Minimalist French Industrial system

[Fat Controller]

For a few years in the late 1920s and early 1930s, this two-foot line ran a few metres form the metre-gauge Chemin du Fer du Beaujolais at Liergues, just outside Villefranche-sur-Saone. Its purpose was simple; cartloads of grapes were tipped into small wagons, which were lifted to first-floor level within the Cave, before being taken to the cuvage (fermenting vessels). These days, most caves use small, self-propelled, wagons, but for a few years, rail was the way. The original drawings for the Cave at Letra (our original cave) show a similar system. I am told that one such system remains in use; I shalll endeavour to find out more when I'm next in the region.

 

 

 

[Focalplane]

Sadly I am not aware of any rail transported grapes down in Languedoc where such an enterprise might have been economic given the sheer bulk of grapes grown. These days grape juice is taken in stainless steel road tankers to Bordeaux to be used to dilute the lesser Bordeaux reds - your average supermarket red wine does not necessarily all come from the area stated on the label!

 

I imagine it is possible that some poor quality wines are eventually transported by rail these days - after they have been turned into industrial alcohol.

[Fat Controller]

Sadly I am not aware of any rail transported grapes down in Languedoc where such an enterprise might have been economic given the sheer bulk of grapes grown. These days grape juice is taken in stainless steel road tankers to Bordeaux to be used to dilute the lesser Bordeaux reds - your average supermarket red wine does not necessarily all come from the area stated on the label!

 

I imagine it is possible that some poor quality wines are eventually transported by rail these days - after they have been turned into industrial alcohol.

The rail transport's only for a fairly short distance, from the unloading quay to the cuvage. There is still some rail transport of the finished product, however; Bristol Freightliner terminal receives daily trainloads of the stuff, whilst Brian Crozier, in Australia, transports grapes in insulated 'boxes' from one end of Australia to the other to make his 'Petaluma'

[Joseph_Pestell]

I don't think it is all that long since wine was transported in bulk on French railways (and it may still be). There are several large wine firms in Languedoc with rail connections that were certainly in use 20 years ago.

 

Going further back in time, wine was a major traffic on the Tramways de l'Aude transported in barrels and transhipped at Lezignan.

 

Paris had a whole quartier of wine warehouses at Bercy served by trains on the PLM/SNCF.

[Focalplane]

I should add that there is a book called, I think, War and Wine, about the French Resistance's role in preventing wine from being stolen and shipped to Germany. Most derailments were, apparently, related to these trains.

[Fat Controller]

I should add that there is a book called, I think, War and Wine, about the French Resistance's role in preventing wine from being stolen and shipped to Germany. Most derailments were, apparently, related to these trains.

Many years ago, back in 1979, we were vendanging in Herault, somewhere around St Andre de Sangonis. We often talked to a local, who even then was in his seventies. He'd been sent to Germany as forced labour, and one day had noticed a wine tank wagon from Herault being unloaded in sidings near the factory he was working in. Somehow, he escaped, and smuggled himself into the tank, travelling back to his native land over a period of several days.

I'll wager the next load of wine carried in that tank tasted even worse than normal, with some of the 'farmyard' bouquet more usually associated with Pinot Noir than any of the southern cepages.

[rue_d_etropal]

I don't think it is in France, but I have seen pictures of a narrow gauge system connected to a vineyard, using very tall hopper wagons. Possibly Germany. Also I think there is a monorail system connected to hillside vineyard in Italy.

It was not that long ago that sheep were moved from low to upper pastures on the roads, but now the norm is to use road transport.

Given the problems there have been with road tankers transporting cheap Spanish wine have been stopped and emptied by demonstrators, then rail transport might actually be a better method of transport for wine. Just have to make sure tanker wagons are cleaned out properly(not thinking of the WW2 info, but the scandals a few years ago with contaminated tankers being used to transport food stuffs).

One of the fictitious layouts I built a few years ago , in GN15 involved transport of wine barrels and another included other wine connected activities. The mini layout I took to RAMMA a couple of years ago was one such model. The wine transporting wagons resemble oil tankers rather than the iconic 2 barrels found on traditional French standard gauge.

It might not be economically viable to use railways, but it does make a fun idea for a layout. Another of my layouts used the LGB tanker wagons, and like one of the early publicity photos for LGB, I filled it with wine, and on the day I was not driving to exhibition, had a wine glass filled from it. On the other day, it sadly had to be blackcurrant squash!

 

Just looking at that photo, and the inclusion of points suggests it might have been intended for more than just moving a few wagons. Maybe something was planned, but it never happened. Does give me some ideas though.

[Fat Controller]

I don't think it is in France, but I have seen pictures of a narrow gauge system connected to a vineyard, using very tall hopper wagons. Possibly Germany. Also I think there is a monorail system connected to hillside vineyard in Italy.

It was not that long ago that sheep were moved from low to upper pastures on the roads, but now the norm is to use road transport.

Given the problems there have been with road tankers transporting cheap Spanish wine have been stopped and emptied by demonstrators, then rail transport might actually be a better method of transport for wine. Just have to make sure tanker wagons are cleaned out properly(not thinking of the WW2 info, but the scandals a few years ago with contaminated tankers being used to transport food stuffs).

One of the fictitious layouts I built a few years ago , in GN15 involved transport of wine barrels and another included other wine connected activities. The mini layout I took to RAMMA a couple of years ago was one such model. The wine transporting wagons resemble oil tankers rather than the iconic 2 barrels found on traditional French standard gauge.

It might not be economically viable to use railways, but it does make a fun idea for a layout. Another of my layouts used the LGB tanker wagons, and like one of the early publicity photos for LGB, I filled it with wine, and on the day I was not driving to exhibition, had a wine glass filled from it. On the other day, it sadly had to be blackcurrant squash!

 

Just looking at that photo, and the inclusion of points suggests it might have been intended for more than just moving a few wagons. Maybe something was planned, but it never happened. Does give me some ideas though.

There are some Swiss vineyards that use a funicular railway to transport grapes from vineyard to cave; I saw them somewhere at the eastern end of Lac Leman. The Italian monorail is in the Cinque Terre. I suspect quite a lot of bulk wine is still transported by rail, but in various types of tank container; the trains from Perpignan to Dourges seem to have quite a lot of such tanks branded 'Produites Alilmentaires'.

The system at the cave at Liergues does seem to have a lot of pointwork, which was mirrored at the other end of the quai; the way that the reception of grapes works is that all the grapes from one producer are tipped into one or more 'waggonets'. Each is weighed, checked for condition and sugar content, and then allocated to a particular cuve by the caviste. The payment is based on a 'co-efficent' of quantity, quality and sugar content, so it's imperative that incoming loads are not mixed in the wagonnets.

The last transhumance traffic by rail was from Modane, on the French- Italian border, ceasing about twenty years ago.

[rue_d_etropal]

the pointwork lends its idea to anyone wanting something that could use locos, even if the real line did not. Even the inset track can easily be replicated now.