Assistance on redesigning a landscape / tell me what this shape is?!?

[Cardinal Richtea]

HI,

 

I have made several newbie posts already, so apologies if my newbie questions are annoying anyone, but I really do appreciate the kindness people have shown in sharing their knowledge and expereince.

 

First of all, I bought a used DCC track last year as per below:

 

 

To my eyes, it is a bit ugly, painted a nondescript grey, with no landscaping details, and the rather strange choice of 1960s concrete buildings to populate it. My own preference would be for a pastoral scene, with a 1940s/1950s vibe, and with at hill and tunnel too. As this is probably inappropriate, considering the density of the track that's laid out there, I am not going to go for a rural layout, but am uncertain of where to go next. My locos are all steam, and I have a lot of old school buildings that are typical of say 60 to 70 years ago, but cramming them all in the 'empty teardrop' area would not look right IMO. In the bottom left (or right corner), I am thinking of having a small coal depot, with some small staithes, coal sacks, an office, and a coal pile with a digger. On the outer stretches beyond the tracks I will most likely put grass and the odd residential cottage. I suppose a rail freight cargo depot might be appropriate, but I would like to use some of my many village high street type buildings if possible, and to have more variety than just have a whole layout dedicated to such a busy urban scene.

 

Here is what the layout looks like with the buildings stripped away, and just the very rough cut and glued plywood bases left (incidentally does anyone know of a good way of removing glued wood without causing substantial damage to the painted wood surface or the nearby track?) , which probably makes it easier to visualise alternatives.

 

 

I am sure someone will suggest looking at the railway layouts that are downloadable for free on the internet, and indeed I have done so, but the main problem is that I dont know what category / shape this kind of track plan falls under, and the ones I have looked at do not look like this. If there is a name to this layout, please share it with me so I can Google further.

 

Hope someone can help.

[Del]

It's certainly an unusual track layout. You basically have one oval with a few sidings, and then very long sidings inside and outside of it. For example, the passenger train in the platform in the top picture can't really go anywhere.

I wonder if you'd be better off taking all the track up, and trying to rearrange what you have into something more realistic. There is a well-known layout called 'Bredon' which would be much more suitable for what you'd prefer.

 

As an aside, if you'd like to dispose of those modernist buildings, I may be interested in taking them off your hands

[DCB]

Then track looks like a demonstration test track for DCC rather than a layout for an enthusiast.

 

In terms of Steam loco operation it is hard to see how how you could operate it.

 

In would suggest lifting the track and starting again.   The CJ Freezer  60 plans for small layouts has several plans which would fit your board assuming 6X4 and give potential for a pastoral scene as per your wish list while allowing some realistic operation.  My "Bed" layout was only 76" by 54" yet took 5 coach trains with high level terminus, double track main line and low level return loop and hidden sidings,  It has disappeared under my wifes' correspondence at present but I will have to dig it out and complete it.

 

As regards scenery scale height trees are a great way to disguise sharp curves, so many modellers use tiny trees when the real things are massive.

[Cardinal Richtea]

Thank-you both for replying. I don't mean to be argumentative, but I would prefer not to pull up all the track unless there is an easier alterantive. This setup was a commisioned build for the guy whom I bought it off and has the points / electrics already setup and the track glued / pinned down. As a newbie, I don't really understand the theoritical underpinning of DCC points as opposed to when I was a kid where you built your loop and attached the clip and it was ready to go; although I am prepared to accept it is less complicated than it first sounds. To be honest the Breedon track layout (at least in theis pic http://www.pls-layouts.co.uk/html/bredon_oo_files/mr_rooke.jpg ) does not look altogether dissimilar to the one I own. Can anyone suggest any modifications to the track to make it more useable to making an interesting scene; so I can just rip up and relocate only part of track and leave the points in place?

[DCB]

The difference between Breedon and your layout is Breedon has been designed with operation in mind and yours has not really been designed at all, The track has been laid and connected up and trains move but only the one on the oval one can move more than a few feet.

 

A couple of extra crossovers would improve it tremendously and a few more tweak would make it a decent childs layout , see pics, but really a new start a la CJ Freezer 60 plans type layout would be more satisfactory and time/ cost effective in the long run.

[imt]

I am really sorry about this, as everybody on here (including me!) loves to help where we can.  Sorry but David is right, I can see why the chap sold it.  Honestly its not very good from the operational point of view.  David's idea of 2 extra crossovers would improve your current layout - but I understand why you don't want changes.

[Cardinal Richtea]

I am really sorry about this, as everybody on here (including me!) loves to help where we can.  Sorry but David is right, I can see why the chap sold it.  Honestly its not very good from the operational point of view.  David's idea of 2 extra crossovers would improve your current layout - but I understand why you don't want changes.

