Quarryscapes Posted May 2, 2016 Share Posted May 2, 2016 Has anybody ever built one? I've just ordered one, and am just looking for reassurance I haven't made an expensive mistake as the photo on the website is hardly a great advert! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted May 4, 2016 Share Posted May 4, 2016 (edited) I bought one of these a few years ago, and started to build the tender, then stopped. It would be the first all brass loco that I've built. I planned to build it in 00 gauge. The instructions booklet is very big and seems to be thorough, as far as I got. I bought the kit all inclusive, wheels, motor etc. Maybe I'll dig it out and have another go. Maybe we could compare notes? RH Edited May 21, 2016 by relaxinghobby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted May 4, 2016 Author Share Posted May 4, 2016 I bought one of these a few years ago, and started to build the tender, then stopped. It would be the first all brass loco that I've built. I planned to build it in 00 gauge. The instructions booklet is very big and seems to be thorough, as far as I got. I bought the kit all inclusive, wheels, motor etc. Maybe I'll did it out and have another go. Maybe we could compare notes? RH Might be a plan that! I presume there's a boiler that'll need rolling in there somewhere? I nearly bought the complete set but I'd rather use my own gears and wheels, as I'll most likely build it split framed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted May 7, 2016 Share Posted May 7, 2016 I can't find the kit yet.This is the usual tale of how kits get divided up and lost. I've found the instruction book which is quiet big, 15 pages of A4 size, which includes histories of the loco and the Bishops Castle Railway. After a quick look it does seem you have to roll the boiler, it looks easy as it is so small and in three short separate sections, the smoke box, boiler and raised firebox. I'll see if I can find the tender I started, it's in a small green cardboard box which originally had teabags in it, just the right size for a 4mm tender. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 Front page of kit instructions, a drawing of the loco for those who are familiar with the prototype. A normal size goods engine from the builders Kitsons of that era of the 1860's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted May 8, 2016 Share Posted May 8, 2016 You are both obviously looking to produce the Mid Wales engines from your kits. I was interested in doing the same thing and when they were first released I asked Mercian if they had any plans to produce the earlier four-wheeled tender (which, as you are undoubtedly aware, is what the MWR version had - not the later six-wheeled tender that comes with the kit) He thought about it long and hard then suggested I ask him again in a few months. I left it several months - probably close on a year - before asking again and got a polite but firm decline. Pity, as it was all that stopped me getting one. I quite fancied converting one to the rather prettier, if shorter-lived 0-4-2's. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted May 8, 2016 Author Share Posted May 8, 2016 Good to see a drawing included, any idea if it is to scale? Mike, I plan on having both mid Wales and Bishop's Castle versions eventually, if all goes well on the first model, a 4 wheel tender should be easy to knock up. Im fairly confident an 0-4-2 could be knocked up using the drawing as a guide, I'm pretty sure the boiler was the same, but I don't have my rcts to hand at the moment. I'm quite looking forward to this arriving now. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 I can't for the life of me remember where, but I recall reading that the only difference between the 0-6-0's and the 0-4-2's was the size of the wheels and the consequent differences in the axle heights and splasher sizes. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 Would the four wheel tender look anything like this http://colonelstephenssociety.co.uk/onewebmedia/LSWR%201000%20Gallon%20Tender%20for%20Ilfracombe%20Goods%20WM.jpg a Beyer Peacock one? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 No . They were actually very similar to the ones the Sharps Goods towed around. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 There is a drawing of an 0-6-0 and tender in RW Kidner's book "The Mid Wales Railway" and a bigger version of the same drawing in Mike Sharman's book "Great Western Railway 0-6-0 Standard Gauge Locomotives" Both books published by Oakwood Press. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted May 9, 2016 Author Share Posted May 9, 2016 So there is, hadn't noticed that. I do wonder why the 6 wheel tender was chosen, Carlisle was originally fitted with 4 wheel and a kit with that tender could represent the mid Wales locos too. I also wonder where Carlisle got the 6 wheel tender from in the first place, it's not like the BCR was swimming with locos that could have donated it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted May 9, 2016 Share Posted May 9, 2016 It gained the 6-wheeler on a trip to Swindon in 1924 when being fitted with a vacuum brake on the orders of the BoT. It was this one that was originally made by Beyer Peacock who, I vaguely recall, built a lot of the GWR's Armstrong Goods that were all close to or at the ends of their lives in that period. I wonder if it was a case of Swindon contacting Bishops Castle with a message along the lines of "That Kitson 4-wheeled tender is in extremely poor condition. We've got a bigger Beyer Peacock tender that's surplus to requirements. Want it?" Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted May 10, 2016 Share Posted May 10, 2016 I've been doing a bit more delving - it's a displacement activity, intended to take my mind off the way things aren't going too well getting the layout ready for ExpoEM. Work the BCR couldn't do itself was carried out by the GWR because it doesn't appear that they ever paid a bill in their entire existence and owed money to everyone other than Swindon. The only reason they didn't owe the GWR money too was because Swindon took the precaution of always demanding payment in advance and waiting for the cheque to clear before releasing whatever it was paying for. With regard to the original four-wheeled tender there is a relevant anecdote. Apparently at one time the Bishops Castle area had a 7pm to 7am curfew on its water supply. The railway complained that being unable to fill the engine until 7am meant they could not raise steam in time for the first train of the day. When asked why they didn't fill up before the supply was turned off the evening before, the answer was that the water would have leaked away overnight! 