Folkestone-Dover sea wall wash-out

[David Todd]

Red rig moves on the the next cylinder,to position and drill down.

 

P1400756 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400758 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400761 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

Time for me to leave,for the Western Heights and the Drop Redoubt, am now up the hill and crossing the ridge.

 

P1400762 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

[David Todd]

Thank you for this series of photos they show in great detail the whole process so clearly like the renactors and the cannon ,also note that the sea wall holes are getting larger.I wonder if the wall will last the summer ,what will happen if it does collapse?

 

Thank for your post,lms.

 

Am sure they have a plan if it does, having read the whole Assessment Plan,produced for this project,at the end of April 2016.

 

I did take photos yesterday of the stresses in the wall,but did not upload them here this morning.

[David Todd]

Dover Marine/Western Docks Station, from the Drop Redoubt. 

It is now Cruise Terminal No.1, but retains all it's internal features,except the tracks were back filled to platform level,cars on drive in and out.

I has recently been refurbished internally, plus a new roof, which took nearly 2 years.

 

P1400780 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400779 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400785 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400786 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400789 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400790 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

 

 

 

 Ad. Pier,     Dover Shark, Fishing Competition  

 

P1400793 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

[jamie92208]

Dover Marine/Western Docks Station, from the Drop Redoubt. 

It is now Cruise Terminal No.1, but retains all it's internal features,except the tracks were back filled to platform level,cars on drive in and out.

I has recently been refurbished internally, plus a new roof, which took nearly 2 years.

 

P1400780 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400779 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400785 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400786 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400789 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400790 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

 

 

 

 Ad. Pier,     Dover Shark, Fishing Competition  

 

P1400793 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

Thanks for those David.  I presume that the big concrete ramp to the east of the various wharves is the old hovercraft pad, Where exactly was the train ferry berth please.

 

Jamie

[David Todd]

P1400777 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400775 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400767 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400766 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400778 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400782 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400783 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400797 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400798 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400799 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400800 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400802 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400803 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400804 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400814 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400815 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

[David Todd]

Thanks for those David.  I presume that the big concrete ramp to the east of the various wharves is the old hovercraft pad, Where exactly was the train ferry berth please.

 

Jamie

 

Yes.

 

This shews the area,  pre hoverpads, the train Ferry Berth,was eventually moved up the Ad, Pier.

 

1961 westdocks001 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

[David Todd]

Photos,courtesy of  Lyddrail.

 

 

 

[The Stationmaster]

Good Grief!

Perhaps Stationmaster can enlighten us about how the cost of this restoration is being amortised.

I thought the days of cross subsidisation across the network had long gone.

dh

 

All depends entirely on project life and where it is being financed from and the 'project life' which is put against the works.  I do wonder how many of these jobs are at least part charged to insurance although the rate at which the big jobs are appearing is likely to have an upward effect on insurance costs.

 

Interesting that there has been a major move to weekend working with a very clear aim of getting piles in quickly behind the bit of wall which is most in danger of falling down - do they know something we can't yet see about the rate of collapse?  And is the work on the area near the tunnel mouth also connected with worries about the wall?  What happens with the reinforcing steel which has been dumped at that end might give us a clue - is the concrete pad cgoing to be an assembly area for reinforcing for the 'viaduct section?  Lots of questions coming out of all this weekend's activity I think.

[Stuartthegrant]

f

How well I remember my days working as a Messenger on Dover Marine station, one of my tasks was visiting all the local Signal Boxes and the Ferry Shunters Foreman with "Traffic Notices".

I also took "Telegrams" on and off the ferry's for the switchboard. My first job from leaving school.

Now all has gone, the boxes, yards, Lyons siding and the track leading to the Marine station.Not forgetting The Town yard, Clarence sidings and the Train Ferry yard and Dock.

At least the Priory and Main line remains but Dover has lossed an awful lot of Railway.

 

Thanks for all the comprehensive pictures David.

[Simon Lee]

Looking at todays photos an incident came to mind that occurred in the area roughly between the blue cranes. I was late turn AFA, got a call from Archcliffe signalman that a Dollands Moor - Mountsorrel Redlands SDT had stopped on the down main and there had been a juice tripping.