No apology is necessary! I appreciate everyone who takes the time to reply, even if it is not good news. I also am not opposed to changes, it is just that with my very low level of experience I would prefer to modfiy the built track layout rather than rip it all up and start again. I saw a demonstration of electrics on a layout and it was too far above my head... I will study Dave's suggested changes.

 

[Cardinal Richtea]

The difference between Breedon and your layout is Breedon has been designed with operation in mind and yours has not really been designed at all, The track has been laid and connected up and trains move but only the one on the oval one can move more than a few feet.

 

A couple of extra crossovers would improve it tremendously and a few more tweak would make it a decent childs layout , see pics, but really a new start a la CJ Freezer 60 plans type layout would be more satisfactory and time/ cost effective in the long run.

Truly many thanks for taking the trouble to do this, as I'm sure it must have taken some time to complete.

 

I hope I can impose on your patience a little bit more to clarify things in my own head, as I am very much a newbie and possibly a little slow as well. From the two pictures, am I correct in assuming the top one is how an alternative layout in the Breedon style, and the lower picture, is my layout with the minimal changes you think would make it a 'decent child's layout'?

 

On the top photo, what do the green strips and the two magenta spots mean? The former could be my platforms relocated, and the latter could be points, but I'm not sure of the significance of highlighting the latter especially.

 

On the bottom photo I understand the red lines signify where you suggest I place extra crossings, but why are two of the existing track strips highlighed in magenta?

 

Also, I know I am asking a lot of questions and soaking up your precious time, but might I ask you to expand on "A couple of extra crossovers would improve it tremendously and a few more tweak would make it a decent childs layout , see pics, but really a new start a la CJ Freezer 60 plans type layout would be more satisfactory and time/ cost effective". I am not trying to be obtuse, but to start again would be a lot quite difficult in terms of my inferior abilities / knowledge and money (I was unemployed for 7 months and only recently started working again). I am certainly not ruling it out at all, but I would appreciate having a bit of background so I can evaluate the costs and benefits.

 

Thanks again.

[DCB]

The two pictures on my previous post were in the wrong order, the upper is a more extensive redesign with the platforms in green, Magenta spots are the result of not aligning the tracks quite correctly.  The lower shows the quick fix of changing the points and is reproduced below in a slightly different form.

 

The quickest fix is to remove the pair of left hand points forming the crossover between inner and middle track nd re lay them as a crossover between outer and middle tracks this forming a loop instead of a dead end siding   Then a new crossover formed of right hand points can be laid in between inner and middle tracks allowing trains into the inner track platform area withtout having to shunt into  a short dead end first.  See Pic

[28XX]

It is still possible to build a layout, connect a power clip and a DC controller and run trains.

 

DCC is a massive disincentive to newbies like yourself to get to grips with the hobby, run some trains and find out where your area of interest lies.

 

Your own locomotives are no doubt DCC so to do this you would have to get them into DC mode or de-chip them.

[MikeHohn]

It is not clear whether you have run this layout at all. Do you have a DCC system, locomotive and rolling stock? The layout looks to be in running order; is that true?

 

I suggest you start running some trains on the current layout, do some shunting, and discover the features and limitations of your trackplan. You will discover that you cannot switch cars onto some sidings because you cannot run the locomotive around the cars. That is why it has been advised to add some crossovers. You need a loop as a runaround.

 

Running trains should give you some insight. Once comfortable you might want to make some of the modifications suggested in the earlier posts. In my experience DCC is no harder than DC in regard to track laying and wiring.

 

Also, many or most DCC locomotives allow you to run them on DC layouts, at least on this side of the pond (you figured out I am American didn't you?).

 

Above all, run trains and discover which direction you want to go.

[Cardinal Richtea]

It is not clear whether you have run this layout at all. Do you have a DCC system, locomotive and rolling stock? The layout looks to be in running order; is that true?

 

I suggest you start running some trains on the current layout, do some shunting, and discover the features and limitations of your trackplan. You will discover that you cannot switch cars onto some sidings because you cannot run the locomotive around the cars. That is why it has been advised to add some crossovers. You need a loop as a runaround.

 

Running trains should give you some insight. Once comfortable you might want to make some of the modifications suggested in the earlier posts. In my experience DCC is no harder than DC in regard to track laying and wiring.

 

Also, many or most DCC locomotives allow you to run them on DC layouts, at least on this side of the pond (you figured out I am American didn't you?).

 

Above all, run trains and discover which direction you want to go.

 

I have several DCC engines and loads of analog. My pre -built layout is DCC and appears to work imperfectly - the locos charge around at full speed in one location, but I think this was due to the old firmware on the controller which I have had upgraded and should be returned to me very soon.

[MikeHohn]

I hope the upgrade fixes the problem.

 

In the meantime, you asked about ways to remove those pieces of wood. About the only way I can think of is with a chisel. If not glued down very well they might pop off. More likely you will have to work harder at it and the surface will be a little rough when you finish, but eventually buildings, roads and scenery will cover the irregularities.

