Castle Aching

[St Enodoc]

Returning to the subject of railway carriages I think these ones that I just stole from Sir Douglas's thread are absolutely delightful.

Possibly less so if you had to travel in them.

[Edwardian]

The restoration of an Isle of Wight Railway 4 wheeler of 1864 was featured on Ch4 on Wednesday evening.  Its a rather spiffing little thing!

 

http://www.iwsteamrailway.co.uk/news/ch4-great-rail-restorations-oldbury-carriage-now-on-show-327.aspx

 

I think I'd pay to travel First Class on that!

 

Fantastic.  I love those Oldburys and I never knew one had been restored. A superb job, even down to the blue patterned glass toplights.  I'd only ever seen drawings and B&W photos, which fail adequately to give an impression of how magnificent these once looked.

 

if I were to model IOW, it would be Beyer Peacock 2-4-0Ts and these Oldburys, rather than all the hand-me-down Southern constituent stuff that came later.

 

In fact, the Isle of Eldernell freelance line was planned as an 1860s-built railway, and was to have these Oldburys, albeit paired with Sharp Stewart 'Seaham'-type 2-4-0Ts.  Recently I have been thinking of at least modelling such a train and running it on CA.

 

As to the interior of an 1850s-1860s Third Class coach, at the National  Railway Museum, there is a reproduction of a great contemporary oil painting. The title says it all ...

[NeilHB]

I think they really have done an absolutely splendid job on restoring the Oldbury 1st/2nd composite of 1864 - it is exquisite!

 

What makes it even more special is the construction of a brand new underframe, from wood - mention was made in the show that it is the only restored 4-wheel coach running on a new build wooden underframe. Not sure how accurate this is, but it’s a damn nice job that they’ve done.

 

I noted that the underframe was effectively a flat pack kit - do you think if we asked nicely they’d scale it down to 4mm and 7mm versions for us?!

 

It would be nice to see a few more rebuilt to form an original 1864 train, it makes such a nice change from the Southern colours.

 

Must dig out my drawings I made of them and sort out making some.

 

Edited for clarity re the new build wooden underframe

Edited June 15, 2018 by NeilHB

[Nearholmer]

You guys should really have a go at 16mm/ft, because coaches built from wood in that scale have a wonderfully real look and feel. There are some superb laser-cut kits around, but scratchbuilding of these straight-sided ‘earlies’ Isn’t difficult. Even as shelf ornaments they are magnificent.

[Compound2632]

I think they really have done an absolutely splendid job on restoring the Oldbury 1st/2nd composite of 1864 - it is exquisite!

 

What makes it even more special is the construction of a brand new underframe, from wood - mention was made in the show that it is the only restored 4-wheel coach running on a wooden underframe. Not sure how accurate this is, but it’s a damn nice job that they’ve done.

 

 

That had me looking at the Knotty coaches at Foxfield - but they have recycled/modified steel u/fs. However, at Foxfield they do have both the body and the frames and bogies from (two different but same diagram) Midland Railway 43' 7-compartment thirds of 1880s vintage...

[Edwardian]

I think they really have done an absolutely splendid job on restoring the Oldbury 1st/2nd composite of 1864 - it is exquisite!

 

What makes it even more special is the construction of a brand new underframe, from wood - mention was made in the show that it is the only restored 4-wheel coach running on a wooden underframe. Not sure how accurate this is, but it’s a damn nice job that they’ve done.

 

I noted that the underframe was effectively a flat pack kit - do you think if we asked nicely they’d scale it down to 4mm and 7mm versions for us?!

 

It would be nice to see a few more rebuilt to form an original 1864 train, it makes such a nice change from the Southern colours.

 

Must dig out my drawings I made of them and sort out making some.

 

Well, had I proceeded with the first layout I'd planned, Fenmarch on the Isle of Eldernell system, I'd be modelling these Oldburys. As it is, I'd still like a go and I had the happy thought that I could do a set for the WN too!

