roythebus Posted May 30, 2016 Share Posted May 30, 2016 I've just bought an SNCB rule book from 1952 and there's mention in there of LMS wagons being used in Belgium, and the special operating conditions for them. Presumably they were "lent" during or after the was to help with the rolling stock shortages. It appears they were all unbraked, so presumably the SNCB were still running unbraked goods at that time? Does anyone have any information about what types of wagons these were? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 The other possibility is that these wagons were being used on ferry services to carry things like new industrial equipment; I have seen some SNCB/NMBS film that showed unfitted LNER stock (bogie well wagons of some sort) being worked via the train ferry with items like generator stators. I'm not sure when all freights in Belgium began to be fully fitted; in France, certainly, there were wagons being built with just a through pipe in the late 1960s. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jonhall Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some British wagons ended up on the continent, there are some 'Time' magazine photos online of an SR Eliptical roof van being unloaded onto a beach, and I've just been given another photo of again an SR style van in Austria in the 1950's. There were also the 'SNCF' style 16T opens. Jon Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Controller Posted May 31, 2016 Share Posted May 31, 2016 The SR vans don't surprise me; not only were there a number of specially-branded ones for Cross-Channel traffic, but others had been adapted as part of Mobile Workshop trains in 1939/40, some being sent to France with the BEF in 1940, and others going over after D-Day. I believe the SR also had 12t 8-plank opens for ferry traffic. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted May 31, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 31, 2016 The Army took out a lot of stock as well as locos in 1944/5 to replace that destroyed, so besides ferry traffic there were probably still some of those around in the early 1950s. Additionally, quite a lot of stock was abandoned in the run up to Dunkirk, the LMS Ambulance Trains for example. A coach from one of these was found in Hamburg in 1945 being used as a home by a German family. The story of it was recounted in the LMS Carriage Association Newslatter in 2005. "In September 1945 The Railway Gazette ran a story headed 'LMSR Housing in Hamburg' that developed over several issues and concerned a coach of unmistakably British origin seen in the goods yard of that German city. The vehicle was painted in standard German dark green and bore the number 'Berlin-946847P', a builders plate ` LMS Derby 1929' with dimension plates '27T 57ft. x 9ft 3in.', and axleboxes stamped `LMS'. The correspondent stated that the coach had centre doors only, and as a German family was living in it he was unable to inspect the interior." For more see page 19 of this issue. http://lmsca.org.uk/media/droplight/D11.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
roythebus Posted May 31, 2016 Author Share Posted May 31, 2016 Many years ago Ron Platt showed a slide at an MRC slide show of a BR 12t box van in the yard in Muenchen. I've seen loads of 12T box van bodies being used as market stalls in Waterlooplien in Amsterdam back in 1978. Someone must have bought a job lot! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bernard Lamb Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 Additionally, quite a lot of stock was abandoned in the run up to Dunkirk, the LMS Ambulance Trains for example. A coach from one of these was found in Hamburg in 1945 being used as a home by a German family.My understanding is that at least one whole train survived the war and was found near Hamburg. Some of the coaches became WD Set 21. They had a step board added below the centre doors for use at low German platforms and were fitted with German tailboards and lamp brackets. I have a photo of the train by JJ Overwater dated 14th July 1945 taken at Breda with a WD 2-10-0. I do not know if the coach used as a home was recovered. Bernard Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonyA Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some British wagons ended up on the continent, there are some 'Time' magazine photos online of an SR Eliptical roof van being unloaded onto a beach, and I've just been given another photo of again an SR style van in Austria in the 1950's. There were also the 'SNCF' style 16T opens. Jon The SR elliptical roof vans in Europe were from the army Mobile Workshop Trains which included the 12T vans and CCTs. The one in Vienna is a former generator van, identifiable by the square vent on the roof. All vans had doors at one or both ends. The 12T vans were generator, stores and welding vans and the CCTs were the main workshop. The CCTs had completely new sides. After two initial 3-wagon mobile workshop trains were lost at Dunkirk, a further 21 4-wagon trains were ordered from the SR to be converted from existing wagons. Apart from the one in Austria, several of the vans ended up in the Netherlands. Incidentally, if anyone knows of any drawings or photos of the battery boxes fitted under the generator vans, please can they send me a PM. I would like to convert one using a Bachmann van but cannot find details of this fitting. Tony Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Axlebox Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 ex LNWR open wagons sold to the Belgians in the late 1940s...each wagon being loaded with coal...apparently they were short of both wagons and coal... Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hmrspaul Posted June 1, 2016 Share Posted June 1, 2016 The SR elliptical roof vans in Europe were from the army Mobile Workshop Trains which included the 12T vans and CCTs. The one in Vienna is a former generator van, identifiable by the square vent on the roof. All vans had doors at one or both ends. The 12T vans were generator, stores and welding vans and the CCTs were the main workshop. The CCTs had completely new sides. After two initial 3-wagon mobile workshop trains were lost at Dunkirk, a further 21 4-wagon trains were ordered from the SR to be converted from existing wagons. Apart from the one in Austria, several of the vans ended up in the Netherlands. Incidentally, if anyone knows of any drawings or photos of the battery boxes fitted under the generator vans, please can they send me a PM. I would like to convert one using a Bachmann van but cannot find details of this fitting. Tony http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/mosworkshop Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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