 

Turned out that one of the 4 wheel wagons had derailed 1 wheel, one of those strange phenomenon's and weird to look at is one wheel off. Shut the main line from about 1700 until just before 2300 by the time we had got Chart Leacon BRUFF on site, set up, foreman says 15 mins we'll be done. Started lifting ready to traverse, then we noticed that the discharge belt was lifting about 10 wagons. After that IIRC brute force and ignorance was the order of the day !!

 

Turned out one wagon hadn't fully discharged and a slight dip under one rail did the rest.

 

Happy days

[runs as required]

.... I do wonder how many of these jobs are at least part charged to insurance although the rate at which the big jobs are appearing is likely to have an upward effect on insurance costs.

...Lots of questions coming out of all this weekend's activity I think.

Thank you for that response.

The remark about insurance nudged me on again from my mid 1950s student day basics.

Not only did we get lectured to about cross subsidy in large organisations (e.g. Chamberlain's management of Birmingham and the classic example of the rich paying for basic sanitation for the poor because that way all citizens escape cholera epidemics), but we learnt how large organisations like railways (starting with the LNW and GWR in the C19) covered their own insurance - presumably up to the onset of privatisation.

Something like the Shap/Tebay p.w. trolley accident must set up claim and counter-claims ricocheting between m'learned friends..

 

I remember my solicitor son required to analyse the privatisation of Sellafield when working for the largest of City Law firms some years ago. They concluded no commercial organisation would shoulder the potential Chernobyl scale insurance implications.

dh

[jamie92208]

Thank you for that response.

The remark about insurance nudged me on again from my mid 1950s student day basics.

Not only did we get lectured to about cross subsidy in large organisations (e.g. Chamberlain's management of Birmingham and the classic example of the rich paying for basic sanitation for the poor because that way all citizens escape cholera epidemics), but we learnt how large organisations like railways (starting with the LNW and GWR in the C19) covered their own insurance - presumably up to the onset of privatisation.

Something like the Shap/Tebay p.w. trolley accident must set up claim and counter-claims ricocheting between m'learned friends..

 

I remember my solicitor son required to analyse the privatisation of Sellafield when working for the largest of City Law firms some years ago. They concluded no commercial organisation would shoulder the potential Chernobyl scale insurance implications.

dh

 

Yes BR was self insured along with quite a few other large organisations.  This used to come up when drivers had to produce their documents at Police Stations.  IIRC Unilever was another one.   However the details of privatisation were largely put together by a lawyer (Tom Windsor) so guess who makes a killing every time, or am I being a tad cynical.

 

Jamie

[David Todd]

Looking at todays photos an incident came to mind that occurred in the area roughly between the blue cranes. I was late turn AFA, got a call from Archcliffe signalman that a Dollands Moor - Mountsorrel Redlands SDT had stopped on the down main and there had been a juice tripping.

 

Turned out that one of the 4 wheel wagons had derailed 1 wheel, one of those strange phenomenon's and weird to look at is one wheel off. Shut the main line from about 1700 until just before 2300 by the time we had got Chart Leacon BRUFF on site, set up, foreman says 15 mins we'll be done. Started lifting ready to traverse, then we noticed that the discharge belt was lifting about 10 wagons. After that IIRC brute force and ignorance was the order of the day !!

 

Turned out one wagon hadn't fully discharged and a slight dip under one rail did the rest.

 

Happy days

I have seen an 08/09, off the rails,on the headshunt on someone Flickr site.

[The Stationmaster]

Yes BR was self insured along with quite a few other large organisations.  This used to come up when drivers had to produce their documents at Police Stations.  IIRC Unilever was another one.   However the details of privatisation were largely put together by a lawyer (Tom Windsor) so guess who makes a killing every time, or am I being a tad cynical.

 

Jamie

 

BR changed in later years and only carried the first £1 million themselves - after that it went to underwriters (hence you got peculiarities like the Class 50 which ran up a platform at Paddington being rebuilt because the insurance paid for it, if it had been on BR's account it would have been scrapped).  BR road vehicles had a certificate of indemnity which was supposed to be clearly displayed in the windscreen - it was the same size as the Road Tax disc and the details off that had to be quoted in the event of an accident etc or given over as the insurance detail; your BR domestic driving licence was proof that you were insured to drive the vehicle (assuming it covered the correct group of course).