 

There are scale drawings in the Oakwood IWR book, including ends, u/f detail etc. IIRC they are something like 5mm: 1 foot, but could be scaled up or down.

 

Rather heretically, I was going to have a painted, rather than varnished wood livery, French Blue lower panels and cream upper.  The Isle of Eldernell locos were finished in French Blue, by which I mean the exact colour used years later by Triumph (I still have a can, somewhere).

 

EDIT: Surely the Forcett Coach has a wooden under frame, and doesn't that run at Beamish?

Edited June 15, 2018 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

There are several other old vehicles on wooden frames, so I think this must be one those very exact claims: on the IoW, on a Thursday, in the week of a full moon, that sort of thing.

 

A matter of opinion and eyesight, of course, but I really do think these early vehicles work better in larger scales. If I can’t flog anybody 16mm/ft, how about 0 scale, which as Northroader demonstrates, is ideal for indoor ‘earlies’.

 

And, they could be made of card in any scale. Don Boreham, who literally wrote the book on narrow gauge railway modelling, and was a very competent model engineer, used to build his coaches from card, in 16mm/ft, with some of the early ones being from whatever scrap card he could lay hands on in the late-1940s, and they both looked superb and lasted as well as anything else. I remember talking to him about them at an exhibition in the 1980s, and some are still in use now. Resume here http://dipnd.uk/compot/family/Don%20Boreham.htm

 

This is his famous book, which is about £3 secondhand, and it contains all anyone needs to know about modelling on the cheap, equally applicacable to any prototype. The cover picture on this edition isn’t actually his work, I think, I have a feeling that is is early Roy Link, but I might be wrong.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Nearholmer

[NeilHB]

Well, had I proceeded with the first layout I'd planned, Fenmarch on the Isle of Eldernell system, I'd be modelling these Oldburys. As it is, I'd still like a go and I had the happy thought that I could do a set for the WN too!

 

There are scale drawings in the Oakwood IWR book, including ends, u/f detail etc. IIRC they are something like 5mm: 1 foot, but could be scaled up or down.

 

Rather heretically, I was going to have a painted, rather than varnished wood livery, French Blue lower panels and cream upper. The Isle of Eldernell locos were finished in French Blue, by which I mean the exact colour used years later by Triumph (I still have a can, somewhere).

 

EDIT: Surely the Forcett Coach has a wooden under frame, and doesn't that run at Beamish?

I do like your proposal for the Eldernell system - particularly the use of Oldbury coaches and Sharp Stewart tanks.

 

I reckon a set would be ideal to represent the very early days of the West Norfolk.

 

Yes I have the Oakwood book - the drawings aren’t the best quality though to be honest, being rather feint in places. I have started preparing my own drawings to 7mm scale, and was thinking of making masters of the common parts to have them cast. I may still do this at some point, but just need to get a round tuit first!

 

Now that coach livery does sound rather delightful to me - you know I am already a fan of blue and cream coaching stock!

 

I believe that the Forcett coach is still on its original underframe. The IoWR Oldbury coach had no underframe, and thus had to have a new one built. I for one am glad that they went for a new build wooden underframe, as it doesn’t always look right when steel underframes (usually ex SR PMVs) are used for coaches which would previously have sat on wooden underframes. However I am well aware that needs must, and that without this approach the ranks of operational pre-grouping rolling stock would be considerably poorer for it.

 

I’ve edited my original post to clarify that I meant that this was potientially the only new build wooden carriage underframe.

[Edwardian]

I do like your proposal for the Eldernell system - particularly the use of Oldbury coaches and Sharp Stewart tanks.

 

I reckon a set would be ideal to represent the very early days of the West Norfolk.

 

 

Now that coach livery does sound rather delightful to me - you know I am already a fan of blue and cream coaching stock!