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted May 16, 2016 Author Share Posted May 16, 2016 (edited) My kit has arrived! It's certainly an interesting affair! The instructions themselves are a bit sparse, but there is a lot of background notes and so on. The boiler appears to be partly rolled. On flicking through the instructions, it makes mention of a lot of things that shouldn't be - the tender 'may' be 1mm too wide and I may have to chop it in the middle and narrow it, the chassis likewise might need 1mm lopping off the front and 0.5mm off the rear. It also makes reference to a nickel silver fret, but all my frets are brass, not sure if that's a change of material or a missing fret, there appear to be enough parts for a loco in there.The biggest disappointment though is that the smokebox door supplied is not of the right pattern at all, having parallel hinge straps and not the Y shaped ones of the prototype. There is a second plain door, with etched Y shaped hinge straps on one of the frets for a DIY approach. Not a huge deal, I was planning on replacing the boiler unit with a 3D printed part anyway as I don't do rolling things. There are some interesting notes regarding the production of the kit - no drawings being available other than presumably the same line drawing seen in the Mid Wales book, and the tender is from the Swindon weight diagram. The etched appear to be very well done, nicely etched all round. There is no provision for anything other than rigid chassis, spacers are for 00 and EM. Despite the fixed axles, the rods are articulated. So first impressions, doesn't appear to be awful; doesn't appear to be excellent, proof of the pudding is however very much in the eating, so I'm going to go clear a space amongst the other started but not finished projects and begin work on this one! Edited May 16, 2016 by Quarryscapes Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CKPR Posted May 16, 2016 Share Posted May 16, 2016 I'll be watching this thread with interest as I've also recently purchased this kit with a view to building the BCR version, presuming it's not too similar to some of the early 0-6-0s of the M&CR. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 Hmm I think my instructions are missing some pages, some are definitely in the wrong order. There are a hell of a lot of parts that are not even mentioned Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 Here are some shots of the contents of the box: And that tender inner is definitely going to need narrowing: 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 Here's a quick rundown of some of the issues identified so far Lets go round the parts: Footplate: For EM needs slots widening to clear wheels, IE they're in the wrong place. Absolutely nothing to guide where any other part should fit. Coupling Rods: Totally wrong for loco - parallel rods with round bosses, split at the front. Should be fishbellied with square bosses, split at the back. Tender: Inner former too wide, or at least it's wider than the overlay. I have no idea which if either is he correct width. Tender chassis: axle slots are 3mm. No method of keeping axles in place. Coal Divider - too wide, it would span two tenders side by side! Lamp Irons massively over size. Cab: Lower sheets have rivet embossing on the wrong side. No front portion provided. The drawings in the instructions are of the kit, and not the prototype. Neither that on the front cover or the separate sheet is to 4mm so can't be used to work out where parts are supposed to fit. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted May 17, 2016 Author Share Posted May 17, 2016 More food for thought, this is the drawing of the Mid Wales engines I have, run through the scanner: These dimensions do not tally with the published ones, but the boiler sizes do. The published wheelbases are 9'6" for the tender (38mm) and 6'10" + 7'2" for loco (27.33+28.66). On scanning and overlaying the Carlisle drawings from the kit they match very well, although I can only modify sizes in whole percentage points, I suspect if I could adjust it even to 1 decimal place they would line up even more accurately. It is clear that the Carlisle kit has the wheelbase set at the published spacings. Another interesting thing I noticed, whilst Carlisle's rods are clearly jointed to the rear, the Mid Wales locos were jointed at the front, but were still square bossed. I will now ponder how to proceed. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike morley Posted May 17, 2016 Share Posted May 17, 2016 Does it start to seem like the Peter K Sharps Goods all over again? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted May 18, 2016 Author Share Posted May 18, 2016 Does it start to seem like the Peter K Sharps Goods all over again? Not quite as bad as those perhaps, there are at least some instructions, a full set of parts and the shape is reasonably accurate. I've made a start: I didn't use the inner former at all, the etchings are in 18thou brass so plenty sturdy on their own, and hellish to form the flare on. The front piece had to be narrowed approx 1mm to fit between the sides. The soldering is a mess thanks to my soldering station giving up the ghost, power output nowhere near the 75W it's supposed to be and it just kept sticking itself to the brass. Antex 25W to the rescue! 6 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quarryscapes Posted May 19, 2016 Author Share Posted May 19, 2016 Bit more progress. There is a coal space former for want of a better description mentioned and photographed in the instructions, but it's existence cannot be proved in the box of parts, so I fabricated one using the original inner tank former chopped to fit and some scrap nickel silver sheet. The frames have also been added, their position is I'm afraid the result of guesswork as the instructions merely say inboard of the footplate edge, but not by how much. Mine is slightly uneven, if I can be bothered I may correct the wonky side but as there is absolutely nothing to aid it's location it's a fiddly thing trying to get it straight, even and at right angles to the floor! It occurred to me several hours after building, that I should have made the tank top follow the curved line of rivets rather than join it to the front plate as intended, never mind! I should also possibly have cut a hole in the floor in order to house the DCC decoder. 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
relaxinghobby Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 (edited) Message to Quarryscapes. I've found my kit if you want to compare what's in it if you think you have things missing. I had a little go at the chassis as getting that going is the hardest stage and the rest depends on it. Having to file 1mm of from the front and 0.5 from the back sort indicates this kit is a beta version requiring a high degree of skill. Can I file the ends down leaving a square and straight end? Yes the page numbering on the instructions is a bit confusing towards the end. Have not found the tender yet. Edited May 21, 2016 by relaxinghobby Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Posted May 21, 2016 Share Posted May 21, 2016 / there are at least some instructions, a full set of parts and the shape is reasonably accurate. "reasonably accurate" is perfectly good enough for the vast majority of kit builders and modellers. At least it is far better than nothing at all. Sure that may upset the more pernickety rivet counters, but then they could go out and produce something better and more accurate couldn't they? For the rest, something that can actually be built into a close likeness is perfectly good enough, while we wait for their invention. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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