 

Interestingly the privatisation dispute resolution process stuff was very purposely written to ensure maximum exclusion of the legal trade - we used to take great delight in throwing such persons out of access dispute meetings.  However nowadays it seems the access dispute process is actually contracted out to legal firms (which explains some of the utter baloney in some of the rulings).

[David Todd]

Thanks for those David.  I presume that the big concrete ramp to the east of the various wharves is the old hovercraft pad, Where exactly was the train ferry berth please.

 

Jamie

Then.

 

 

Now.

 

[jamie92208]

Then.

 

image.jpeg

 

Now.

 

image.jpeg

 

Thanks  very much for those David,   With the Big White building (Is that the Lord Warden) and the grey roofed shed near it I can locate it all.  That all makes sense now.

 

Jamie

[David Todd]

Thank you for this series of photos they show in great detail the whole process so clearly like the renactors and the cannon ,also note that the sea wall holes are getting larger.I wonder if the wall will last the summer ,what will happen if it does collapse?

 

I took these last Saturday,but have just uploaded them, for some reason,I did not zoom in, but, if you view the on Flickr, you will be able to magnify them.

 

The wall,is gradually splitting, but doubt,it will totally collapse.

 

 

P1400526 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400525 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

[jamie92208]

Yes that wall looks very unstable.  Presumably that's why they are hurrying to get the seaward side piles done in that area so that they have something stable to put the raft on fairly soon.  I know that when there were all the press releases about how unstable things were at the beginning there didn't appear to be much wrong but that wall looks as if it could have a serious failure fairly soon.

 

Jamie

[David Todd]

Yes that wall looks very unstable.  Presumably that's why they are hurrying to get the seaward side piles done in that area so that they have something stable to put the raft on fairly soon.  I know that when there were all the press releases about how unstable things were at the beginning there didn't appear to be much wrong but that wall looks as if it could have a serious failure fairly soon.

 

Jamie

 

I was yesterday,thinking of downward pressure,causing outward pressure against the seawall,

if both rig's start working the seawall, 

 

P1400741 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400727 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

[phil-b259]

Thanks  very much for those David,   With the Big White building (Is that the Lord Warden) and the grey roofed shed near it I can locate it all.  That all makes sense now.

 

Jamie

[David Todd]

Occasionally, at low tide,walking the beach, I used to climb the wall up off the beach,to take photos behind the fence line.

As my head appeared over the top,I was always faced with this.

It is (an original ?) piece of brick built drainage ducting,I think it was removed year's ago and placed here.

I think it should be kept as a museum piece.

 

An original drainage duct. by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

 

 

Photos taken on 22/05/16.

P1400649 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400650 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

P1400314 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

 

 

P1380717 by David Todd 2012, on Flickr

Edited May 23, 2016 by David Todd

[Tim Dubya]

Do you think the large concrete pad by the tunnel mouths could be for a large diesel generator, akin to those used at large outdoor events, it just looks about the right size?

[The Stationmaster]

Then.

 

image.jpeg

 

Now.

 

image.jpeg

 

I think I will therefore have 'done' both the linkspans - the old one on 'The Night Ferry' in 1974 and the new one by walking down it in 1992 (pic below is from the deck of the 'Nord Pas De Calais')  during loading at Dover.

 

For a spot of comparative amusement the two following views (one from the ship's deck and the other from lineside) show how SNCF set about their unloading and loading task at Dunkerque - slight difference in amount of horsepower applied

 

Strangely that trip on the 'Nord Pas De Calais' was the last time I crossed the Channel on a ferry and it also had the advantage of serving some of the best food I've ever had on a short sea ferry, clearly trying to please the lorry drivers had beneficial effects on the catering.  BTW the trip was for duty purposes in order to study train ferry operational methods as Dover had just come within my orbit in that year.

 

 

 

 

Edited May 23, 2016 by The Stationmaster

[David Todd]

Do you think the large concrete pad by the tunnel mouths could be for a large diesel generator, akin to those used at large outdoor events, it just looks about the right size?

 

It's getting bigger, today !

 

More later. 

[unravelled]

I can't decide whether bracing the inner safety fence to the railing on the sea wall is a bad idea, or is intended to act as a tell tale for movement of the wall.

 

Dave