[Zomboid]

Don't be afraid of starting again. If the track is pinned then it should be quite easy to lift, and the track is probably set track of some nature so should be fine to reuse.

The crossover changes suggested above will go some way to improve it, but if you want a rural scene then you'd be better off not wasting time modifying and building something you don't want.

[Cardinal Richtea]

Don't be afraid of starting again. If the track is pinned then it should be quite easy to lift, and the track is probably set track of some nature so should be fine to reuse.

The crossover changes suggested above will go some way to improve it, but if you want a rural scene then you'd be better off not wasting time modifying and building something you don't want.

 

I am not disagreeing at all, but am concerned about the electrics / technical side of things especially with pulling up the points etc (not to mention cost after being out of work for so long). Maybe I can find some retired trains enthusiast who can assist me for a bit of pocketmoney......

[DCB]

Which area of the country (World?) are you in, there may well be people reading this who would be pleased to lend a hand.

[Cardinal Richtea]

Which area of the country (World?) are you in, there may well be people reading this who would be pleased to lend a hand.

I live in the Borough of Bromley on the Kent - London border. There is actually a large local model railway association whom I wrote to, but unfortunately I did not get a response - guess they are too busy with their own members.

[Cardinal Richtea]

I would very much like to add the crossover points as recommended by David, but I am hampered by my lack of knowledge. I went to a well renowned modelling shop near me and was advised that DCC points can be a tricky, so to do it under the supervision of someone who knows what they are doing. I wrote to both the modelling associations near me, in the hope that I might entice a retired member to assist me in exchange for payment, but neither wrote back to me. Is there any such thing as model railway consultancy? I am willing to pay (although not too much as I only started working again 6 weeks ago after 8 months unemployed). Right now I feel a bit stuck, so any advice would be welcome.

[bbishop]

I may be your nearest RMWebber .....

 

First stupid question.  Are you using DCC points, or is it a DCC layout with analogue points?

 

Bill

[Cardinal Richtea]

I may be your nearest RMWebber .....

 

First stupid question.  Are you using DCC points, or is it a DCC layout with analogue points?

 

Bill

I believe it is the former, as when I asked how I could run analog locos on it the former owner said I'd need to change the points. Thanks

[bbishop]

I think digital points are beyond my skill base.

 

Bill

[edcayton]

I think your best bet is to go along and join a club. Don't expect people to drop everything and sort your problems, but I am sure they will ask about your situation and point you in the direction of members with the requisite knowledge. Sorry to harp on, but I still think you'd be better off starting anew.

 

Ed

[Cardinal Richtea]

I think digital points are beyond my skill base.

 

Bill

They are manually operated, not motorised, if that makes a difference.

[Cardinal Richtea]

I think your best bet is to go along and join a club. Don't expect people to drop everything and sort your problems, but I am sure they will ask about your situation and point you in the direction of members with the requisite knowledge. Sorry to harp on, but I still think you'd be better off starting anew.

 

Ed

 

 

Really, I don't disagree with you, but it's ust where I am (pretty much starting out), I'd like to walk before I can run. If I have issues doing something small, it would be even more difficult to start everything from scratch. If I can add two points and make my setup workable, I can always go for a big project like starting from scratch when I have a bit more confidence, knowledge, and money.

[imt]

You are obviously seriously confused by a lot of things - so the advice of go to a club and learn is very good advice. We won't be able to teach you all you need here - and there are so many various opinions that the essential will get lost in the arguments and detail.

 

The difference between DC and DCC is that DC uses direct current to the rails, DCC uses shaped alternating current on which it superimposes the DCC commands which the decoders are "listening" for.  There may be decoders in point motors and other accessories as well as in the locomotives. In DCC the loco keeps obeying the command it last got until a new one arrives - so if you tell loco 6 to move forward it will keep doing that until it falls off the track, hits something or you send another command.

 

All layouts need good electricity supplies to the rails - so you usually need more than just one feed on anything more complex than a simple circle.  In DC you often have isolating sections which you can deliberately switch off (say) to hold a train/loco in a loop or siding whilst you control another one. For DCC you need to ensure a good feed to all tracks - hence the idea of lots of track feeds. Points and rails are the same for each - DC and DCC.  Points can be isolating or non isolating.  The isolating kind mean that in DC if you change a point away from a dead-end siding there is no power into that siding. That doesn't matter in DCC provided you wire a feed to all sidings (since when you tell a loco to stop it stays there until you tell it to move again).

 

You will hear lots of comments about making points good for DCC - you don't need to, I don't others do.  What you do need to do is ensure that all bits of track have a good feed to them.

 

If you have DC locos (which you say you do) attach a simple controller and run some trains - you'll soon find out whether the points are isolating or not.