RailRat Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Hello Members. I am completely new to the hobby having been given a whole lot of very old three rail. So inexperienced that I don't know whether it's DCC or not so please excuse me if I've posted in the wrong place. I have already set up half of my lay-out in the attic having available two areas of about 3.6m X 2.5m. The two lay-outs will be joined by a double via-duct, I know, ambitious. My first lay-out has three separate 3 rail tracks and all three work OK, my problem is I have about 12/13 sets of points to wire up and I don't have a clue how to do it. Would there be someone kind enough to draw me a diagram please showing how to do this correctly. Please also explain what components I need to do the job properly. I have only today discovered that the voltage need only be supplied momentarily otherwise, disaster. I have some of the little lever switches and I've taken one to pieces to see if I can work it out for myself. I've just proved to myself that I'm a bit of a thicko.......................Help please. Have a nice day everyone. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Three rail track? 00 or 0, and do you know the maker? And, do the points have electrical actuators built-in? K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCB Posted January 18, 2016 Share Posted January 18, 2016 Presumably you have Hornby Dublo 3 rail and want to know how to wire up the electrically operated points. It is a very long time since I last played with HD 3 rail but from memory the HD electrically operated points have three contacts, common, left and right. To actuate apply power momentarily to common and one other terminal, (If you apply it to left and right together but it will just buzz as both coils pull against each other at half power.) As I remember it the switches have three contacts, common, left and right. Connect the common to the common contact on the point, I think it is the centre but I am not 100% sure. These are passing contact switches and when moved from left to right they first apply power to the left and then the right and then have a dead section when thrown to full travel. moved from right to left they apply power first to the right to the left with a dead section at full travel. As you have found the motors burn out if the switches are not thrown all the way across to the dead sections. They are fine used carefully with the proper HD controller, but useless with capacitor discharge. The best way to wire them is as intended to a simple 16v AC transformer. If you want something more sophisticated then throw the passing contact switches away and use a small capacitor discharge unit and push buttons, either with a two way switch or one push button for each direction or studs and an electric pencil. They just are not robust enough to use with a diode matrix unless you balance the load with dead loads, which is a bit sophisticated. If this is not what you wanted to know my apologies but the question is a tad ambiguous. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2016 If it's Hornby Dublo some instruction sheets here. http://plan.vintagemodeltrains.biz/mrbinstructionleaflets.htm Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Chimer Posted January 18, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted January 18, 2016 Assuming HD, you might have two different types of switch, probably different colours. If so, one will be the passing contact switches DCB describes, OK for points' solenoid motors (and HD signals) using 15v AC. The other would be a simple on-off switch used for isolating sections of track by interrupting the 12v DC supply. Putting this one in a point circuit will burn the motor out straight away. The circuit is no different from any other solenoid motor ..... If the two wires shown as going to the right hand side of the switch are taken instead to studs on a mimic diagram on a control panel, and the one going to the left hand side to an electric pencil, touching the correct stud momentarily will fire the point (and won't do any damage if the point is already set the way you want it). Oh, and it certainly isn't DCC! Best of luck. Chris Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted January 18, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted January 18, 2016 Hornby Dublo made 3 types of lever switch. The one for points and semaphore signals was dark red, with two passing contacts. The black one is an on-off switch for use with isolating rails and the green one is a two position on switch for lighting colour light signals. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRat Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Three rail track? 00 or 0, and do you know the maker? And, do the points have electrical actuators built-in? K Hi Nearholmer, thank you for taking time to respond to my request. My equipment is all 00 gauge by Hornby. The points do have actuators I believe because I can make them operate by touching live wires to the connectors. If I keep the wires in place the points make a buzzing sound. I hope I've explained that reasonably well. Take care and have a nice day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRat Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Presumably you have Hornby Dublo 3 rail and want to know how to wire up the electrically operated points. It is a very long time since I last played with HD 3 rail but from memory the HD electrically operated points have three contacts, common, left and right. To actuate apply power momentarily to common and one other terminal, (If you apply it to left and right together but it will just buzz as both coils pull against each other at half power.) As I remember it the switches have three contacts, common, left and right. Connect the common to the common contact on the point, I think it is the centre but I am not 100% sure. These are passing contact switches and when moved from left to right they first apply power to the left and then the right and then have a dead section when thrown to full travel. moved from right to left they apply power first to the right to the left with a dead section at full travel. As you have found the motors burn out if the switches are not thrown all the way across to the dead sections. They are fine used carefully with the proper HD controller, but useless with capacitor discharge. The best way to wire them is as intended to a simple 16v AC transformer. If you want something more sophisticated then throw the passing contact switches away and use a small capacitor discharge unit and push buttons, either with a two way switch or one push button for each direction or studs and an electric pencil. They just are not robust enough to use with a diode matrix unless you balance the load with dead loads, which is a bit sophisticated. If this is not what you wanted to know my apologies but the question is a tad ambiguous. Hi David, thank you for your reply. The information you have offered is very helpful especially when combined with the help offered by others on the forum. Very many thanks, have a nice day. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRat Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Assuming HD, you might have two different types of switch, probably different colours. If so, one will be the passing contact switches DCB describes, OK for points' solenoid motors (and HD signals) using 15v AC. The other would be a simple on-off switch used for isolating sections of track by interrupting the 12v DC supply. Putting this one in a point circuit will burn the motor out straight away. The circuit is no different from any other solenoid motor ..... Point Switch.jpg If the two wires shown as going to the right hand side of the switch are taken instead to studs on a mimic diagram on a control panel, and the one going to the left hand side to an electric pencil, touching the correct stud momentarily will fire the point (and won't do any damage if the point is already set the way you want it). Oh, and it certainly isn't DCC! Best of luck. Chris Thanks Chimer, great information, thanks for the diagram and thanks for the nod re DCC. Best wishes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RailRat Posted January 19, 2016 Author Share Posted January 19, 2016 Hornby Dublo made 3 types of lever switch. The one for points and semaphore signals was dark red, with two passing contacts. The black one is an on-off switch for use with isolating rails and the green one is a two position on switch for lighting colour light signals. Well there you go! Learn something new etc etc. I have a few different coloured switches and did not realise that the colours indicated function. Back to the drawing (train) board. Thanks for your help, very grateful. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted January 19, 2016 Share Posted January 19, 2016 The others are well on the case, given that it is HD. I wondered if it might be Lionel 0, which requires different things, and varies by age/date. Keep up the feline fandango! (Or is it a Rat Rap?) K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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