ESU Loksound 4.0 function variables

[skip37216]

Is it possible to adjust an ESU Loksound (4.0) to

A) Make a function switch on only in one direction like in F0?

B) Make a function switch on when stationary and off when moving?

 

Any suggestions appreciated please.

 

Norman

[tractor_37260]

Is it possible to adjust an ESU Loksound (4.0) to

A) Make a function switch on only in one direction like in F0?

B) Make a function switch on when stationary and off when moving?

 

Any suggestions appreciated please.

 

Norman

 

Yes the Loksound  4.0 has many variables.  The function mapping required to achieve changes is a bit complicated, but an ESU Lokprogrammer makes it fairly easy.

Normally F0 controls the front/rear lights directionally, but you can also change the settings to make the tail lights independently switchable via a separate F key, provided you alter the original wiring circuits, yet still retain full directional lighting also.

 

You can for instance, make the function that controls the cab lights ?, both directional, and also auto switch off when the loco moves off, and come back on again once jt stops.

 

HTH

Ken

Edited May 26, 2016 by tractor_37260

[skip37216]

Yes the Loksound  4.0 has many variables.  The function mapping required to achieve changes is a bit complicated, but an ESU Lokprogrammer makes it fairly easy.

Normally F0 controls the front/rear lights directionally, but you can also change the settings to make the tail lights independently switchable via a separate F key, provided you alter the original wiring circuits, yet still retain full directional lighting also.

 

You can for instance, make the function that controls the cab lights ?, both directional, and also auto switch off when the loco moves off, and come back on again once jt stops.

 

HTH

Ken

Hi Ken

OK so it is possible.

I am using DecoderPro but that does not help.

I have set Aux 1 and 2 to operate as headlights or so I thought but to no avail.

I do somewhere have an early ESU programmer but I'm pretty sure its out of date.

It should be possible via setting CVs directly.

Regards

Norman

[Nigelcliffe]

Hi Ken

OK so it is possible.

I am using DecoderPro but that does not help.

I have set Aux 1 and 2 to operate as headlights or so I thought but to no avail.

I do somewhere have an early ESU programmer but I'm pretty sure its out of date.

It should be possible via setting CVs directly.

Regards

Norman

Current DecoderPro versions have the full function mapping which is available in a LokProgrammer. Laid out in near enough the same way.

 

So, if you want to make settings, you can make them with DecoderPro. In a given row, you define which outputs are used, and which buttons (and direction / movement) are required.

 

Yes, it can be done with individual CV settings.  It is incredibly tedious and complicated, but possible. 

- Nigel

[tractor_37260]

Hi Ken

OK so it is possible.

I am using DecoderPro but that does not help.

I have set Aux 1 and 2 to operate as headlights or so I thought but to no avail.

I do somewhere have an early ESU programmer but I'm pretty sure its out of date.

It should be possible via setting CVs directly.

Regards

Norman

 

HI Norman

                 I'm not familiar with decoder pro - but I'm sure there are others on here that could help you with that

 

To enable Aux 1 & 2 to operate headlights only, if using a standard factory model, changes would be required to the model wiring, as well as CV changes.

 

AFAIK all Lokprogrammer's can be updated, but for use with modern PC's a later style USB connection (FTDI chip) cable would be required

I'd suggest you speak to Steve or Caroline at South West Digital they are very helpful.

 

http://www.southwestdigital.co.uk/

 

-Ken

[skip37216]

Current DecoderPro versions have the full function mapping which is available in a LokProgrammer. Laid out in near enough the same way.

 

So, if you want to make settings, you can make them with DecoderPro. In a given row, you define which outputs are used, and which buttons (and direction / movement) are required.

 

Yes, it can be done with individual CV settings.  It is incredibly tedious and complicated, but possible. 

- Nigel

Hi Nigel

Yes the layout of Decoderpro is claimed to be similar to the Lokprogrammer but it is not as comprehensive. For instance ESU treats each function as two in that one is forward and the other in reverse but not in decoderpro.

 

Norman

[skip37216]

HI Norman

                 I'm not familiar with decoder pro - but I'm sure there are others on here that could help you with that

 

To enable Aux 1 & 2 to operate headlights only, if using a standard factory model, changes would be required to the model wiring, as well as CV changes.

 

AFAIK all Lokprogrammer's can be updated, but for use with modern PC's a later style USB connection (FTDI chip) cable would be required

I'd suggest you speak to Steve or Caroline at South West Digital they are very helpful.

