For those who like old Motorcycles.

[Kickstart]

Bit more done on the fzr600.

 

Indicators now work, working starter relay fitted, clock lights mostly work 😜, exhaust fitted, clutch cable fitted, radiator fan connected and coolant added.

 

Problems still to deal with include the starter motor trigger (the relay works if the trigger wire is grounded, and the oil light check circuit works if the starter button is pressed, but the starter button is not triggering the starter relay) , brake light, and the fan being on full time when the ignition is on.

 

But getting there.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[MrWolf]

That's the negative effects of having too many wires, man ...

Although when it's all working it should be a hoot.

 

Nice bit of tinworm in the background!

[polybear]

4 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

Nice bit of tinworm in the background!

 

It'll be fine with a T-Cut.....

[Kickstart]

1 hour ago, MrWolf said:

That's the negative effects of having too many wires, man ...

Although when it's all working it should be a hoot.

No smoke escaped yet!

 

All the best

 

Katy

[New Haven Neil]

2 hours ago, MrWolf said:

Nice bit of tinworm in the background!

 

Alfa?  Probably only a year old.

[MrWolf]

Sprint Veloce, Italian for "Galloping Tinworm" great to drive though. I've driven quite a few earlier Alfa's and Lancia's (and welded them!) Had a Lancia HPE once, passenger door fell off though and when I dug deeper.... I had to remind myself that I only paid £150 for it and walk away. One of my friends had a Fulvia which was just beautiful, although we did take the mick because it was a deep metallic rose red with a pearl interior " Here comes Wes in his Brigitte Bardot car..." My mate used to lend me his Sprint Veloce now and then. I think I was more gutted than he was when he stacked it on the road between Kendal and Sedbergh, playing pinball with the drystone walls at about sixty. I don't think we found all of it.

If I win the lottery it's likely to be an early fifties 2.6C roadster and a Lancia Aurelia on the shopping list.

And a 45 gallon barrel of waxoyl....

[MrWolf]

On 28/11/2022 at 19:58, Kickstart said:

No smoke escaped yet!

 

All the best

 

Katy

 

Ah, I see that you are also a believer in the power of magic smoke. Once it escapes, nothing works.

 

 

 

Edited December 2, 2022 by MrWolf
Stupid autocorrect

[Kickstart]

Hiya

 

The Sprint was my first car. Yes it rusted. Had a 33 afterwards that was far better for rust (certainly no worse than a Ford of the same age). Lovely cars to drive, and would love a nice one. The Sprint is just waiting for me to get the last few bits off it before it goes.

 

All the best

 

Katy

[spikey]

Why anyone might spend this much time and money on a Vincent engine then not bother sorting out a decent run for that ignition lead and whatever the thick lead/pipe is that will shortly melt itself onto the zorst pipe, I can't imagine.  But whatever.   What, pray, are those carbs? And what might be the purpose of that Shiny Thing below the primary chaincase?  Hopefully somebody can enlighten me ...

 

[Northmoor]

I have often wondered about people who devote so much time to polishing vehicles.

[New Haven Neil]

I'd say them carbs is fuel injection throttle bodies, and the thing underneath, is,er a thing.....

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, spikey said:

Why anyone might spend this much time and money on a Vincent engine then not bother sorting out a decent run for that ignition lead and whatever the thick lead/pipe is that will shortly melt itself onto the zorst pipe, I can't imagine.  But whatever.   What, pray, are those carbs? And what might be the purpose of that Shiny Thing below the primary chaincase?  Hopefully somebody can enlighten me ...

 

 

That pipe will never melt because it is in all likelihood a trailer queen. Built for pot hunting rather than ear'oling.

 

The "carbs" could possibly be some kind of fuel injection setup from a modern bike.

I believe that the shiny tig welded box under the crank case is some kind of exhaust collector, known to anyone who has owned a Japanese bike more than a few years old as a rain catcher or rust collector.

The removal of which necessitates either snapping off tiny 6mm mild steel studs or finding that the thread in the cylinder head has turned to white powder. 

 

How I hated the VF400F my one time girlfriends brother owned. If you could source a collector box, it cost more than the bike did. The second time I welded that useless item up, I helicoiled the heads and fitted stainless studs topped with brass dome nuts and shakeproof washers.

So when I had to make new split collars for it, the job was easy. Ish.

[Kickstart]

Found more on that Vincent. Seems to be a new build engine

 

https://www.returnofthecaferacers.com/vincent-motorcycle-cafe-racer/modern-black-shadow/

 

All the best 

 

Katy

[KeithMacdonald]

On 28/11/2022 at 19:58, Kickstart said:

No smoke escaped yet!

 

is it Lucas wiring?

[rockershovel]

Is the hump above the clutch, the electric start conversion? 

 

One thing I would say, is that Harley Davidson did the "hard yards" of civilising a basically 1930s V Twin with electric start and fuel injection some while ago.

 

Apart from the vibration that is. I'd be curious to know what that is like for vibration, the usual Achilles heel of any lightweight, highly tuned British bike. 

 

The business about the inlet tract length is old news. Look at any racing British single (or the HD XR750 for that matter, a basic design strongly influenced by 1960s British practice) and you can see this in application.

 

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by rockershovel

[rockershovel]

I know very little about fuel injection, except that it works and is best left undisturbed! 

 

However I did once have a speedway bike with one of these fitted 

 

 

This is the Mk2, a rather different beast from the absurd Mk1. Actually the Mk1 works well with Methanol on engines tuned for wide open throttle use, and the Mk2 is a development of that. 

