GordonC Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 In the recent Model Rail magazine there was a picture of TTA tank wagons getting hump shunted. Did that take place often? I had thought air-braked wagons would have been fail safe in that if the air supply was disconnected, i.e. a loco, then the brakes would have come on. Could the air brakes be disabled easily enough? Also would there have been restrictions on whether tank wagons could have been hump shunted full or empty? From the often flammable contents of those tanks I'm surprised any rough shunting would have been allowed! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 There is a cord that can be pulled which isolates the brakes to stop them applying automatically; I have seen French shunters do this 'on the fly' when wagons started to slow too much after the hump at Lille Deliverance- it looked like a dangerous version of a game on 'It's a Knockout'. Certain wagons had lettering indicating that they were not to be hump or loose (fly) shunted, for various reasons; I should imagine similar prohibitions applied to certain loads as well. DB still hump-shunt a lot of traffic on their home network- it makes sense to do so if the traffic density is great enough. I think SNCF may still hump traffic at Grande Synthe; if so, this is probably the nearest place to the UK where you can see it being carried out. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
black and decker boy Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 EWS were still fly shunting at Warrington long after the end of vac brakes. Gravity / inertia and wagons already in the sidings were used as retarders!!! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Not hump shunting but fly shunting at tinsley in the 90's Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stadman Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Easy to drain the airs (RIC DIC Pull Kick, railwaymen will understand) However loose/ fly or hump shunting tanks the have contained hazardous goods ! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted May 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2016 Most if not all of the big hump yards survived into the air brake era. Sometimes wagons with shouldn't really of been hump shunted still went over the hump! The main sorting sidings in a hump yard are probably one of the most dangerous places ever to have existed on the railway. I worked on the down hump at Tees as a YTS placement! You really had to keep a lookout when coupling and piping wagons in that part of the yard. Can't imagine modern managers been keen on sending a 16 year old into there now . Great fun though I loved it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted May 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2016 Not hump shunting but fly shunting at tinsley in the 90's http://youtu.be/mwJvFfZaQ7k Brian Excellent that, thanks for posting. I would force any modern railway manager to watch that. The job being done in a efficient safe way, no one gets hurt everybody knows what they are doing. The real railway being run by real railwaymen! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Can't remember where I read it but I'm sure they said ,it's the only way they could have shunted the wagons in the time frame they had Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Just looked in the comments on the YouTube clip And found this " Anyway, great video and brings back many memories. I working in Tinsley Yard at this time and can name the shuting lads shown. If we didn't loose shunt the Speedlink trains would never have got done. Begs the question: Where as it all gone? I still work for the railway (Controller with GBRf) but it ain't like it use to be. " Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold russ p Posted May 23, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 23, 2016 We must know each other, Phil (who you work with) remembered me upsetting that bloke who worked in Blackpool tower! I was a Tees man as you lot referred to Thornaby drivers back then. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
101 Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Not hump shunting but fly shunting at tinsley in the 90's Brian No not fly shunting that's loose shunting - there seems to be a regular misconception of the difference between loose and fly shunting. If the loco is pushing/propelling the (uncoupled) vehicles into a siding that's loose shunting. Fly shunting is when the the loco is pulling the vehicles towards a siding, the shunter then uncouples whilst moving, the loco then accelerates into a siding and the shunter then pulls a point behind the loco to allow the vehicles to run into a different siding. Fly shunting was tricky and quite dangerous and was banned some time ago (80's possibly?). The only time I tried it as a driver the wagon didn't have enough momentum and stopped over the point blocking the loco in! Luckily it was only one wagon and there was enough of us to push it in by hand or it would have been embarrassing Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest bri.s Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 No not fly shunting that's loose shunting - there seems to be a regular misconception of the difference between loose and fly shunting. If the loco is pushing/propelling the (uncoupled) vehicles into a siding that's loose shunting. Fly shunting is when the the loco is pulling the vehicles towards a siding, the shunter then uncouples whilst moving, the loco then accelerates into a siding and the shunter then pulls a point behind the loco to allow the vehicles to run into a different siding. Fly shunting was tricky and quite dangerous and was banned some time ago (80's possibly?). The only time I tried it as a driver the wagon didn't have enough momentum and stopped over the point blocking the loco in! Luckily it was only one wagon and there was enough of us to push it in by hand or it would have been embarrassing Thanks, I'd not realised ,it certainly sounds more interesting type of shunting ,I bet it was an oh crap kind of moment lol Brian Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rivercider Posted May 23, 2016 Share Posted May 23, 2016 Most if not all of the big hump yards survived into the air brake era. Sometimes wagons with shouldn't really of been hump shunted still went over the hump! There were different Special Handling Codes used in the TOPS system that would indicate restrictions for loose and/or hump shunting. A code letter would be input against a particular wagon depending on its load which would then show a restriction on any shunt or train list. My 1978 Code Guide includes the following:- Input code D - Dangerous do not loose shunt - Output code on shunt list was DAN Input code H - Prohibited over certain humps (see regional booklet) - Output on shunt list was HRF Input code J - Controlled Dangerous Movement Not to be Hump Shunted - Output on shunt list was DCM Input code N - Not to be hump shunted - Output on shunt list was DNH Examples of a shunt list and train list with Special Handling Codes appear on pages 101 and 102 in the book Rail Freight Today by C Anthony and B Rogers (OPC) edit - and for certain wagons and vehicles like ballast cleaners the I think the restriction on TOPS lists permanently applied to the vehicle and was not dependant on its load, cheers Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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