 

 

 

As I recall, the little Sharp Stewarts are contemporary with the Oldburys, so represent the original stock of the Isle of Eldernell Steam Traction Company (later the Isle of Eldernell & Mereport Railway), a line opened in the late 1860s.  See here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/109574-the-isle-of-eldernell-mereport-railway-1897/?p=2250258 for history.

 

"Eldernell Blue", would be as per sample below. 

 

Quarryscapes of this parish is, I believe, kindly producing the 3D print bodies of the Sharp Stewart 2-4-0Ts in their as-built condition. My plan was to have a brace of these. Isle of Eldernell locos are named, not numbered, so they are to be Hereward the Wake and Hero of Aliwal.

 

If I recall, livery was settled as French Blue, with lining black edged white and with an incurve.  Simpler than WNR.  Frames were to be, IIRC, chocolate or claret.  Name plates brass with crimson background.

 

Coaches, same blue, with lined waist and upper panels in a sort of pale cream/ivory. There were to be 2 4-coach Oldbury sets.

 

Of course, WNR would be similar, but with green lower bodies.

 

EDIT: I did toy with a means of mass production.  I could happily find room in my heart for four 4-coach Oldbury sets: two for the IOE, one (now, it seems) for the WNR, and one to provide the shuttle service on the short Medeshampstead and Gildenburgh Railway, which ran from Medeshampstead Abbey Station (a short horse 'bus ride from the GNR ECML station (Medehampstead Sheepgate) to Gildenburgh Pier, where one can embark on a paddle steamer to cross Eldernell Mere and connect with the Isle of Eldernell & Mereport Railway at Eldernell Mereside Station.

Edited June 15, 2018 by Edwardian

[Nearholmer]

Free to a good home: RM Dec 1971, which contains a good set of drawings for a complete early NLR train, including the BP 4-4-0T, coaches and the excellent birdcage brake. These were sold to all sorts of minor railways.

 

PM me.

[Edwardian]

Free to a good home: RM Dec 1971, which contains a good set of drawings for a complete early NLR train, including the BP 4-4-0T, coaches and the excellent birdcage brake. These were sold to all sorts of minor railways.

 

PM me.

 

I have PM'd you.

[Caley Jim]

Blue with lake frames and lined black and white is, of course, the only proper livery for passenger locos!

 

Jim

[Edwardian]

Blue with lake frames and lined black and white is, of course, the only proper livery for passenger locos!

 

Jim

 

True.  The difference is, I can decide on a shade of blue!

 

EDIT: I think the frames are supposed to be chocolate - I have some notes somewhere!

Edited June 15, 2018 by Edwardian

[St Enodoc]

As I recall, the little Sharp Stewarts are contemporary with the Oldburys, so represent the original stock of the Isle of Eldernell Steam Traction Company (later the Isle of Eldernell & Mereport Railway), a line opened in the late 1860s.  See here http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/109574-the-isle-of-eldernell-mereport-railway-1897/?p=2250258 for history.

 

"Eldernell Blue", would be as per sample below. 

 

Quarryscapes of this parish is, I believe, kindly producing the 3D print bodies of the Sharp Stewart 2-4-0Ts in their as-built condition. My plan was to have a brace of these. Isle of Eldernell locos are named, not numbered, so they are to be Hereward the Wake and Hero of Aliwal.

 

If I recall, livery was settled as French Blue, with lining black edged white and with an incurve.  Simpler than WNR.  Frames were to be, IIRC, chocolate or claret.  Name plates brass with crimson background.

 

Coaches, same blue, with lined waist and upper panels in a sort of pale cream/ivory. There were to be 2 4-coach Oldbury sets.

 

Of course, WNR would be similar, but with green lower bodies.

