Newbie - First layout for family in 00

[oneandahalf]

Hello all!

 

So, at home with the kids, I decided to dig out the Hornby City Industrial set (+A+B+C expansion packs) that my 10 year old had got for his birthday a few months ago and had barely played with.

 

I set it up and have spent the last 5 days with my 4 year old, glued to to it. I'm not sure which of us is more excited. The early days were basic, cardboard tunnels etc but we were quickly bored by one train going round and around 2 ovals so popped into Junction 20 Models a couple of days ago and bought what we needed for the "Beer" layout from the Peco setrack book and another budget engine. Things are now more fun, he loves both watching the trains simply go round and around and also shunting carriages back and forth. He is pretty good at handling points etc.

 

So, I now have visions of grandeur.

 

We have chosen a permanent location (as the dining table will be reclaimed once term time starts!) and I have come up with some thoughts of what we could do. I had initially thought of doing a roundy-round layout so he could just sometimes let it go off but I am not convinced at how much more interesting we could make it in the middle section, given the space restrictions. The space is long and fairly narrow but I think a simple end to end would bore him so I have tried to lengthen the possible runs. 

 

I am no railway buff (trains follow tracks, is about the extent of my knowledge) but I am learning fast. I wanted to keep it a rural set, he is excited by the thought of farms and animals so I have tried to combine a Branch Line with a complete ripoff of the Ashburton Terminal and also incorporated a small area that could be used as a more industrial or possibly dockside shunting area.

 

Any and all comments are welcome.......including "rip it up and start again!"

 

Many thanks.

 

Moiz

 

[DCB]

I think you need a continuous run if it is for small people, and there is sort of nowhere for trains to go, I suggest reversing the crossover so that trains can return to the platform as a minimum

[oneandahalf]

Thank you David, I'll give that a go. It was always a nagging worry in the back of my mind but I somehow just didn't like the look of it with the two loops. I guess there has to be a balance between usage and scene.

[oneandahalf]

Hello all again.

 

So, after thinking about Davids suggestion we had a brainwave and decided on another location for the set up. The new location is 8ft x 8ft with access on 3 sides.

 

As suggested by David, a continuous circuit would be best but my question is this, do people think I would be better off with an 8 x 8 set up with an operating access in the centre or should I have a 8 x 6&1/2 set up with access on all 4 sides. I had thought that if I had access on 4 sides I would have a long fiddle yard, 6-8" wide behind a backscene board, on the wall side. However, it also seems sensible that an 8 x 8 with a well lends itself to a continuous loop setup.

 

I have looked at many of the set ups on here, and elsewhere, and it is easy to get caught up i some of the expert stuff being created and wanting to replicate it myself. I have brought myself down a peg or two and know I need to keep it simple and be prepared for the fact that this will not be the one and only layout we do, we are bound to figure out what we like and what we don't and start to adapt things in the future. 

 

Many thanks again, in advance, for your help.

[leopardml2341]

Operating access in centre would be my suggestion with younguns in mind.

Puts them at the centre of there their own world then, and adults do it as well - see this layout based on IoM railway, with a wonderful play on words for its name:

https://www.google.co.uk/search?tbm=isch&tbs=simg:CAQSigEahwELEKjU2AQaAAwLELCMpwgaYgpgCAMSKKEYnQ3hDIANtBeeDaAYmg3BF_14MgDaBNv81jiiENo0o2T-CNts_11DUaMEavsaswflA-1T56gYSWz73zVxFU2wDkP3mPnYF0AygIPqLDO0VwmqoAjZGVDJV0_1yADDAsQjq7-CBoKCggIARIEoy40mgw&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwib9_3U0I7KAhUIaxQKHWuUAnoQwg4IGCgA&biw=960&bih=600#imgrc=YLlwZLDZQpDjlM%3A

There's also a layout called Patrick Brompton, which is a roundy roundy but still realistic model.

 

edit - only reading this today did I notice the damned autocorrect of 'there' when clearly, it should be their...... embarrassed of Willington

Edited January 4, 2016 by leopardml2341

[Clock O' The North]

G'day to you all

Here's my 2 cents worth oneandahalf, A continuous run layout with a terminus above all of it. There is a bit of shunting to be done on it. There is also 2 stations on the layout. All the points bar one are within reach of children. However the is no loco depot so that could be added somewhere

[oneandahalf]

Thanks for your responses guys.

 

Andy, I couldn't find either of those layouts online anywhere, do you have a link to them or know somewhere I might be able to find them?

 

Clock, thanks for the layout. I would like to fit a goods or fiddle yard in there somewhere which I'm sure could be done, but more importantly I'd like to keep things on one level for now. This will be my first time doing any sort of modelling so I think I need to keep things as simple as possible! 

[leopardml2341]

Sorry no - I tried loads of searches before even posting my reply, I do know that Patrick Brompton featured in Model Rail Magazine some years ago.

 

As much as anything the sentiment was just to prove that roundy roundy's can be realistic and not just for trainsets.

 

Rgds,

 

Edit:

 

Feb/March 1999; for some reason I can't paste a link - will try again later.

Edited January 4, 2016 by leopardml2341

[oneandahalf]

Thanks Andy.

 

To my shame, and in my excitement, it seems I have over estimated the amount of space I have. I'm now down to 6ft x 7ft with the wall along one of the 7ft sides. However, in principle, I think I will be looking to do something along similar lines to what has already been suggested.

[oneandahalf]

Ok, so I've been having a play around.

 

Bear in mind, I am currently only looking at this from a layout point of view. Scenery will most definitely be shoehorned in; it has to be fun to play with for the 4 year old first and foremost.

 

Be ultra critical with it. I'm a complete novice so constructive criticism will only help the learning process. My aim with the layout was to have some sort of goods yard type area and a station area. 

 

Many thanks again for any contributions.

 

 

 

[Clock O' The North]

G'Day All

Oneandahlaf, that is a better track plan than what I came up with. Just one thing with it though. I'd be trying to place a passing loop at the lower station

 

Thanks, Clock

[Anglian]

Way back in the early 1980s there was a layout called Ashton and Midport, featured in the Railway Modeller around 1982 I think. Although 4mm fine scale (ignore that aspect – it's totally irrelevant to your needs and this dicussion) the critical thing is the design fitted into sort of area you have and allowed for both continuous running and end to end operation from the station to a fiddle yard. There was a small goods yard to shunt, an engine shed and a tunnel – important for a four year old I expect. Enough to keep you and your son entertained, it would me. It wasn't complex but I always liked it as a design – it might be worth trying get hold of a copy of the article as it may inspire you. Other small layouts I liked that again could inspire are Bredon and also Cheviotdale – both are old layouts but both were continuous runs and quite simple yet interesting. All these designs would suit short rural branch line trains. I think it's a good idea to have a look at some of the best designs from the past as you can learn from them and avoid potentially expensive or time consuming mistakes.

 

Equally I'm sure it's worth having a look through some of the Peco designs in their plan books – I'm not familiar with them but I suspect there are some ideas that will get you thinking. I also think it's worth considering the idea as a whole rather than just a track plan as that will add to the play value. Does it needs a wharf for 'Percy' or a quarry for 'Thomas' if you decide to go down that path. A road bridge or a level crossing adds another angle etc etc…

Edited January 4, 2016 by Anglian

[F-UnitMad]

Last plan is a lot better as you've got rid of the return loop, which could/would be an electrical nightmare for you.

To get a passing loop at the lower station (bottom of the plan) I'd move the two existing loops closer together, replacing the short siding in between them with an "island" platform (one platform that serves both tracks).

From my own experience, I'd say you're right to try and get a balance between running & shunting, as by 5 my lad liked both. For shunting he liked driving the loco while I did the points and couplings - which is following the prototype roles (Driver & Guard) really, so no need to think of your layout as "just" a train set!!

[oneandahalf]

Thanks again everyone for your comments.

 

Anglian, I had a look at some of your suggested layouts and realised that Bredon was in the Peco Setrack book I have and was one I had considered setting up previously. I have taken inspiration from it (i.e. stolen) the station part of the plan and incorporated it. Thoughts?

 

One question though.....how does that station work operationally? 

 

Anglian, I also appreciate your thoughts on thinking of the idea as a whole....it's the bit I'm struggling with the most. I suppose that is just lack of experience, with both model railways and railways in general. It's only taken a few days from taking out the box after xmas purely to set up something for the boys to play with to being completely overwhelmed by what is being created by people. I had all sorts of ideas and have tried to almost take a step back and to take it bit at a time. So start with the play part, see what he (and I) enjoy doing, what sort of ideas we come up with and then consider a possible new design which would be more thematically designed.

[DCB]

There is plenty of room for a double track layout

[oneandahalf]

Thanks David, I'll see if I can get something like that to work. 

 

Operationally, how do you usually treat a double track? Does it simply give you the opportunity to run two trains in opposite directions? Or is it something more complicated than that?

[Anglian]

I think getting something moving, as you have done is the first step – already the project has value. In terms of looking at the whole picture I'd just look at what others have done and also apply a bit of logic. If there's a station there is likely to be a road to it that may need to cross the line, is it by a bridge etc… that starts you thinking. I'd look at pictures of the real steam railway that should inspire or if the lads have Thomas books look at those. As you have set track I think I'd be tempted to see where it wants to develop. If a siding could be longer, repositioned etc then you can alter it. It's how I started out in the hobby. Bit by bit.

[Zomboid]

Thanks David, I'll see if I can get something like that to work.

 

Operationally, how do you usually treat a double track? Does it simply give you the opportunity to run two trains in opposite directions? Or is it something more complicated than that?

In reality they're for trains to run opposite directions.

You can use them as you want on a model though. Kids will want races for one thing, and I remember setting up a staged derailment on one track and smashing a train into it on the other (crashes are essential on a layout for children, accept this and buy cheap, robust rolling stock to allow that...)

[Chimer]

Opposite directions, keeping left - i.e. on a double roundy-roundy, trains on the outside track go clockwise (unless they're racing!!)

 

Cheers

 

Chris

[oneandahalf]

Thanks guys for all your comments. 

 

I'm going to see if I can create David's suggested plan in the software but in the meantime, I think I need to just get a few more bits and start putting it together. The baseboard (6mm ply on 2x2s) should be ready by tomorrow!

[oneandahalf]

So......baseboard made, erected and then thoroughly rejected by the powers that be for being too big! Grrrrr.

 

So, I'm back to square one, up in the loft conversion. Here is my original design, incorporating David's suggestions, though I'm pretty sure the enlarged end sections are going to get criticised!! Any comments? 

[rogerzilla]

Have you thought about hanging it on the wall?  If you have trees etc it will have to hang down (scenery outwards) rather than fold up but it will end up at a nice working level for adults (4 feet plus carpet clearance, obviously) although kids will need to stand on a box.  You'll need four or five strong steel hinges, a batten fixed to the wall with frame fixings, four stout hooks and two chains to support it when it's horizontal (forget hinged legs, they are too much work and too bulky).  On my 6 x 4 baseboard, which is pretty heavy chipboard with framing underneath, the tension in the chains is about 23lb which is well within the capabilities of decent hooks (the Versa Hooks I have are rated for 40lb).  8 x 4 would still be OK assuming similar construction.  Bonus is that it makes things much queter because the whole shebang is fixed to a masonry wall rather than echoing through the floor.

[oneandahalf]

Hello again everyone!

 

So unfortunately the home management department decided that all the layouts we were going for were too big, everything got dismantled and put away. The set came out again at Xmas, we set up and ran Bredon and then it was all put away again. Come the summer hols and the little one was begging to play again. So, we have been allowed a temporary home, i.e. it can stay up until the spare room needs to be used, at which point we might have to put it away for a while, though hopefully no more than a week, so it's a semi permanent position.

 

I got myself a sheet of 3/4mm MDF, 8x4ft and was going to do some sort of roundy roundy but the board is just too big and heavy to lug around and have therefore decided to go for an 8ft x 18-24" design.

 

Now the little one is 6 but he is happy enough without an oval. He likes the idea of shunting trains about and has his heart set on getting some sort of diesel shunter (an 08??) but he also loves his long passenger carriage. Correct me if I am wrong, but I have explained to him that we just don't have the space for a station capable of taking a long carriage and making the layout fun to play with so we have decided on some sort of goods yard, ie. mixed goods shed, coal and possibly some sort of small factory. It also means we can somehow incorporate some of his cars and vans into the scene.