 

http://www.southwestdigital.co.uk/

 

-Ken

Hi Ken

I am trying to use Aux1 and Aux2 to control my rear lights - easy enough but not if you want each rear light to only operate in one direction.  This is fairly simple with Zimo.  In that way only one function key operates both rear lights and the directional control is automatic.

I also want Aux3 & 4 to operate the cab lights but I want the lights to extinguish automatically when the loco moves.  I can't see how to do this with ESU but easy enough with Zimo.

 

regards

Norman

[Nigelcliffe]

Hi Nigel

Yes the layout of Decoderpro is claimed to be similar to the Lokprogrammer but it is not as comprehensive. For instance ESU treats each function as two in that one is forward and the other in reverse but not in decoderpro.

 

Norman

 

Hi Norman,

 

I think you are wrong. Both do the same thing in this area.

 

If you can show an example where DecoderPro doesn't behave correctly, please send me the details and I'll get it fixed. This stuff is just CV reading/writing, but its an awfully large number of CV's involved.

 

 

Hi Ken

I am trying to use Aux1 and Aux2 to control my rear lights - easy enough but not if you want each rear light to only operate in one direction.  This is fairly simple with Zimo.  In that way only one function key operates both rear lights and the directional control is automatic.

I also want Aux3 & 4 to operate the cab lights but I want the lights to extinguish automatically when the loco moves.  I can't see how to do this with ESU but easy enough with Zimo.

 

regards

Norman

 

LokProgrammer/DecoderPro instructions:

 

In an ESU decoder, functions (sound, lights, loco behaviours) are controlled by a large table with 40 mapping lines. Any line can control anything, and function keys, outputs, sounds and behaviours can appear on multiple lines.  This is really important, it is very different to the way functions are setup in other maker's decoders.

 

So, if you have output AUX3, then the first thing to check is whether any of the existing lines are controlling AUX3. Any existing mapping lines will remain active regardless of what you do; so if you have left an old mapping line where FnKey7 turns on AUX3, then that line has no direction limitations and will apply even if another line has direction limitations (and the light on AUX3 will appear to not have direction control).   This is checked by reading in all the existing CV's for the 40 mapping lines.  

 

The first image is a cut-up screen shot from DecoderPro function mapping.  In this, I've taken two rows and used them such that F7 in Forward operates AUX3, and F7 in Reverse operates AUX4

 

 

The second image is a crop from a screen shot of the LokProgrammer function mapping, set to the same thing.   Note that the default display in the LokProgrammer software implies each Line is F1 to F20(something), but the user is free to change any Line to do anything they like.

 

 

 

If you want things to only operate when stationary (eg. cab lights) then that is within the option marked "motion" (LokProgrammer) or "driving" (DecoderPro).  It can be combined with direction of travel.  

Delay time in the light coming on (or going off) is set elsewhere, as a CV associated with the output (Aux3, etc..).

 

 

 

As I said, if there is a function allocation issue where DecoderPro doesn't do something which the LokProgrammer software offers, then please provide details and I'll get it to the attention of the DecoderPro developer.  This function stuff is only complicated CV changes.  

 

 

- Nigel

[skip37216]

 

Hi Norman,

 

I think you are wrong. Both do the same thing in this area.

 

If you can show an example where DecoderPro doesn't behave correctly, please send me the details and I'll get it fixed. This stuff is just CV reading/writing, but its an awfully large number of CV's involved.

 

 

 

LokProgrammer/DecoderPro instructions:

 

In an ESU decoder, functions (sound, lights, loco behaviours) are controlled by a large table with 40 mapping lines. Any line can control anything, and function keys, outputs, sounds and behaviours can appear on multiple lines.  This is really important, it is very different to the way functions are setup in other maker's decoders.

 

So, if you have output AUX3, then the first thing to check is whether any of the existing lines are controlling AUX3. Any existing mapping lines will remain active regardless of what you do; so if you have left an old mapping line where FnKey7 turns on AUX3, then that line has no direction limitations and will apply even if another line has direction limitations (and the light on AUX3 will appear to not have direction control).   This is checked by reading in all the existing CV's for the 40 mapping lines.  

 

The first image is a cut-up screen shot from DecoderPro function mapping.  In this, I've taken two rows and used them such that F7 in Forward operates AUX3, and F7 in Reverse operates AUX4

 

DecoderPro LokSound.png

 

The second image is a crop from a screen shot of the LokProgrammer function mapping, set to the same thing.   Note that the default display in the LokProgrammer software implies each Line is F1 to F20(something), but the user is free to change any Line to do anything they like.

 

LokProgrammer Loksound functions.png

 

 

If you want things to only operate when stationary (eg. cab lights) then that is within the option marked "motion" (LokProgrammer) or "driving" (DecoderPro).  It can be combined with direction of travel.  

Delay time in the light coming on (or going off) is set elsewhere, as a CV associated with the output (Aux3, etc..).

 

 

 

As I said, if there is a function allocation issue where DecoderPro doesn't do something which the LokProgrammer software offers, then please provide details and I'll get it to the attention of the DecoderPro developer.  This function stuff is only complicated CV changes.  

 

 

- Nigel

Hi Nigel

Thanks for your advice and help and I believe I understand now.

I'll have another go.

regards

Norman

[skip37216]

Hi Nigel

Success - thank you for your advice.

 

regards

Norman 

[tractor_37260]

Hi Nigel

Success - thank you for your advice.

 

regards

Norman 

 

 

Hi Ken

I am trying to use Aux1 and Aux2 to control my rear lights - easy enough but not if you want each rear light to only operate in one direction.  This is fairly simple with Zimo.  In that way only one function key operates both rear lights and the directional control is automatic.

I also want Aux3 & 4 to operate the cab lights but I want the lights to extinguish automatically when the loco moves.  I can't see how to do this with ESU but easy enough with Zimo.

 

regards

Norman

 

Hi Norman

 

Pleased to read you managed to get a result, but I'm a bit puzzled also. The standard Loksound 4.0 decoder has only 4 powered function outputs: F0f  / F0r  / Aux 1  / Aux 2.

 

Aux 3 & 4 are low powered logic level only, and unable to drive lighting circuits directly.  An ESU 51968 adaptor board could be used with a Loksound 4 - this will convert Aux 3 & 4 to full powered outputs, which can then be used for Cab lights etc

 

With the Lok 4 to enable Aux 1 & 2 to control the tail lights, the standard wiring will require altering, along with some CV changes, then you can have one F key controlling both end tail lights directionally + independently on or off.

 

Regards

Ken

Edited May 27, 2016 by tractor_37260

[skip37216]

Hi Ken

Loksound 4.0 XL has 12 function outlets and following Nigel's advice I have managed to program the independant rear lights and cab lights on my new Warship exactly as I wanted rather than as Heljan delivered.

regards

Norman

[tractor_37260]

Hi Ken

Loksound 4.0 XL has 12 function outlets and following Nigel's advice I have managed to program the independant rear lights and cab lights on my new Warship exactly as I wanted rather than as Heljan delivered.

regards

Norman

 

No mention of "XL" in the thread title or posts ? that is until now.......but you got a result regardless.....

[cravensdmufan]

Hi folks,

 

I hope I'm on the right thread here - I'd like some help with an ESU Loksound v4 please which I purchased secondhand recently, and fitted into a Bachmann class 105 - one of the early models with an 8 pin decoder socket.

 

According to the Bachmann paperwork interior lights will work on F1 and side lights on F0.

 

Mine don't, but work when side lights  (F0) are turned on.

 

It also says that if the decoder (8 pin) is fitted the wrong way round they will not work.

 

I've checked the fitting of the decoder and it is the correct way round but would like the option of turning the interior lights on and off.

 

Does anyone know which AUX the interior lights work on as at the moment they are working on F0?

 

I'm assuming that probably the interior and side lights are on the same circuit and cannot be worked separate unless someone knows different.

 

Thanks very much in advance!

Edited May 30, 2018 by cravensdmufan

[STEVEHEAT]

hope this is in the right area.

Have recently purchased a Dapol Class26 with a sound decoder from howes. the cabin lights are on Aux1 and 2 which is F17 AND 18, These work fine as I understand in most controllers and can confirm the cabin lights turn on and off using railmaster. I am now using Itrain and unfortunately it does not work the same, It is odd and I think function 11 may be stopping any function button from 12 upwards. Is there a way to change this at all using cv values.

 

As you can tell I am not that clued up on this but any advise would be welcome

 

I can confirm Itrain works fine on using a non howes decoder and cabin lights work fine  so I don't think its all itrains fault

 

I don't mind if the cabin lights are on all the time that would be better than none at all

Edited August 23, 2018 by STEVEHEAT

[Nigelcliffe]

Yes you can move them by CV changes, but it can be complicated - the ESU V4 sound decoders have a very powerful, but also very complicated way of controlling function allocations.

 

You need some information about the loco before starting.   

The simplest is to ask Howes for the CV mapping data for your loco, then you have the starting place, or tell Howes which keys you'd like to control what, and ask for a list of CV changes to achieve that. 

There are some assumptions one could make, and then target certain CVs, but it can be hit and miss to find which ones control these lights.  

Finally, there is "read it all in", which, if you are to retain your sanity, needs a computer connected to your DCC programming track setup.  That could be via a computer interface to your DCC system and then use JMRI/DecoderPro, or it could be an ESU LokProgrammer (quite expensive for just this operation).   One of those will allow you to read all 640 CVs which make up the function mapping, and then you have a full picture of what controls what. 

 

Once you know the starting place, making changes is possible, any feature (or combination of features) can be placed on any key, in any direction of travel.  Doing the settings is a lot easier with JMRI connected to your DCC system (or an ESU LokProgrammer). 

[STEVEHEAT]

thank you for your reply

 

I am using Itrain Pro and it looks like it could read up to 1024 cvs. If that is the case would I be able to use this.

I will ask Howes but the person who fitted the decoder was not very impressed with their technical help to put it mildly.

If I cant get the advise in which to change cvs can I go down the hit and miss route with trying to change F17 AND F18 for F6 and F7

[Nigelcliffe]

thank you for your reply

 

I am using Itrain Pro and it looks like it could read up to 1024 cvs. If that is the case would I be able to use this.

I will ask Howes but the person who fitted the decoder was not very impressed with their technical help to put it mildly.

If I cant get the advise in which to change cvs can I go down the hit and miss route with trying to change F17 AND F18 for F6 and F7

 

I'd still ask Howes. 

 

 

But in the absence of an answer, given you've got a computer hooked up to your system, please make things simpler and install JMRI/DecoderPro for this job.  

The software presents a nice table of function keys, what is controlled by each, etc.. etc..   It will take it a while to read all the CVs to do this, quite possibly over half an hour, but once read you know the starting place.

 

You can do it manually, or you can use a tool which does it all for you. 

 

 

If doing it manually, then you need the LokSound manual, from the ESU website.  And some paper to key a close record of everything you do.

Page52 has a very large table which is the key to finding the CVs, note the column which indicates the CV32 value, and for all this to work, you also have to set CV31=16

Jumping ahead to page 58, and that suggests you might want lines 23 and 24 for functions F17 and F18  (this is the guesswork bit - assume that the manual and the decoder you have actually match up, and that the sound development process didn't change from the document defaults).

Now page 53, which says F17 key is in Control E with an "on" value of 64, and F18 is in Control F with a value of 1.

Back to Page 52, to work out which CV to read to confirm that Control Block E is used in line 23...  reading across and we have CV32=3, CV357.   Write the values CV31=16 and CV32=3, then read CV357.  If it is "64" let out a cheer, things will probably work, if it doesn't then the guesswork didn't work out, and you've got nowhere.  If it did work out, write a value of zero to CV357.

 

Look at page 53 again, and F6(on) is in Control C with a value of 1.    Back on Page 52, line 23,  and Control C is CV32=3, CV355.   (As CV31 and 32 are already set, don't need to do it again), read back CV355, hopefully its zero.  Now write a value of 1 to that CV.    And test the loco on the track, ideally F6 now works that feature.

 

Repeat similar process for F18/F7.     When finished, write CV31 and CV32 to zero.  

[STEVEHEAT]

Wow Big cheers.

Took a chance and followed your instructions using itrain ( the only thing it didn't seem to be able to do was read cv357 so I assumed it was ok and carried on) and hey presto F6 and F7 now work my cabin lights. I would like to thank you on your clear instructions especially to someone who isn't familiar with any of this. May have ago at making them come on directionally (I assume that is possible)

 

thanks again

 

Steve 

[Nigelcliffe]

I'm pleased, if a little surprised (I'd expected a "too hard"), that you got this far.   The next step to "directional" isn't a big addition to what's been done so far.  

 

For directional,  taking Line 23 as the starting place (F6 key), and look at Page53, that has "direction" in Control A, with a value of 4 (forwards) or 8 (reverse).  So, back to page 52, look across line 23 for Control A, and there is CV32=3, CV353. 

So, programming write CV31=16, CV32=3, and read CV353.  Should be zero.  Now write CV353 = 4 (forwards, or 8 if wanting reverse).   

If you wanted direction AND stationary, both are in Control A, so add the features together.  "stopped" has value 2, "forwards" has value 4, add together and the value is 6.

 

Line 24 for F7 would be similar,  and remember to write CV31 and 32 to zero when finished. 

 

 

Or, if you just wanted the whole lot to be directional on F6, you could modify line 24 so that it used the F6 key rather than F7 (undo-ing some of the previous settings in the earlier posting), and set the direction as required.  

 

The LokSound V4 decoder is extremely flexible in what it can do - you can write complex conditional stuff if that's needed.  Ultra-flashness can be had by using two brightness levels for each output, and changing them as needed. The decoder has Aux1(1) and Aux1(2)  (and the same for Aux2), where each output can have two different brightnesses (or other flashing behaviours).  So, bright light when stationary, dim when moving. 

 

The difficulty from where you stand is knowing the starting position, which is why I favoured reading everything in, using a software package for the hundreds of CVs involved, and then you know the current settings. 

 

You are allowed the same key on as many lines as you need, though it is possible to tie things in knots if you don't keep decent records. 

 

 

- Nigel

[STEVEHEAT]

Thanks again for your help, how do you know all this is it all self taught?

[beejack]

Hi folks,

 

I hope I'm on the right thread here - I'd like some help with an ESU Loksound v4 please which I purchased secondhand recently, and fitted into a Bachmann class 105 - one of the early models with an 8 pin decoder socket.

 

According to the Bachmann paperwork interior lights will work on F1 and side lights on F0.

 

Mine don't, but work when side lights  (F0) are turned on.

 

It also says that if the decoder (8 pin) is fitted the wrong way round they will not work.

 

I've checked the fitting of the decoder and it is the correct way round but would like the option of turning the interior lights on and off.

 

Does anyone know which AUX the interior lights work on as at the moment they are working on F0?

 

I'm assuming that probably the interior and side lights are on the same circuit and cannot be worked separate unless someone knows different.

 

Thanks very much in advance!

Unfortunately this was a printing mistake by Bachmann and the interior lights are linked to F0.

 

I did a mod on one of my two 105's so that the interior light work on a separate function but is does involve butchering the tracks on the PCB's.

 

It took a bit of courage to do this but the results were worth the effort.  Only issue is the destination boards go off with the interior lights but I can live with this.  may try to separate then in the future.

 

Brian

[beejack]

Unfortunately this was a printing mistake by Bachmann and the interior lights are linked to F0.

 

I did a mod on one of my two 105's so that the interior light work on a separate function but is does involve butchering the tracks on the PCB's.

 

It took a bit of courage to do this but the results were worth the effort.  Only issue is the destination boards go off with the interior lights but I can live with this.  may try to separate then in the future.

 

Brian

 

I had the chance to take a look at the 105 I modified.  It's been a while since I did the works and I had forgotten exactly where the mods were made.

 

All work was done on the chassis PCB nothing was touched on the lighting board.  I had decided at the time with all the diodes used to ensure the interior lighting stayed on in either direction it wasn't worth trying to separate the destination board from the internal lighting.

 

On the PCB the two tracks going to the LED Minus contacts need to be broken.  a wire needs to be soldered to each contact and taken to pin 3 of the socket.  I put a resistor in line as I wanted to dim the lights slightly.

This should then allow thew directional lights on F0 and the interior/destination board on F1

[cravensdmufan]

I had the chance to take a look at the 105 I modified.  It's been a while since I did the works and I had forgotten exactly where the mods were made.

 

All work was done on the chassis PCB nothing was touched on the lighting board.  I had decided at the time with all the diodes used to ensure the interior lighting stayed on in either direction it wasn't worth trying to separate the destination board from the internal lighting.

 

On the PCB the two tracks going to the LED Minus contacts need to be broken.  a wire needs to be soldered to each contact and taken to pin 3 of the socket.  I put a resistor in line as I wanted to dim the lights slightly.

This should then allow thew directional lights on F0 and the interior/destination board on F1

Thanks very much Brian - that's exactly what I wanted to know.

[AMJ]

Some time ago I modified the Bachmann 47 so that the tail lights are on Aux 1 & 2 

 

Having fitted a ESU Loksound 4 into it a few years ago I never got around to sorting out the tail lights.  I decided to revisit it the other day as one of the lock down projects.

 

I have made the control for this simple to use. 

 

My logic settings are

F4 off tail lights off

F1 off (prime mover off) F4 on turns on markers at both ends 

F1 on (prime more on), F4 on turns on marker at rear of loco.

 

This was a serious tweak of 9 CV's.