Nearholmer Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Yes, details of the space would help a lot. I'm itching to devise something based on the line from Wendover to Halton Camp! Edit: we crossed in the ether. I have an idea based around the Wendover end, which might work in the space you seem to have, judging by your first plan. K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halton Boy Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Thank you Rich and Simon for all your helpful advice. I appreciate the effort you have made for me. As I said above I will build the Halton light railway when I stop moving house. So until then I just need a simple layout as I am keen to do some railway modeling. Simon's Greater Windowledge railway looks really good but is more involved than I want to build. If the the scenic part of the layout is twelve foot long by two foot wide would it be difficult to operate with a fiddle yard at each end? Its just that I have read lots of comments saying that through running gives more options. My priorities are now: Light railway, Open country side with a small bridge over water, Run around loop, No more than four points, Cassette fiddle yard(s), Tank engines, Six wheel coaches with vans in tow. At least everyone has helped me focus on what I want to build. Its so easy in Anyrail to keep adding track and points. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold MarshLane Posted June 8, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted June 8, 2016 Hi Ken, Your welcome - have a look at Calcott from Chris Nevard, thats simpler than what your looking to do, but could give you a basis for what your hoping to achieve, or at least some thoughts and ideas. Good luck!! Rich Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Ken What about the section of track between the goods yard at Wendover, and the first LC, which was effectively a passing or runaround loop on a curve? If you added a small LR wooden-platform-and-hut station, with a cinder path to the road by the LC, it would make a plausible model, with the gate across the track leading into the yard as view-stop at one end, and the LC as view-stop at the other. Sketch below should give you the idea, but really need to work out how that accommodation road fitted into things too. I can't find a larger scale map of the area. You could always "demolish" the platform later, and incorporate the rest into the final grand plan. If you think that is too simple for a LR terminus, I would cite Canterbury Road on the EKLR, and Tollesbury Pier, both of which consisted of next door to nothing, in the middle of nowhere! Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halton Boy Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Yes, details of the space would help a lot. I'm itching to devise something based on the line from Wendover to Halton Camp! Edit: we crossed in the ether. I have an idea based around the Wendover end, which might work in the space you seem to have, judging by your first plan. K Hello Kevin I did an earlier thread about the Halton light railway. It may still be on RMWeb somewhere? I will be building the line from just before the level crossing on the Aylesbury road to Chestnut avenue. The line also went to Tring road but I will not have space for that. Tring road had an engine shed, coal yard and private builders yard. Wendover station yard was quite big as I remember it. The diagram does not show all the sidings. If you want any details of Wendover I am happy to help. I look forward to seeing your plan. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halton Boy Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Hi Ken, Your welcome - have a look at Calcott from Chris Nevard, thats simpler than what your looking to do, but could give you a basis for what your hoping to achieve, or at least some thoughts and ideas. Good luck!! Rich Hello Rich Yes that is ideal. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted June 8, 2016 Share Posted June 8, 2016 Ken Well, the plan I had in mind at first isn't what I've proposed above ....... But, what I've proposed does have a fair few similarities to Catcott Burtle! I have, ages ago, seen a small book by a local guy about the Halton Railway, but there is a great deal about the line that I don't know, so would be interested to learn more. I got interested in the line after stumbling about in the dark round the camp,canal and woods while learning how to lead a search exercise in "thick" countryside as part of a course I was on. Kevin PS: found what I think might be your other thread, and you were asking about a loco for the Halton narrow gauge line. It had a Kerr Stuart "Wren" I think, and later a Ruston diesel. There certainly was a kit around for the "Wren" in On14, although it seems not to be available currently ( http://www.kbscale.com/locomotives.html ), and one can get a 48hp Ruston in 0n16.5, but the Halton one might have been a smaller loco, perhaps c28hp. If you are deeply into the narrow gauge part, I can probably delve the details out for you. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halton Boy Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Ken What about the section of track between the goods yard at Wendover, and the first LC, which was effectively a passing or runaround loop on a curve? If you added a small LR wooden-platform-and-hut station, with a cinder path to the road by the LC, it would make a plausible model, with the gate across the track leading into the yard as view-stop at one end, and the LC as view-stop at the other. You could always "demolish" the platform later, and incorporate the rest into the final grand plan. If you think that is too simple for a LR terminus, I would cite Canterbury Road on the EKLR, and Tollesbury Pier, both of which consisted of next door to nothing, in the middle of nowhere! Kevin Hello Kevin We have crossed over again. The main layout will run from just before the level crossing. So I could build the section between the gates as a stand alone layout. I have added a transfer siding. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halton Boy Posted June 8, 2016 Author Share Posted June 8, 2016 Ken Well, the plan I had in mind at first isn't what I've proposed above ....... But, what I've proposed does have a fair few similarities to Catcott Burtle! I have, ages ago, seen a small book by a local guy about the Halton Railway, but there is a great deal about the line that I don't know, so would be interested to learn more. I got interested in the line after stumbling about in the dark round the camp,canal and woods while learning how to lead a search exercise in "thick" countryside as part of a course I was on. Kevin PS: found what I think might be your other thread, and you were asking about a loco for the Halton narrow gauge line. It had a Kerr Stuart "Wren" I think, and later a Ruston diesel. There certainly was a kit around for the "Wren" in On14, although it seems not to be available currently ( http://www.kbscale.com/locomotives.html ), and one can get a 48hp Ruston in 0n16.5, but the Halton one might have been a smaller loco, perhaps c28hp. If you are deeply into the narrow gauge part, I can probably delve the details out for you. Hi Kevin That book and all the parts for that railway are still in storage from my last move. There is also a video done by the same chap. A copy of the video is available from the RAF Halton camp museum. Mine is packed away with the other stuff along with another book which details the line; A History of the Metropolitan Railway volume 2 "Rickmansworth to Aylesbury including the Halton camp line" by Bill Simpson. The books have the most detail. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halton Boy Posted June 9, 2016 Author Share Posted June 9, 2016 Hello every one I have taken all your ideas into account and realized that what I want is a simple layout. I used to walk along this track as a small boy. The part between the crossing gates and the gate into Wendover yard was grass with a hedge on each side. By the hedge on one side was a ditch. The track was standard gauge and there was a up hill gradient from Wendover yard to the Aylesbury road crossing gates. This meant that a very small engine could not be used. There was a siding further up the track, but I have added it to this point on the line. Final plan: Operation The railway company engine brings the vans and wagons from Wendover yard (A) into the loop after leaving the brake van opposite point ( C ) on the main line. The engine runs forward and collects the vans and wagons, left by the RAF engine, from siding (B) and pushes them down the main line to the brake van. The railway company engine then goes back to Wendover yard (A) with the empty vans and wagons. The RAF engine, which could be waiting at point ( C ), takes the full wagons over the Aylesbury road crossing(D). The RAF engine would sometimes take wagons, or a horse box from the RAF riding school, into Wendover yard where the RAF had their own short siding. The RAF engine would also collect vans and wagons from Wendover yard and split them up leaving some bound for Tring road in siding (B) whilst taking the ones for Chestnut Avenue away past point (D). The RAF engine would then come back and take away the Tring road vans and wagons over the Aylesbury road crossing(D). The railway company engine will never take freight on past point (D) as it would be to heavy for the track. (A) and (D) are cassette fiddle yards. The real railway operation was somewhat different to this, but less interesting. The scenic section is four boards 1200 x 500mm. One narrow board each end for the cassette fiddle yards. Thank you every one for all your help. Its time to buy some wood. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 looks good, I hope it works as you envisage - it's simple yet offers decent running potential will be following and watching with interest best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted June 9, 2016 Share Posted June 9, 2016 Yes, I like it too. With careful scenic treatment, I reckon it could turn out to be a very satisfying layout. You could really go to town on the foliage, grass etc. Per ardua ad Amersham! K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPPledge Posted June 10, 2016 Share Posted June 10, 2016 Hi all, There is a 7mm narrow gauge Wren currently available from Locos n Stuff. Scroll to the bottom of this page: http://www.locosnstuff.co.uk/loco-kits I actually live in Wendover at the moment so if you need any photos taking just pm me. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Cheers, Jonathan P. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halton Boy Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 looks good, I hope it works as you envisage - it's simple yet offers decent running potential will be following and watching with interest best Simon Thank you Simon It will be a chance for me to learn layout building without spending too much. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halton Boy Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 Yes, I like it too. With careful scenic treatment, I reckon it could turn out to be a very satisfying layout. You could really go to town on the foliage, grass etc. Per ardua ad Amersham! K Thank you Kevin The danger is that I go over board and try to add too much like line side huts etc. As you say if I try and keep it simple but to a high standard I would be happy. The storm drain was further up the line near the Union canal but the ditch did exist. It will be a puzzle for me to cut out the drain without making the boards weak. I am thinking of raising the sides of the boards and the track like this: All the board parts would be plywood, with the track bed made of something else. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halton Boy Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 Hi all, There is a 7mm narrow gauge Wren currently available from Locos n Stuff. Scroll to the bottom of this page: http://www.locosnstuff.co.uk/loco-kits I actually live in Wendover at the moment so if you need any photos taking just pm me. Looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Cheers, Jonathan P. Thank you Jonathan I will take you up on your kind offer when I get back from hospital. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I've used that "guitar belly" baseboard construction, with ply top, bottom and sides, before, and it is exceedingly good; very rigid, and with thin ply, pretty light, especially if you cut great big holes in the bottom after construction. My gut feeling is that, if the drainage ditch needed to be deeper, you could create the channel, down into the structure, and it wouldn't significantly weaken a well pinned and glued baseboard. It's not as if you intend to stand an elephant on it ........ Do you?? K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halton Boy Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 I've used that "guitar belly" baseboard construction, with ply top, bottom and sides, before, and it is exceedingly good; very rigid, and with thin ply, pretty light, especially if you cut great big holes in the bottom after construction. My gut feeling is that, if the drainage ditch needed to be deeper, you could create the channel, down into the structure, and it wouldn't significantly weaken a well pinned and glued baseboard. It's not as if you intend to stand an elephant on it ........ Do you?? K No elephants Kevin, but some horse boxes. Revised drawing. But what to make the track bed from? Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 I was thinking more along the lines below, with the track-bed (6mm birch ply) acting as a 'spine', and the rest of the surface being 'scenery' and no baseboard, except perhaps for the surface of the water in the ditch. If you followed your idea, you could use Sundeala as a track-bed, but my gut feel is that is could lead to a "deep ballasted" appearance, more consistent with a main-line. (Please excuse the fact that I seem to have made the track 2'6" gauge, and the loco to match!) K Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 I quite like the sundeala track bed idea, although it may look a bit mainline unless you're careful with the ballast shoulders. the baseboards of the Greater Windowledge were knocked together using hot glue and very cheap & nasty 4mm ply that I happened to have - it far exceeded its design lifetime including three years in a container whilst we were abroad, and subsequent reerection and a further 6 years of life. I'd be wary of the "spine" approach, as you may find it is prone to twist unless fitted with rather more legs than might otherwise be necessary - or you make the spine into a box girder, but this is likely to be lots of work Hth Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Simon I'm confident that a spine, as I've shown, won't twist, because the bottom skin, and the sides, provide the rigidity ......... I'm a great fan of top-and-bottom-skinned baseboards for that very reason. If you think about it, a double-skinned board is really exactly like a panel door, and even cheap panel doors, made from horrible plywood and cardboard "egg box" fillers, don't twist. Ikea make table-tops in exactly the same way, using really rubbishy materials, and they are extremely stable, even under heavy load (I used one as a workbench for several years). Another analogy with what I've sketched is a drawer, and a well-made drawer,musing decent 6mm ply, will be very twist-resistant, even if you cut a lot of holes in the bottom of it. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simond Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 Kevin To some extent I agree but iyour proposal is an open section - by comparison cheap doors and Ikea desks are closed sections A closed tube (of any cross section) is very stable against twist, open sections (think of a shoe box) much less so And if you want a simple experiment to demonstrate it, try cutting along one side of drinking straw - not to the ends - and compare its torsional stiffness with an uncut one You can counter the tendency to twist and sag, as I did on the GW, by using diagonal bracing, which is not as good, but does improve matters significantly, as will transverse frames - but "closing the box", making a box girder, is the best way. I think the original suggestion was to do exactly that, and then cut access holes in the bottom - provided the holes are not too near the edges, this will be strong and stiff Best Simon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nearholmer Posted June 14, 2016 Share Posted June 14, 2016 You are absolutely right Simon, not having a continuous top skin will decrease its twist-resistance, I do get that. What I am saying is that I don't believe it will decrease it significantly, given the loadings. There is almost certainly a lot of maths that could be used to calculate the loss of stiffness, or we could saw up lots of plywood and conduct tests, which sounds more fun. But, I'm going to propose that we do neither, and leave the OP to decide. Kevin Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halton Boy Posted June 15, 2016 Author Share Posted June 15, 2016 Hello everyone I think I will build a small replica in stiff card board or thin ply wood to test out the various methods. Mr Laurence Bindley has sent me plans of the railway which he photographed at the National Archives. I tried to load them but could not make the files small enough, so here is a plan based on one of the photographs: The occupation road is what we called Dobbings Lane. The plan has also changed. This has reduced the number of points to three and made the loops bigger: Also the storm drain is on one side of the board only and starts from under the edge of the track bed. I am sure I am happy with this plan. The line carried the following items to two sites. Tring Road yard, Coal, Builders merchants materials and Diesel fuel for the DM shunter. Chestnut Avenue, Stores. Engineering equipment, Water treatment chemicals, Coal or Coke, Bakery materials. There was a officers riding stables near Chestnut Avenue, but I am not sure where the horse box would be unloaded. So the plan is an exchange sidings setup with a nice lot of freight. The main line engine brings in the freight and departs with the empties. The Halton DM shunter sorts the freight and takes the first lot to Tring Road and the next lot to Chestnut Avenue. The DM shunter takes the horse box straight into Wendover station yard. Ken Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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