Insurance mailing restrictions

[JimF51]

I asking this out of curiousity, not as a complaint or rant. Hoping some one or more of the smaller suppliers might be able to explain.

 

Some time ago, well, probably over a year, I contacted a well known mfr. of wagon kits regarding purchasing a few. I was told via reply email they did not ship to the US, due to insurance restrictions. They referred me to a list of UK dealers (4 at the time) who carried their products.

 

Recently, a friend over here had the same thing come up with a N scale mfr.

 

Is insurance that does cover shipping to the US so much more expensive?

 

I would not really even be curious if this was the norm, but I have been buying from the UK since back in the 70's (war gaming figures back then), and railway items off and on for about 10 years now. Only that once has it come up for me.

 

Anyway, just wondering.

 

Thanks.

 

Jim

[Mike Bellamy]

I wonder if it because of Manufacturer's or Product Liability insurance rather than shipping. Obviously there isn't much in a model railway kit that could be dangerous and lead to a claim but other products might be 'hazardous' and so the insurance company might have a clause that says they can't sell their good to USA. Here we have a saying 'Where there's a blame, there's a claim' and the insurer doesn't want the potential risk of a multi million dollar claim.

 

Perhaps someone from the insurance business could comment - or a manufacturer / retailer who won't sell to the States.

 

.

[Moxy]

I wonder if it because of Manufacturer's or Product Liability insurance rather than shipping. Obviously there isn't much in a model railway kit that could be dangerous and lead to a claim but other products might be 'hazardous' and so the insurance company might have a clause that says they can't sell their good to USA. Here we have a saying 'Where there's a blame, there's a claim' and the insurer doesn't want the potential risk of a multi million dollar claim.

 

Perhaps someone from the insurance business could comment - or a manufacturer / retailer who won't sell to the States.

 

.

 

That is exactly the reason Mike, it is the cost of providing Public and Products Liability for businesses who deal with the USA, I don't have exact figures but it is generally a lot more expensive than providing the same cover for UK only, a cost that may be prohibitive for the sole trader/small business.

 

Kind regards

 

Moxy

 

(ex) Insurance Broker Manager

[Quarryscapes]

It is pretty expensive. For Royal Mail International shipments with up to £250 compensation will cost you almost £20 for a kilo. By courier, then anything between £13 and £46 with only as much as £50 compensation offered - and from experience it's a lot easier to get RM to cough up than a courier should you need to. 

[Retro_man]

That is exactly the reason Mike, it is the cost of providing Public and Products Liability for businesses who deal with the USA, I don't have exact figures but it is generally a lot more expensive than providing the same cover for UK only, a cost that may be prohibitive for the sole trader/small business.

 

Kind regards

 

Moxy

 

(ex) Insurance Broker Manager

 

We were told by the owner of Cambrian that they could no longer supply us due to the cost of product liability insurance for Canada/USA being greater than the value of sales to this region.

 

We still have a few Cambrian kits in stock, but once they are sold, there will be no more.

 

Steve

Model Railway Imports

[Jonboy]

Dropping USA and Canada from our list of areas served (with craft supplies) dropped our liability insurance by 33%...

[david.hill64]

We are in the same boat: the cost of product liability insurance for the Gladiator range to cover north America far outweighs the value of any likely sales, so we are unable to sell to there.

[Talltim]

As it's the product liability rather than postage insurance that the issue, how does that work with resellers. If someone buys a product from a manufacturer without insurance covering North America and sells it on eBay to someone in NA, is the manufacturer still liable?

[JimF51]

Okay, that makes sense, that it's a mfrs. liability that adds the cost, and which many decide to save on by not selling overseas. Both my experiences, and the friend's N scale experience, were with mfrs.

 

So,Tim, not sure, but I suspect it is just the mfrs who are liable. Because the issue does appear to be only with sellers who are also the mfr. If it wasn't, I think most shops in the UK would also not ship overseas.

 

Just glad not all mfrs, even smaller ones, take this attitude.

