YK 50A Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Hi, A friend has asked for my help moving his late Father's 3 rail layout from the loft of one property to a soon to be modified outbuilding in another. While the boards are modular (of sorts), the wiring is not and it is completely out of my comfort zone. My initial suggestion was to start again with the wiring - there isn't a diagram and there are switches, point motors and isolating sections all over the place - I wondered if there was anyone vaguely local to North Yorkshire who might be able to assist. For now, I have uploaded a few pictures: click here! Any comments (or gems of wisdom) appreciated, Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Wow! Very few HD layouts are anything like that well developed scenically. Too far away to help with wiring, but consider that wiring a layout is really simple things repeated, rather than truly complicated. Someone here will link you to HD data sheets showing how to do it. This outbuilding, is it dry and at least slightly heated? HD is "rust magnet" stuff, and it would be horrible to see this wonderful collection and work get eaten by tin worms. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium dhjgreen Posted March 30, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted March 30, 2016 I would recommend a desicating dehumidifier over heating. It's the damp that causes the rust. Cheaper to run than heating for the same effect. I use one to protect card models, it also prevents mould forming. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted March 30, 2016 Author Share Posted March 30, 2016 Thanks chaps, but the outbuilding is in hand and is not the issue. I have been modelling on and off for 40 years and while I don't consider myself an expert, I have already made lots of mistakes. My mate is a builder and restorer. It's the best way of working with or replacing the miles of unlabelled, undiagrammed and apparently using whatever colour was available at the time wiring - and 3 rail is a format with which I am unfamiliar. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dublodad Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Garry (Golden Fleece 30) is the closest 3 rail operator that I am aware of. He is in the Selby area I believe. He may know of others in the area who may be able to advise/help. Garry is very committed family wise and may not be available himself!! Terry Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted March 30, 2016 Share Posted March 30, 2016 Hi, A friend has asked for my help moving his late Father's 3 rail layout from the loft of one property to a soon to be modified outbuilding in another. While the boards are modular (of sorts), the wiring is not and it is completely out of my comfort zone. My initial suggestion was to start again with the wiring - there isn't a diagram and there are switches, point motors and isolating sections all over the place - I wondered if there was anyone vaguely local to North Yorkshire who might be able to assist. For now, I have uploaded a few pictures: click here! Any comments (or gems of wisdom) appreciated, Alun Hornby dublo 3 rail wiring is basically very simple,one of the advantages of 3 rail.I use the tinplate track base as the common wiring,(centre terminal of points,signals & electric uncoupling rails) Have a look here, http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9097 Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted March 31, 2016 Share Posted March 31, 2016 That was the sort of thing I was aiming for, but on a rather smaller scale. We downsized before I could get near finishing it and now I have no space..... Unfortunately, I live too far away........ However I would suggest ripping everything out and rewiring from scratch. Fault finding is a nightmare without a diagram. Colour coding is recommended.... Dublo wiring is simple. The track base is the common return (extra wiring may be necessary on a large layout to avoid relying on the fishplates for continuity (though I've never had problems). Breaks in the centre rail can be made using insulating tabs, between the third rail contact tongues (or squares of cardboard ), isolating rails or by means of isolating points (a complication here, as there are isolating and non-isolating manual points - all electric points are non-isolating). Dublo switches are colour coded - black on-off, maroon flash switches for solenoids and green two way for colour light signals etc. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 Garry (Golden Fleece 30) is the closest 3 rail operator that I am aware of. He is in the Selby area I believe. He may know of others in the area who may be able to advise/help. Garry is very committed family wise and may not be available himself!! I saw some of Garry's posts when looking around the Dublo threads. I am very close to Selby, but I understand family commitments. ...However I would suggest ripping everything out and rewiring from scratch. Fault finding is a nightmare without a diagram. Colour coding is recommended.... Dublo wiring is simple. The track base is the common return (extra wiring may be necessary on a large layout to avoid relying on the fishplates for continuity (though I've never had problems). Breaks in the centre rail can be made using insulating tabs, between the third rail contact tongues (or squares of cardboard ), isolating rails or by means of isolating points (a complication here, as there are isolating and non-isolating manual points - all electric points are non-isolating). Dublo switches are colour coded - black on-off, maroon flash switches for solenoids and green two way for colour light signals etc. A complete rewire was my initial thought and largely for the same reasons. It's deciphering what's already there and how to replicate it - if you ever fancy a holiday, it's nice round 'ere. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted April 1, 2016 Author Share Posted April 1, 2016 Hornby dublo 3 rail wiring is basically very simple,one of the advantages of 3 rail.I use the tinplate track base as the common wiring,(centre terminal of points,signals & electric uncoupling rails) Have a look here, http://www.modelrailforum.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9097 Ray. Reading the link, I'm wondering what the point motor switches are. They're black, clearly passing contact, look like the R044/RT44 except for a pair of screw terminals. Could be anything, homebrew even. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Hornby Dublo D1 point & signal switches are red passing contact switches,Black are on/off switches for isolating rails & Green are for colour light signals. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Il Grifone Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 The black switches have two adjacent screw terminals and are on/off. Intended for isolating sections, but also suitable for lighting etc. The other two switches have three terminals. The single one on one side is the common. They are similar to the Tri-ang/Hornby switches, but have different colour coding. Dublo switches have a bakelite case with a metal plate screwed on one side. They can be grouped by removing the plate and bolting together. Dublo used to supply grouping rods' for this (lengths of blackened 8 BA threaded rod long enough for 4 or 6 switches). These are 'collectable' unfortunately and priced accordingly (suitably sized metric rod would do instead ). There are also two push buttons, which are identical, except for colour of the button - red for uncoupling rails and green for the TPO unit I have to admit to using Trix switches myself - the Dublo ones suffer from 'collector prices' though the Trix are now going the same way.... These have a metal case and conveniently plug together. Obviously they have yet another colour code - black passing contact, red isolating and yellow two way (with a centre 'off' position). Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
APOLLO Posted April 1, 2016 Share Posted April 1, 2016 Nice layout. A suggestion (having been here years ago). 1 Number every wire where you intend to cut before separating boards. Nothing fancy, start at 1 and just go up for each wire you tackle. 2 Number tags on each side of the wire, at least two tags on each side as sods law dictates some will fall off !! 3 I used small pieces of self adhesive labels, folded over the wire, with number written on both sides. 4. Keep a written log as you cut and number. i.e Board 1 wires 1 to (say) 25 Wire 1 black, wire 2 red etc Thus after the move each wire should be easy enough to identify and rejoin probably using terminal connector strips. Hope this helps and good luck. Brit15 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 The black switches have two adjacent screw terminals and are on/off. Intended for isolating sections, but also suitable for lighting etc. The other two switches have three terminals. The single one on one side is the common... A case in point and why I am looking for help. An analogy might be that if I see a Streamline point, I can tell whether it's live or dead frog. If I look a bit closer, I will have a decent stab at how it's wired. Nice layout. A suggestion (having been here years ago). 1 Number every wire where you intend to cut before separating boards. Nothing fancy, start at 1 and just go up for each wire you tackle. 2 Number tags on each side of the wire, at least two tags on each side as sods law dictates some will fall off !! 3 I used small pieces of self adhesive labels, folded over the wire, with number written on both sides. 4. Keep a written log as you cut and number. i.e Board 1 wires 1 to (say) 25 Wire 1 black, wire 2 red etc Thus after the move each wire should be easy enough to identify and rejoin probably using terminal connector strips... That was the other option I considered - multi-pinning the looms between the boards too, but we're replicating any faults which have developed over the years and we won't get much closer to understanding what goes where and why. The looms are tens of wires thick and I suspect evolved with the layout. The builder had intended to write a manual, but didn't get to it. Alun Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sagaguy Posted April 2, 2016 Share Posted April 2, 2016 For red point & signal switches,the single trminal on the back of the switch is the common,ie. connected to one side of your power supply.The other wire from your supply always goes to the centre terminal of the point or signal motor.The two terminals on the front of the switch are connected to the two outer terminals of the motors. Peco dead frog points are identified by if the frog is all brown plastic,it`s a dead frog point,if it has a metal frog,it`s a live frog. Ray. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
YK 50A Posted April 2, 2016 Author Share Posted April 2, 2016 Peco dead frog points are identified by if the frog is all brown plastic,it`s a dead frog point,if it has a metal frog,it`s a live frog. I think you might have misinterpreted my previous post, but thank you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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