 

OK, enough of my rambly chat, here are a couple of pictures of what we have laid out so far. It is a slight variation on one of the PECO layouts (a dock). My thought is it is a goods yard off an urban branch line (is that a thing??) so the top track is the single line in, the pilot loco would do the shunting to allow the main loco to leave again. We would do our thing and then the loco could come back to pick up again. What do you all think?

 

Thanks in advance!

 

 

 

 

[Chimer]

Hmmm....

 

First off, would the domestic authorities allow an extension board (say 2' x 2') sitting roughly on top of the sofa cushion?  That would give a lot more scope.

 

Either way, to help with storage, it might be a good idea to have 2 4' x 2' boards rather than one 8' x 2'.  Though that's easier to arrange if tracks cross the join at right angles which constrains the artistic effects a bit.

 

If this was a goods yard off an unseen branch (or main) line, normal practice would be for the train to stop on the branch and back up into the yard, so you'd see the brake van first.  It's then easy (boring!) to shunt a simple fan of sidings.  Kick-back sidings would be unusual because they're tricky to shunt - the engine has to get to the other end of the train.  A dedicated pilot engine would be most unlikely in this situation (but that doesn't matter a bit if that's what you want to do).

 

But I think, even without the extension, you've room for a passenger branch terminus with a goods yard here.  The passenger service could be a push-pull (tank engine with a single coach).  The platform you're using for the goods shed could handle that, and you could move the goods shed to another siding.  

 

There's room for a run-round loop, especially if you swop two points round so that (reading from the buffers) the point to the loco spur comes before the point to the long siding (the one on the right in the left-hand photo).  You would just need two more right hand points to form a crossover between the platform road and the long siding.  Goods trains would probably arrive in the siding on the left, the train engine would shunt using the kick-back sidings (you'll probably find you need a third siding though) - and you'll have great fun using the run-round to assemble the departing train with the brake van at the back!

 

Hope this gives you some ideas - all a bit off the top of my head at this stage I'm afraid.

 

Best of luck

 

Chris

[oneandahalf]

OK, back to the drawing board I think.....the above doesn't seem to work too well for shunting wagons about, I think because of the the lack of a runaround?

 

I'd like to break it all down again if possible, get some best advice from all you knowledgable people so here is a breakdown of requirements (of sorts):

 

General:

 

1. It has to be fairly portable so the max size, including a fiddle yard will be 8'x2'. This doesn't need to be broken down, it just means that it can sit in the guest room until such time as that room is needed at which point we will move it temporarily somewhere else, then bring it back.

2. Another reason for keeping it small is because this is my first time modelling a scene like this and a big oval has too much in it and the idea of modelling something so big terrifies me to paralysis!

3. I know nothing about trains! The set was a gift to one of my elder sons, he never really played with it but the 6 yo loved it so we have expanded it. I have no idea about how trains worked in real life, most of the language used on here baffles me and I have no particular preference to one of the big four. Having said that, I was born in the mid 70s and spent my schooldays walking through Victoria Stn so pre-privatisation British Rail, blue engines, the zigzag symbol thing all bring back memories. I also used to travel to the midlands by train from St Pancras so the Intercity 125 to Leicester makes my eyes a bit misty. I think if we were going to stick to an era I'd like it to be this.

 

For the 6 yo:

 

1. He has to be able to play trains. This doesn't mean it has to be a roundy roundy but he has to be able to do stuff. He is more than happy flicking points and shunting wagons about.

2. He seems to be more interested in diesel than steam engines

3. He likes the idea of passengers not just goods

 

For the 42 yo (me):

 

1. I'd like to be able to play trains with him! (and on my own ) The puzzle side of things interests me most, and I'd like to learn more about actual operations, how trains were supposed to go in and out, how signalling worked etc. 

2. I'd like to start doing some modelling, make an actual scene. However, the whole idea fills me with some dread, more because I have no idea WHAT I should be modelling rather then the actual model making process itself. So, with that said, I think something simple is best.

3. I think to save my pocket we will stick with DC and hand of god.

 

So, for the umpteenth time, here we go again! Thanks again for an advice.