 

It actually worked quite well, apart from having no idle screw or enrichment circuit... just open the tap, crack the throttle and spin the wheel and the engine would start easily, and pick up quickly. 

 

But... having no float bowl was a nuisance, as was having no choke on cold evenings and it didn't do anything that a Mikuni, Dell'Orto or Amal Mk2 didn't do at least as well, so I took it off. It's still around the workshop somewhere.

[New Haven Neil]

A sidecar racing pal had a pair of the originals on a Beezer (IIRC) outfit, back 'in the day', he reckons they were about as much use as a chocolate fireguard.  Not just 'all or nothing' but with added misfiring and uncontrollability.  Then again, he is barmy, he went on to race an outfit with the bonkers Konig 2 stroke flat 4 developed from an outboard motor.  As he has a TT replica in his lounge he kind of did know how to ride though!  He still leaves us all standing on our Old Farts Bike Club Friday morning rides out for brunch, although he's 75.

[rockershovel]

The real point about the Mk1 was that

 

(1) for engines running WOT there is a risk of the throttle slide sticking open due to the pressure differential. This is particularly true of flat-slide type bodies. Butterfly type carbs don't suffer from this.

 

(2) there is a general problem with the various passages in motorcycle type carburettors, forming an obstruction or limitation on flow; this can result in a major blow-up within seconds. The WP unit will flow as much as the lines will deliver and the jet will pass. 

 

(3) it appeals to the "speed for nothing" thinking which particularly affected  owners of piston-port two-strokes in the days before Yamaha and Suzuki made serious performance two-strokes at high-street prices. 

 

They aren't completely useless. Alf Hagon used them to set World records;

 

It's just that they have very few uses, and you have to be a man of Hagon's ability to make use of them 

Edited December 3, 2022 by rockershovel

[MrWolf]

I worked briefly with a chap who was very much into tuning Lambrettas, he was busy renovating one of those Wal Phillips fuel injectors designed to fit the scooter, I'd like to have seen how it turned out, as I remembered my brother in law having a giant AMAL carb on a GP200. Closest I got to two stroke tuning was a Burgess racing exhaust on a James Supersports. 

Not sure if it made any difference at all...

[rockershovel]

I had a grasstrack Bantam with a George Todd head and crankcase packers, 34mm Mikuni and extensive porting work. It had a TERRIFYINGLY loud expansion chamber and was generally MUCH faster than the notchy old 3-speed gearbox could handle. 

 

In the right hands (not mine!) it could keep up with Bultaco 250s...

Edited December 3, 2022 by rockershovel

[MrWolf]

I remember a similar thing with a DOT that had a Parkinson? barrel and crank conversion and a carburettor like a mineshaft on a side port that used to terrorise people on KX250s. A shame that the investment and I suspect interest in our own industry had almost vanished.

[spikey]

1 hour ago, rockershovel said:

I had a grasstrack Bantam with a George Todd head and crankcase packers ...

 

Now there's a name from my Bantam Racing Club days.  Fred Launchbury was another ...

[spikey]

16 hours ago, Kickstart said:

Found more on that Vincent. Seems to be a new build engine

 

https://www.returnofthecaferacers.com/vincent-motorcycle-cafe-racer/modern-black-shadow/

 

From which I learn that "It’s just such an easy bike to ride with the electric start, electronic fuel injection and it starts first time every time." 

 

Funny, that.  Once I'd rebuilt it and ensured that everything was exactly as per The Book, my Series D Shadow was such an easy bike to ride, with the standard Lucas coil ignition, standard kickstart crank, and standard Amal monoblocs.  If it didn't start first time, it was my fault for flooding the back carb ...

 

[MrWolf]

1 hour ago, spikey said:

 

From which I learn that "It’s just such an easy bike to ride with the electric start, electronic fuel injection and it starts first time every time." 

 

Funny, that.  Once I'd rebuilt it and ensured that everything was exactly as per The Book, my Series D Shadow was such an easy bike to ride, with the standard Lucas coil ignition, standard kickstart crank, and standard Amal monoblocs.  If it didn't start first time, it was my fault for flooding the back carb ...

 

 

I've had a similar experience with the BSA singles I've owned. I got the current B33 from someone who was convinced that the old wives tales were true.

A bit of tinkering found that the ignition timing was way out, meaning that when the magneto lever was on full retard, the timing was still on full advance and the carburettor was one of the most worn out examples I've ever seen, despite everything else on the engine being like new, having been treated to everything.

I struggled to start it initially. Now even the memsahib, who weighs about eight stone and has only been riding since 2019 can start it second kick from stone cold, much to the disbelief of the know-alls. (You'll never start that old thing love, it'll break your leg...)

I've seen people spend a fortune on electric start, alternators and who knows what else and it's generally something stupid that was wrong in the first place. I got stalled once with a bike that wouldn't start. The plug caps had been mistakenly replaced with those for resistor plugs, which meant a spark outside the engine, but nothing under compression. The only giveaway was a tiny letter -R on the cap.

I've always thought that if you want modern equipment and brakes etc, go out and buy a modern bike, you'll be much happier.

[spikey]

33 minutes ago, MrWolf said:

...I've always thought that if you want modern equipment and brakes etc, go out and buy a modern bike, you'll be much happier.

 

Indeed.  Why gubber up a real Goldie fitting electric start and whatnot because you're incapable of persuading it to commence in the time-honoured fashion by means of the lever provided, when you can go out and buy yourself a brand new up-to-date hi-tech pseudogoldie instead?

 

Edited December 3, 2022 by spikey