock (which I currently know absolutely nothing about!) on metre gauge. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted December 15, 2015 Share Posted December 15, 2015 Yes please! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted December 15, 2015 Author Share Posted December 15, 2015 Ok. Can't promise anything for today - Currently waiting at Lisbon airport for my connecting flight home and feeling somewhat jetlagged after the 11 hour flight from Brazil! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 So here goes with the first set of pictures. This set of pictures comes from the railway line from Bento Gonçalves south to Carlos Barbosa in Rio Grande do Sol (Google maps: https://www.google.com/maps/@-29.2505411,-51.5000126,11z to get your bearings). This is run as a tourist railway now - it is impossible on the train to escape from the entertainment provided along the route. The area is a 19th century Italian immigrant settlement, and the entertainment consists Italian songs and some ham acting during the journey. On the plus side, you are given wine at the beginning of the journey to Bento Gonçalves and at Garibaldi. The train is pulled by one of two American 2-8-2 locomotives on metre gauge track. As I mentioned above, I know very little about railways on the far side of the Atlantic, so this will be more a 'look at the nice train' than anything intellectual! So, on with the pictures - we start at Bento Gonçalves where there is a station, shed and a couple of carriages on a siding. When I got there, the train (engineless) was in the platform. To give an idea of the architecture of the railway, here is the station building at Bento Gonçalves. As we were visiting in December, the Christmas decorations were out (the train turned out to be decorated too!) As I mentioned, there were carriages already in the station - here are a couple of views of the end one - broadside, and 3/4 view to show the corridor connection: In addition to the carriages at the station, there were a couple out on a siding - a baggage car and buffet car (the baggage car appears to have lost its bogies - or should that be 'trucks' on that side of the Atlantic?): There was also a covered van there: Onto the shed: This is the locomotive that will be on the train later - an American made 2-8-2 from 1941. There was a second locomotive in the shed - called 'Jung' apparently - here are a couple of snaps - mostly it was hidden away, so I could only really see the front end and the tender: You can see that the locomotives are in a kind of 'tourist livery' rather than a genuine Rio Grande do Sul, and appears to have Rede Ferroviária Federal, Sociedade Anônima - (RFFSA) (the nationalised Brazilian railway company) insignia as well as the tourist livery on the tender. Coming back from the shed, a couple of pictures of the trackwork: I thought the first looked so overgrown that it couldn't possibly be in use - but I think it is part of a reversing triangle for the locomotives. As far as the second picture goes, it seems I'm not the only one to lay slightly wonky track! So, a little later in the day and the train is ready with the locomotive (plus assorted tourists): Rather than burning solid wood, these days the train burns sawdust in bags left over from the Tramontina cutlery factory Maria Fumaça is what the Brazilians call a steam engine! On with the journey: A typical Brazilian crossing sign. The obligatory 'down the side of the train on a curve' shot (there will be more of these in the next picture set!). Well, doesn't that just take the biscuit! Named after the Italian general Guiseppe Garibaldi (from whom the biscuits also take their name) who helped in Rio Grande do Sul with the Ragamuffin War - an attempt by Rio Grande do Sul for independence from the Brazilian Empire - the attempt ultimately failed. This was the half-way point for the journey, with more entertainment and wine on the platform - I eschewed the entertainment (but not the wine!) to go off taking more pictures of the engine, to investigate the details on the other side: Getting a bit arty with a driving wheel close up! Maker's plate It was pretty much night time by the time we got to Carlos Barbosa, only a couple of pictures there of some more mundane subjects: Small service car: Point lever: In the next picture installment, there will be some Diesel on another tourist line from Curitiba on the Serra Verde express through the Atlantic rain forest - but for freight enthusiasts, we passed quite a few freight and engineering trains so something different to look forward too. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted December 17, 2015 Author Share Posted December 17, 2015 (edited) I just discovered, regarding the second locomotive in the shed, there is a good picture of this one on Flickr outdoors. https://www.flickr.com/photos/aragao/16695883060 Edited December 17, 2015 by sharris 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted December 17, 2015 Share Posted December 17, 2015 Well the copy of the worksplates helps to identify 156-5M as an Alco product (69948/1941), formerly of the Estrado de Ferro Dona Teresa Cristina (EFDTC) and withdrawn in 1984. The other 2-8-2 is Jung 11943 of 1954, of the Cia Siderurgica Nacional/Lavador de Capivari (where there was a power station served by the EFDTC). According to the "Inventario" (the bible for preserved locos in Brazil), there is also an 0-6-0 plinthed near Bento Goncalves station - another Alco (60582 of 1919), originally from Armour & Co (US meat dealers). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 (edited) Today's Brazilian railway excursion is the Sierra Verde Express travelling from Curitiba to Morretes through the Atlantic Rainforest. Google maps reference: https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@-25.4588223,-49.2218362,11z Again, this is really a tourist line, but unlike the line from Bento Gonçalves, there is still an industrial aspect to this line, and traction is provided by diesel rather than steam. The line starts from the station in central Curitiba - to start with a few shots of the train prior to leaving. The train was hauled by a GE EMD GT22CUM-1 locomotive number 4617 in ALL livery (I understand this particular locomotive is not dedicated to this train, and others are also used) The coaching stock was a mixed bag including various plain steel sheeted sided types and stainless steel. Now, this is my type of train! On with the journey... Parallel to the running line: Rather overgrown, and I wondered whether it was disused, but a few minutes later, along came our first goods train. Double headed - the lead engine was another GE EMD GT22CUM-1 number 4625: Following are a selection of hopper wagons from that train to illustrate the liveries in use and their state of cleanliness (or not!) should anyone be thinking of modelling and weathering some. This was one of the disused stations along the line that has been put to a new use showing the typical style of architecture used. Sadly, many of the stations have not survived and many are now burned out and overgrown. Also seen along the journey, a GE C30-7 (number 7663) running light. Not exactly the fastest of lines! The second freight train of the day - mostly this consisted of containers and high sided vans: Again, showing the various liveries currently in use, the end details of the temperature controlled containers and the varieties of van sides, with and without graffiti. Again, this was double headed, the trailing locomotive being a GT22CUM-1 Number 4613(?). If you're modelling the leading locomotive, don't bother painting on a livery - just cover it with dirt and weathering! The last train to pass us, headed by 4611 (another GT22CUM-1) was an engineering train hauling bogie bolsters laiden with rails. Finally in this set, at Marumbi station a couple more locomotives - GT22CUM-1s number 4644 in red ALL livery and number 4616 in blue and grey RUMO ALL livery. Notice the grime on the front of 4644 and the grime and pile of leaves picked up by 4616. That's the end of this set. The next trip will be to a shopping mall in Curitiba where there is a small railway museum. Edited December 20, 2015 by sharris 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted December 20, 2015 Author Share Posted December 20, 2015 As a follow up, while I was doing a bit of investigation on the locomotives, I came across this site for the railway company: http://pt.rumoall.com/conteudo_eni.asp?idioma=1&conta=46&tipo=27585 which may be of use to anyone modelling Brazilian freight as it appears to have many downloadable drawings of wagons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted December 20, 2015 Share Posted December 20, 2015 Hi (Simon/Steve/Stuart?) What a fascinating system, thank you for sharing. Those GE C30-7's look big on standard gauge, on metre gauge, they look enormous! I don't think I would want to model Brazillian but it would be worth it for anyone looking for a fresh project. Cheers, John. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted December 21, 2015 Author Share Posted December 21, 2015 Hi (Simon/Steve/Stuart?) What a fascinating system, thank you for sharing. Those GE C30-7's look big on standard gauge, on metre gauge, they look enormous! I don't think I would want to model Brazillian but it would be worth it for anyone looking for a fresh project. Cheers, John. That hammerhead nickname is well deserved! My current project is an LNWR line in Bedfordshire, but everywhere I go is tempting as an extra project! Must resist (he says having just spent the last 25 minutes googling for model GT22s!) Cheers, Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 The final Brazilian railway excursion is to a shopping mall in Curitiba. The Estação Shopping Center (google maps https://www.google.co.uk/maps/@-25.4381767,-49.2664645,16z) was, in 1883 the Curitiba railway station for the line to Paranagua (the current railway station for the Sierra Verde express is quite close by to the East). To reflect its heritage, the mall contains a small railway museum and has a locomotive and carriage in the main shopping area. The locomotive is a Baldwin 4-4-0 from 1903. Someone more adventurous than me can model the motion gear here! Cab details Tender details The Carriage on display The small museum contained another locomotive - this time a small industrial British made engine for use in mining. The museum also recreated a ticket office: Finally, a few shots of the exterior - this section of the mall is part of the original station: Well, that about wraps it up for Brazil (until I can manage another visit anyway!), so it's back to the LNWR in Bedfordshire for me now! Images in all these posts are reduced for the web, mostly from 24 MPixel originals and are © Simon J Harris. If you want higher resolution versions, please PM me. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Great stuff, Simon. As I understand it, the locomotive in the Shopping Mall is a 760mm gauge Baldwin originally from the EF Oeste de Minas (BLW 32878/1908), originally numbered 22, but renumbered 19 around 1920. The 600mm gauge 2-4-0T in the museum was built by Bagnall and supplied through Henry Rogers and Sons (as shipping agents). It is listed as WGB 739/1888 (so it may be carrying the plate from a sister locomotive). I don't know how long they've been in their present locations - but I certainly missed both of them while passing through Curitiba in 1992. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 Hi Eddie, I tried to look for some information on the Baldwin - it appears that it was previously at the Bariqui amusement park in Curitiba, and was moved to the yard at Curitiba Station some time around 2003, and has since gone through some restoration and ended up at the mall museum (not sure when, apparently there was a 2-6-0 Baldwin there in 2001). http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/brazil19.htm http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/brazil37.htm (that page says 'compiled by Eddie Edmunson' - that's not you is it?) Best wishes, Simon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horsetan Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 (edited) .....Rather than burning solid wood, these days the train burns sawdust in bags left over from the Tramontina cutlery factory That's highly interesting, and I wonder if the sawdust is compressed into briquettes beforehand, or merely supplied as bales like this: Wonder what the fuel consumption rate is, too. The use of the waste product as fuel also reminds me of the sugar cane railways of the Philippines, which ran their 0-6-0s on bagasse and needed at least two firemen to keep feeding the firebox. Edited December 23, 2015 by Horsetan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 http://www.internationalsteam.co.uk/trains/brazil37.htm (that page says 'compiled by Eddie Edmunson' - that's not you is it?) Not me, but I think I may have contributed elsewhere on that site. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allegheny1600 Posted December 23, 2015 Share Posted December 23, 2015 Many years ago, I was hunting for something made by Frateschi; http://www.frateschi.com.br/site/index_eng.php?page=locomotivas_eng(Note one loco is in ALL livery!) only I couldn't remember the name, don't do as I did and search for "Brazilian models", you may be surprised at just what comes up (oh my!). Cheers, John. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sharris Posted December 23, 2015 Author Share Posted December 23, 2015 As far as I can tell, they're H0 - wonder how hard it would be to convert them to H0m. I saw one of their train sets in the Sierra Verde gift shop, but wasn't that tempted. I see their 'where to buy' doesn't have any UK options (pretty short on any European options!). 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 Many years ago, I was hunting for something made by Frateschi; http://www.frateschi...locomotivas_eng(Note one loco is in ALL livery!) Hmm, I never knew there was a model of the "Little Joe" in production. (About £90 from the Swiss outlet). 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trisonic Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 There are four gauges operating in Brazil - from 5’ 3” downwards. All new lines including High Speed links are Standard gauge. The first loco pictured is what is commonly called an ALCO by North American modelers. Insect infestation and very fast “weed” growth is a problem all over South America. In Uruguay a lot of the nearly defunct system uses steel ties. Buenos Aires (Argentina) once had a rail network bigger than the Southern Region, I believe. South American railways are an interesting subject. Best, Pete. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HSB Posted December 24, 2015 Share Posted December 24, 2015 As far as I can tell, they're H0 - wonder how hard it would be to convert them to H0m. I saw one of their train sets in the Sierra Verde gift shop, but wasn't that tempted. I see their 'where to buy' doesn't have any UK options (pretty short on any European options!). From articles and revues I read when they first became available it appears they have been scaled up to match the size of American H0 standard gauge models. I seem to remember a revue of one of the locos in Continental Modeller gave a scale of around 4.3mm/ft. There was an article in New Zealand Model Railway Journal a few years ago on chopping them down closer to proper H0 scale and mounting them on 12mm gauge underframes (A couple of the diesels are similar to NZR classes) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_Burman Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 Hmm, I never knew there was a model of the "Little Joe" in production. (About £90 from the Swiss outlet). The loco is not a "Joe" - rather it's a model of the GE 2-C+C-2 motors delivered to the Paulista Railway in the 1940's. Cheers NB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_Burman Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 From articles and revues I read when they first became available it appears they have been scaled up to match the size of American H0 standard gauge models. I seem to remember a revue of one of the locos in Continental Modeller gave a scale of around 4.3mm/ft. There was an article in New Zealand Model Railway Journal a few years ago on chopping them down closer to proper H0 scale and mounting them on 12mm gauge underframes (A couple of the diesels are similar to NZR classes) Some Frateschi locos - mainly those representing broad gauge prototypes, like the streamlined GE motor, the FA-1 and the 2-8-0 - are to 1:87 scale. Those locos which are of meter-gauge prototypes are made to approximately 1:78 scale. Cheers NB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EddieB Posted April 23, 2018 Share Posted April 23, 2018 (edited) The loco is not a "Joe" - rather it's a model of the GE 2-C+C-2 motors delivered to the Paulista Railway in the 1940's. Cheers NB With the original link gone the way of the 404, I can no longer be sure what was the model featured. Was I mistaken? Well, I ought to know my Joes... from my Paulista 2CC2s... (Even if I couldn't gain access to platforms at Campinas and had to resort to photographing the "Joe" with a telephoto lens from a nearby slip road.) Edited April 23, 2018 by EddieB 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jjb1970 Posted April 24, 2018 RMweb Premium Share Posted April 24, 2018 I love the Little Joe's, marvellous looking machines, I've always wanted one of the Overland or PSC brass models but factory finished ones are still very expensive. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nick_Burman Posted April 26, 2018 Share Posted April 26, 2018 With the original link gone the way of the 404, I can no longer be sure what was the model featured. Was I mistaken? (Even if I couldn't gain access to platforms at Campinas and had to resort to photographing the "Joe" with a telephoto lens from a nearby slip road.) Eddie, More than one Brazilian modeller is on its knees praying for Frateschi to crank out a Joe...in the meantime they obliged with a V-8 and a "Wanderleia" (semistreamlined C-C motor), both in proper HO scale. That slip access was one of the best locations to take roster shots around the whole of the station, short of obtaining admittance to the shed itself... Cheers NB 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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