 

EDIT: I did toy with a means of mass production.  I could happily find room in my heart for four 4-coach Oldbury sets: two for the IOE, one (now, it seems) for the WNR, and one to provide the shuttle service on the short Medeshampstead and Gildenburgh Railway, which ran from Medeshampstead Abbey Station (a short horse 'bus ride from the GNR ECML station (Medehampstead Sheepgate) to Gildenburgh Pier, where one can embark on a paddle steamer to cross Eldernell Mere and connect with the Isle of Eldernell & Mereport Railway at Eldernell Mereside Station.

"Eldernell Blue" looks rather like BR Rail Blue on my screen...

 

The loco has the appearance of a grown-up Southwold Railway Sharpie.

[Edwardian]

"Eldernell Blue" looks rather like BR Rail Blue on my screen...

 

The loco has the appearance of a grown-up Southwold Railway Sharpie.

 

More like this ...

[runs as required]

Question about theexterior finish of wooden coach bodies:

The restored IOW Oldbury looks to be varnished wood (I wonder what type of varnish they used in a famous yachting centre like Cowes).

 

The GN and subsequent LNER were varnished teak - I assume that would be mutiple coats of a trusted old spec of clear varnish.

Assimilating NER liveried stock after the grouping, Darlington carriage painters must have been busy applying 'teak effect' wood graining. This would be something they, via Thompson (a Darlington man) would have shewn to Doncaster for his steel stock.

dh

 

[to my mind 'teak effect' is always a poor substitute for the genuine.

My secondary school installed a 1950s top of the range electronic multiple manual organ, all in a loight oak cabinet as a WW II school War Memorial on the platform of our Assembly Hall with Mackintosh style black stain finish wood panelling. They then disasterously decided on a seemingly endless contract for painters to wood grain all the Edwardian panelling to match the organ cabinet.]

[runs as required]

More like this ...

Back to JA phantasies are we....?

What my old work colleague would dismiss scornfully as "petticoat colours"

dh

[Northroader]

Blue with lake frames and lined black and white is, of course, the only proper livery for passenger locos!

Jim

Dead right, Jim.

Oh, and Kevin, thanks for that, I must pull my finger out and do a few more now. Pressure, what pressure?

Edited June 15, 2018 by Northroader

[Caley Jim]

True. The difference is, I can decide on a shade of blue!

 

EDIT: I think the frames are supposed to be chocolate - I have some notes somewhere!

'Chocolate' and 'lake' seem to have been interchangeable descriptions from what I can gather.

 

Jim

[Compound2632]

Blue with lake frames and lined black and white is, of course, the only proper livery for passenger locos!

 

Jim

 

And exactly what (or which) shade of blue would that be? There seemed to be some indecision or maybe watering down...

 

For myself, I don't think one can go far wrong with a good deep red.

[Edwardian]

'Chocolate' and 'lake' seem to have been interchangeable descriptions from what I can gather.

 

Jim

 

And exactly what (or which) shade of blue would that be? There seemed to be some indecision or maybe watering down...

 

For myself, I don't think one can go far wrong with a good deep red.

 

Or as Jim himself might put it 'these blues' and 'those blues' seem to have been interchangeable shades for "Caledonian Blue"! 

[Nearholmer]

Blind Lemon Jefferson’s ‘Scotch Engine Blues’ might be interesting, if only he’d thought of it.

[Caley Jim]

And exactly what (or which) shade of blue would that be? There seemed to be some indecision or maybe watering down...

It's more a case of what exactly do you call the shade of blue.  The CR appears to have had a fairly dark ultramarine blue to begin with, which was later changed to a royal blue.  Yes, the lighter blue was as a result of the painters mixing in white.  They were paid per locomotive and as the blue didn't cover well, and so needed several coats, mixing in the white required fewer coats.

 

For myself, I don't think one can go far wrong with a good deep red.

I have to confess that many CR locos looked rather handsome in red in later years, but then they were handsome locos anyway.      However, that period is far too modern for my taste!  

 

Jim

[Hroth]

A nice shade of green with Indian Red frames is preferable...

[sem34090]

So it is:

 

Or, if you dispute the true shade: