PhilMortimer Posted June 19, 2018 Author Share Posted June 19, 2018 (edited) Darn! Now why didn't I think of that? (Actually I know why - I'm still working with the individual power units and haven't yet started considering both units together.) Will try it tonight with a temporary lashup. Obviously this complicates the interconnections between the power units (I.e. you need three wires instead of two), but that isn't that difficult. (One wire to connect the LH wheels of both power units, one for the right wheels and one for the series motor feed.). Got the motors fitted to the torque reaction arms. A blob of bath sealant works well - it is flexible enough (along with the slightly flexible nature of the arm) to give some slight movement to accommodate any movement of the motors. Yet can be easily removed if needed to remove the motors. Also fitted the new 1525 motors 54:1 gears to the Mercian style of motor gear mount. Can just be squeezed in with some mods and judicious filing, but had to make some new mounting holes. Not pretty but it works and will be hidden under the tank / bunker. Much slower axle speed and greater control. Just need to check it fits into the loco now under the rear bunker! Edited June 20, 2018 by PhilMortimer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted June 20, 2018 Share Posted June 20, 2018 Given that in most instances there is coal in the bunker, I had no compunction about chopping a hole for the motor in the rear bunker, and overlaying a shroud over the motor which was then covered in coal. Very glad you're getting a solution the motor situation. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted June 20, 2018 Author Share Posted June 20, 2018 Thanks Giles, Yes, I saw that you had to cut a hole in your bunker. I had hoped not to do that and the 1620/40:1 gear box fits in nicely without doing so, even though it is a bit fast. I experimented with the Taff Vale models 1525 / Markits 54:1 combination using the Mercian motor mount and it too JUST fits in the bunker (if you cut the end of the second (rear) motor shaft off). Space is tight, but it is doable. (I may just use a piece of foam glued to the underside of the sloping bunker as the torque reaction arm to keep the motor in place!). Pictures to follow. The motor has to be flat rather than upright on the motor mount, but as I had to make new mounting holes anyhow, it wasn't a problem. It would not fit if the Markits motor mount was used - that will get re-used on something else. Despite the TaffVale Models 1525 having a bit more vibration, I think that this combination is much better than the mashima 1620 / 40:1 combination as supplied. It gives a nice axle rotation speed - half power has it trundling along at a suitable speed of about 90rpm and it is much smoother than the 40:1 gear ratio, with nice and steady starts and stops. I calculated that this combination gives approximately half the axle rotation speed of the 1620/40:1 combination. Will try and take some pictures and video over the next few days to report on progress. However, This means that I can look ahead to stripping down the frames and painting them, as well as cracking on with the bunker and tanks. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted June 21, 2018 Author Share Posted June 21, 2018 (edited) Couple of pictures showing installation of the motor / gearsets into the power units.. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr1st picture above shows the two rear power units with motor and gears installed. The one for my fathers friend is on the LHS and has the smaller Mashima 1620 / 40:1 combination. The one on the right is the one for my own loco and has the Taff Vale Models 1525 / 54:1 combination. Note that the larger motor is lying flat in order to fit under the sloping bunker.The second picture below shows that the 1525 / 54:1 combination JUST fits into the bunker without any modification to the etches. The motor shaft has been cut back in order to fit and indeed was ground back slightly more after this picture was taken.. by Phil Mortimer, on FlickrBelow is a short video showing the rear power unit under test. This is the one fitted with the 1525 / 54:1 combination and is powered up to half power (6V) in both directions. Note that the motor was not retained by any torque reaction control during this video. I'm happy with the smooth operation of this combination. Isn't the movement of the valve gear mesmerizing?Finally, I did follow Simon Dobson;'s suggestion of connecting the motors in series for the loco destined for my fathers friend (1620 / 40: 1 combination) and tested it on the rails Worked like a charm once i got the loco wired up so that power units both ran in the same direction! Nice and controllable and actually ran quite smoothly. Didn't get any video as it was running with wander leads and I needed all my hands to keep it from snagging. Will get video once pickups are fitted after the chassis are painted. Edited June 21, 2018 by PhilMortimer 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Phil, Silk purse from a sow’s ear there! Very nice! Glad the suggestion helped Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted June 21, 2018 Share Posted June 21, 2018 Very nice! It makes all the grief worth while! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted June 25, 2018 Author Share Posted June 25, 2018 Nothing spectacular, but the second 1525 / 54:1 motor gear combination was assembled last night and is ready for fitting in the front power unit. Hopefully that will be tonight. After that, I may just take a couple of days break from this and do something else for a change....... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted July 2, 2018 Author Share Posted July 2, 2018 Sorry for the lack of progress. The mojo has been lacking the past week or so, and it has also been very hot here (over 100F yesterday), which tends to tire you out. Anyhow, I have fitted the last motor gearbox and am working on the front tank structure. The wonky rivets were annoying me and I've been working on replacements. The originals have been filed off and I have ordered some replacements from Prime Miniatures, which will be fitted into newly drilled holes. tedious, but I can't live with the wonky lines at the moment. So progress will probably move back to the rear bunker, the wrapper for which needs modifying to remove the aperture for the firemens side lubricator (not present on the real loco. Some patching to do here. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 Work is progressing. Rear bunker and tank structures being built up. Front tank inner structure being worked on - all rivets removed and lots of holes for new brass rivets that will be fitted once delivered. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 (edited) Both rear bunkers now have wrappers affixed and seam soldered on to form the basic box structure. First one went on a doddle, second one had to be blown apart and done again, as it kept getting out of square. Each required lots of tacking and measuring and use of miniature sash clamps to pull everything into place before seaming up. Pictures to follow, but the loco is now starting to look quite impressive now that the bunkers is fitted. Detail parts still need fitting, but a big step forward in the look of the loco. Front tank still has significant work to do. Pictures to follow (when I take some!) PM Edited July 10, 2018 by PhilMortimer 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted July 11, 2018 Author Share Posted July 11, 2018 (edited) Time for some photo's! First one shows a rear power unit with one of the bunkers tack soldered together and fitted to the chassis. The bunker frame work was bolted to the chassis and then the wrapper (pre-bent to the correct shape around the frame work) was fitted and tack soldered in place. This was to ensure correct alignment. Care is needed to get everything square and plenty of clamps were used to get everything clamped into place prior to tack soldering. (The first bunker unit went together pretty well, the second one fought me tooth and nail and had to be taken apart, cleaned up and done again. Oh well.) After tack soldering, the bunker was released from the chassis, the bunker checked for alignment and squareness and the seams made good, again with much use of clamps. To the right is the underlying frame work of the bunker, whilst to the left is the underlying structure of the front tank. The latter shows that all the wonky lines of rivets have been filed off and the rivet holes drilled out, ready for installation of dome headed rivets (that arrived in the mail this morning, less than a week after being ordered - not bad service to the US!). Marking out and drilling all the holes drove me crazy, but not as badly as if I'd left the wonky rivet lines in place! url=https://flic.kr/p/293kEce][/url]. by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Next Photo shows the bunker framework attached to the chassis along with the preformed wrapper, awaiting clamping into place. One thing to note was that I had originally thought that there was an error in the bunker wrapper, in that it had two apertures for the lubricator. It is in fact correct and only has one on the LHS, so saved me a job. The rear unit running plate DOES have two holes in it, instead of the correct one, and so this had to be filled with some scrap etch, with a channel then filed in it to enable the bunker to sit down correctly. . by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Overhead shot of bunker after seam soldering and cleaning up to make everything secure. Just for grins, I did check if the tank is water tight - it is! Details still need to be added, but it make a nice rigid structure. Details will be added once the basic front tank structures are completed. . by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Rear bunker fitted to rear power unit after seam soldering, showing the outline of the loco starting to develop (Front tank framework only at this stage). WF_Garratt_242 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Finally, two pictures showing the process of attaching the wrapper to the tank, using the front tank as an example. Again, the frame work is attached to the chassis and carefully positioned. The pre-bent wrapper (annealed at the corners to make it easier to bend) is then clamped into place using the miniature sash clamps. Two solder tacks will then be added at the extreme inner ends of the tank (outer ends of the wrapper) to hold everything together, enabling the tank to be removed from the chassis for subsequent adjustment and soldering. The bowed front of the tank will be pulled flat with clamps and tacked in place once the tank top has been leveled. (The tank front is bowed slightly as the corners are not fully formed to 90 degrees when preforming the wrapper, as seen in the photo). WF_Garratt_244 by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr . by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Once both front tank structures are fully seam soldered up, the details on all four tanks / bunkers will be added (including all the bloody rivets on the front tanks!). The chassis units can then be stripped fro cleaning and painting. Edited July 11, 2018 by PhilMortimer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 Tacked together the front tanks last night. However, may need to take apart and redo, as it has resulted in the top being near flush with the sidesheets on the model, whereas I think in real life it was slightly lower with a lip around the edge. Have some travel coming, so will leave for now and re-assess next week. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 12, 2018 Share Posted July 12, 2018 Phil, They are coming on a treat, I need to get my finger out! Currently obsessed with using my laser which now works, but the Garratt is parked in a cupboard, looking forlorn! Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted July 12, 2018 Author Share Posted July 12, 2018 Thanks! I would like to get these finished, as there are others I would like to get on with. Cheers, P 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted July 19, 2018 Author Share Posted July 19, 2018 Haven't forgotten about this, but a couple of things have gotten in the way. (Canyon developed an abscess in his hoof, which has had to be dressed every night (and he seems to be determined to get his hoof boot / wrappings off after I've done it)) and then the Land Rover developed a fuel line fault rectification of which is still on going (I think air has gotten into the diesel fuel line and it needs bleeding). Plus, I accidentally dropped a washer into the top of the overdrive box whilst inspecting it, which means the box needs to be drained of oil and the washer found before I try moving it (don't want to mangle anything in there). Slightly peeved at myself as I'm usually scrupulously clean when working on engines/ gearboxes. But I digress.....) the front tank assemblies are being built up. Strangely, the rear bunker / tank is considered to be the harder one to build, but I have found it much harder to keep the front ones square. One tank had the wrapper put on twice before I was happy with it and the other has had it put on three times before I was happy with it. The latter is now tacked up and just needs the seams finishing. Then we can add the ancilliary bits. I have also cut down the fixing bolts, as they were ridiculously long and i ended up pushing one of the cylinder valve guides off whilst installing and removing the tank. This obviously then needed re-installing, which wasted more time, but all has now been made good. I keep chugging on...... 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Giles Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 They're a bit of a struggle aren't they ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted July 20, 2018 Author Share Posted July 20, 2018 Yes. Part of the issue is that the brass used is quite soft, so the supporting framework distorts relatively easily. The other issue is getting things located so as to form the lip around the top. I persevere........ P Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Isambarduk Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 Canyon developed an abscess in his hoof, which has had to be dressed every night (and he seems to be determined to get his hoof boot / wrappings off after I've done it) … I do sympathise, Phil; been there quite a few times. At least it's summer when the ground is relatively dry and the days are long and light. In the meantime, 'no hoof, no horse' :-( David Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted July 21, 2018 Share Posted July 21, 2018 You’d have to question the wisdom of evolving to walk on your fingernails... Just back from hols in Japan (Pictures to follow, elsewhere) and retrieved the cat from prison, sorry, the local cattery. He’s presently wandering around his manor yowling somewhat discontentedly. Trust your horse will make a full & speedy recovery Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted July 23, 2018 Author Share Posted July 23, 2018 Thank You both for your sympathy and concerns. Canyon is doing better now, and as David said, it is easier to deal with in the summer when the ground is dry. It happens occaisionally and whilst not particularly difficult to deal with, it is very uncomfortable for the horse until relieved and is time consuming to care for, especially at first when the hoof has to be soaked and the wrappings changed every day. We are now down to just changing the wrappings every other day and I should be able to stop doing it completely in a few days. Which is good, as he is supposed to be on "pet-a-horse" duty (basically consisting of standing around looking cute for visitors to stroke) at our Open Day this weekend. It's a tough job..... However, over the weekend, I did get the tanks all seamed up and square. They are now nice and rigid. I also made up the platform that stands at the rear of the front tank and has the fall plate attached to it that rests on the front of the boiler unit frame. As supplied, the fall plate is part of the platform. As Giles mentioned in his build, this rigidity hinders the relative motion of the front unit to the boiler unit and could lead to problems. It also covers much of the pivot bush, so hindering joining of the two units together. So the fall plate was cut off, some rudimentary supports added to the underside of the fixed platform that will support one end the fall plate, and the fall plate dropped into place on the end of the supports. Some brass pins added to the fall plate pass through holes in the supports and retain it in a similar manner to that used by Giles. Photo's to follow when I take them. The platform now needs attaching to the front frame, hopefully a job for tonight. The manhole inspection covers for the tanks were also embossed and soldered into place. I just need to add the front lamp-iron, tank footstep and tank vents and then these front tanks are done. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted July 26, 2018 Author Share Posted July 26, 2018 (edited) Just a few pictures of progress. . by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Picture of tank assembled and installed on front power unit, with access platform soldered into place on the front unit and the fall plate in situ. . by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Fall plate removed and lying up-ended on the frame, showing mounting pins. These fit into holes in the supports soldered to the underside of the platform. The fall plate just rests on the supports and the other end on the footplate of the boiler unit. . by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Front power unit with tank removed, showing access platform fitted to the footplate. The instructions say that this should be soldered to the tank, but I prefer it fitted to the foot plate. This also helps with thetank positioning when fitting the tank. . by Phil Mortimer, on Flickr Finally, a not very good picture of the rear of the tank. Notice anything? Yep, the vertical lines of holes for the brass rivets are not symmetrical about the centre line. Didn't notice this until the access platform was fitted (and its not very obvious in the photo). These holes were made based upon the half-etchings on the inside of the former, and not my marking out. Not pleased and wish I'd noticed it whilst the frame waas in the flat when i could do something about it more easily. Now to determine what to do about it. Fill one line of holes with solder and drill new ones seems to be the best idea i can come up with. If I leave it, it will just bug me. Finally, realized I'd made a mistake soldering the man-hole access covers to the front tank tops. The tank filler should go here instead. The etched covers were de-soldered and moved to the rear tanks. Occasionally it pays to read the instructions........ Edited July 26, 2018 by PhilMortimer 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted August 1, 2018 Author Share Posted August 1, 2018 Getting back to this, the new holes for the rivets on the inner end of the front tank were marked out and have been drilled. Now to start soldering in all the rivets....... PM Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted August 14, 2018 Author Share Posted August 14, 2018 After a couple of weeks away from them, due to loss of mojo, injury and other more pressing requirements on my time, I've finally gotten back to working on the garratts. Still removing and replacing the wonky rivets on the front tanks. Not exactly inspiring, but needs to be done. One tank almost finished, the other yet to be started. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted August 22, 2018 Author Share Posted August 22, 2018 Finally got all the rivets installed. Due to the overly large impressions, embossing them gave a wonky rivet line. Eventually, I drilled them all out and install individual rivets made from 0.8mm Brass wire, snipped off and filed down to size. There are hundreds of the ruddy things and it took forever. It is now done and i can give my eye sight a break. That will teach me to boast that this part was almost done. But the rivets are now in a straight line....... 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilMortimer Posted September 4, 2018 Author Share Posted September 4, 2018 (edited) Thought I'd finished the front tanks last night. Sat back feeling good and looked at a picture of the real thing. I'd put the sandbox fillers on 90 degrees out! Said a few rude words and then set to to rectify. These are hateful little things that are difficult to align properly and were a pain the first time I did it. Got there in the end for the first tank and will do the second one tonight. Grrr!! This loco is driving me insane! Edited September 4, 2018 by PhilMortimer Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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