 

Jim

[Moxy]

As it's the product liability rather than postage insurance that the issue, how does that work with resellers. If someone buys a product from a manufacturer without insurance covering North America and sells it on eBay to someone in NA, is the manufacturer still liable?

 

- only so far as the limit of their UK products liability insurance policy.  There is also the Public Liability aspect to consider.

 

The manufacturer has no control over where or to whom the reseller/retailer sells his goods, so he cannot be held liable for the actions of the reseller, who should have his own Public Liability cover and against whom the customer has first complaint if there is a problem.

 

If there is to be a claim against the Product Liability cover, it would probably have to be the reseller who brought the claim as they are the ones with the contract with the manufacturer, but I very much doubt that a UK based insurer of a UK based manufacturer would entertain any claim that falls outside the geographical limits of their (UK) policy.  They would be much more likely to say to the reseller 'you chose to deal with the USA, take it up with your insurers.'

 

The reason insurers have different rates for different regions is more to do with the different legal systems around the world, for example litigation in US courts usually results in much higher damages being awarded than would be the case in the UK courts, so insurers have to rate the risk accordingly. If that means a small business chooses only to deal with UK based wholesalers/retailers, then that is a business decision for him or her.  If a retailer makes the choice to sell worldwide, then that is their choice.

 

Kind regards

 

Moxy

[Adams442T]

Okay, that makes sense, that it's a mfrs. liability that adds the cost, and which many decide to save on by not selling overseas. Both my experiences, and the friend's N scale experience, were with mfrs.

 

So,Tim, not sure, but I suspect it is just the mfrs who are liable. Because the issue does appear to be only with sellers who are also the mfr. If it wasn't, I think most shops in the UK would also not ship overseas.

 

Just glad not all mfrs, even smaller ones, take this attitude.

 

Jim

 

The thing is Jim that possibly some of the smaller manufacturers who aren't 'clued-up' to this may not even realise what liabilities lurk across the pond, and what it could cost them, especially as US society seems to be becoming increasingly litigious. 

[JimF51]

Perhaps, Adams442T, but I think if we US folks were taking small UK rail manufactures to court so often (since we are so prone to do so), there would be quite a bit being written up in the hobby forums and press, as warning to all the mfrs who do still ship over here.

 

My suspicion is more that the UK (and perhaps US ones, though haven't read that this is happening to buyers in the UK of US items) insurance companies play up the 'what if' factor, jack up the rates based on that, then give a lower rate if and when the insured asks about it.

 

I went and looked at my notebook of purchases. Since 2005, I have bought from 8 different small UK mfrs, both rail amd military model products. All have shipped to me with no problem. So 2 out of 10 would not. Either the 8 are not astute enough to know what they are paying for insurance (I doubt that about all 8), or, they feel the cost is worth it, to provide customer service no matter where the customer lives.

 

Be that as it may, I have one good friend who is willing to receive any item that can't be shipped to the US, and re-post it to me.

 

Jim

[autocoach]

The only UK supplier I have seen with this problem appears to be Cambrian Models. Kernow Model Centre gladly supplies their kits to me with no qualms. They will do special orders for me as when I wanted 10 1923 RCH PO End Door kits for clay service for ECLP Wenford Drys service. 

[JimF51]

Yes, Autocoach, that's one that I ran into the issue with. I should also mention, that in a way, it was good thing, though. The SECR wagons they do are almost all post 1912 ones, so would have been incorrect for me, anyway.

 

Jim

[Jonboy]

 

My suspicion is more that the UK (and perhaps US ones, though haven't read that this is happening to buyers in the UK of US items) insurance companies play up the 'what if' factor, jack up the rates based on that, then give a lower rate if and when the insured asks about it.

 

It is interesting though when looking to buy from the UK how many US suppliers will not ship consider shipping outside the US (or for many even the 48 contiguous states when you get into their T&C's). When you contact them many will not waiver this, or allow collection via courier, and this is for larger volume B2B purchases rather than a B2C basis.