Uhlenbrock 64300 Daisy 2 or stick with NCE PowerCab?

[Pete 75C]

I need a completely new BASIC dcc system and am tempted to replace the NCE PowerCab that I used to own. That temptation comes from familiarity, in other words, there won't be too much of a learning curve.

However, I've been trying to read up a little on Uhlenbrock's 64300 Daisy 2 starter package and I quite like what I've seen so far. Does anyone own one of these systems, and if so, what are your likes and dislikes? I should mention that I have no interest at all in wireless or anything other than a basic DCC setup capable of handling a few sound-fitted trains... simple is good. I quite like the look of the display on the Daisy 2... it appears to be quite small but I'm wondering if the graphic bias of the display is intuitive or confusing.

 

[Nigelcliffe]

Daisy 2 is very good, possibly best handset on the market at present. I bought one for the local group layout (Coldfair Green).  Since buying it, several other people connected with the group have replaced various handsets/systems they own with a Daisy system.     It is more expensive than a PowerCab.

 

Advantages over PowerCab for loco driving -

• very comfortable in the hand, small, well balanced, and works nicely one handed. 
• customising the icons for each locomotive, so there is a graphical representation of each sound, unique per locomotive.
• each function key can be set as latching or non-latching for each locomotive in the roster on the Daisy.  So, if you need two non-latching keys for two different horns for a particular locomotive, Daisy can do it. 
• Roster stored in memory which can be scrolled through (or you can key the locomotive number).  Last used locomotive available on a quick key. 
• Control of accessories is superb (if you need accessories) for up to 32 accessories, and decently done if you use far more than 32.   
• Neat reversing loop control output should you need it. 

 

And the negatives of Daisy in general :

• screen a little small, so some writing is hard to read.  But Icons are fine to see.
• functions are in groups of 8 rather than 10 (so for F0 to F8 its simple, but by F9 is on the 1 key, F10 the 2 key and so on).   The way the screens are laid out, functions 0 to 24 are very easy to control, but F25 to F28 are not quite as nicely done. 
• need to purchase add-on computer interface to either update firmware on handset (insist your dealer checks the firmware is current before delivery) and to customise the icons in the icon library.  Or you have to find someone else who has bought the computer interface to make those changes.    Custom icons are useful - our handset has a lot of them. 
• If you get into connecting things to LocoNet then there are differences in the way Digitrax and Uhlenbrock implement LocoNet, particularly where the "ground" voltage is placed.  So, some devices which connect back to the DCC track feed won't work.   This gets very esoteric, there are work-arounds, and for most people its irrelevant. 

 

 

- Nigel

[Guest]

Daisy 2 is very good, possibly best handset on the market at present. I bought one for the local group layout (Coldfair Green).  Since buying it, several other people connected with the group have replaced various handsets/systems they own with a Daisy system...

 

Many thanks Nigel. That's all really useful. I am leaning towards the Daisy 2 if I'm honest. The PowerCab would be a safe bet and would no doubt do all that I would expect of it but I do fancy something different. Having browsed the importer's website, I think the computer inteface you mention is the 63120 USB LocoNet interface? I can't imagine I'd do anything with it other than customise the icons, so that may well be an optional/later purchase. I don't know anybody else that uses Uhlenbrock, so a quick "borrow" is unlikely!

Thanks again.

[Nigelcliffe]

Many thanks Nigel. That's all really useful. I am leaning towards the Daisy 2 if I'm honest. The PowerCab would be a safe bet and would no doubt do all that I would expect of it but I do fancy something different. Having browsed the importer's website, I think the computer inteface you mention is the 63120 USB LocoNet interface? I can't imagine I'd do anything with it other than customise the icons, so that may well be an optional/later purchase. I don't know anybody else that uses Uhlenbrock, so a quick "borrow" is unlikely!

Thanks again.

 

I'm in Suffolk, so a meet up to load new icons would be possible.   The time-consuming bit is drawing them all in a paint package in advance.   There are two versions of the interface, with and without a pile of Uhlenbrock software for £20 extra.  I have the version without the extras as I didn't see anything I'd use in the software packages.

 

The importers (A&H) have some good videos about the device. 

 

The other thing the Daisy handset gets used for is as a throttle on any Digitrax system - it just works fine for driving locos and operating accessories on Digitrax (though the Daisy probably won't program locos if connected to a Digitrax system).  

 

The Uhlenbrock manual describes working with a Fred handset.  You probably don't have a Fred lying around, but if you did, then loco selection on Fred is erratic.  This is only an issue on the Daisy command station (ie. Fred is fine on other command stations), and can be replicated.  The bug was reported to Uhlenbrock via A&H around Jan/Feb this year, and I've stopped chasing up to find if its ever going to get fixed, and assume it won't be. 

 

 

- Nigel   

[Guest]

I'm in Suffolk, so a meet up to load new icons would be possible.   The time-consuming bit is drawing them all in a paint package in advance.   There are two versions of the interface, with and without a pile of Uhlenbrock software for £20 extra.  I have the version without the extras as I didn't see anything I'd use in the software packages.

 

The importers (A&H) have some good videos about the device. 

 

The other thing the Daisy handset gets used for is as a throttle on any Digitrax system - it just works fine for driving locos and operating accessories on Digitrax (though the Daisy probably won't program locos if connected to a Digitrax system).  

 

The Uhlenbrock manual describes working with a Fred handset.  You probably don't have a Fred lying around, but if you did, then loco selection on Fred is erratic.  This is only an issue on the Daisy command station (ie. Fred is fine on other command stations), and can be replicated.  The bug was reported to Uhlenbrock via A&H around Jan/Feb this year, and I've stopped chasing up to find if its ever going to get fixed, and assume it won't be.

 

Nigel... Two questions if I may.

Does the user manual have an English section? One of the comments I have read online is that the manufacturer "fails to recognise that not everybody outside of Germany speaks German".

Secondly, can I assume it's possible to change the handset's display language to English using a menu selection? My French is OK and I speak a little Spanish but German... not a word. It would be an incredible chore to have to use an online translator for everything.

Thanks, Pete.

[Nigelcliffe]

Handset has multi languages, and I'd expect a UK dealer to supply it set to English.  I don't think our group Daisy has been anything other than English. 

 

Manual is available in English from Uhlenbrock website.   Also, UK wholesale importer (A&H in Northamptonshire) is very good at providing translations and video explanations of things.  A&H supply a number of retailers around the UK.  

 

 

http://www.uhlenbrock.de/de_DE/service/download/handbook/en/INDEX.HTM

 

What's missing from the English manuals is the update to the Daisy manual covering the firmware update changes, that's German only.    Online translation tools (eg. Google, Bing) make a reasonable job of converting paragraphs if its needed. 

 

 

- Nigel

[Guest]

Again, much appreciated Nigel. The familiarity of the NCE was tempting, but I have just now ordered the Daisy 2 from Wickness. Currently on offer at £45 below the usual retail price, making it just £25 dearer than the basic NCE PowerCab setup. I've checked with them and the firmware is the latest v2. Looking forward to connecting it to a test plank and having a play with the only sound-fitted loco I have. Learning curve, here I come.

Thanks again.

[Nigelcliffe]

You've got it at a very good price.  

 

 

For our group layout I added a Digitrax UP5 panel plate to the front of the layout.  This made throttle connection neater for our setup.  I connected the LocoNet-B from the Daisy command station into the rear of the UP5. With a DC power supply to the UP5, the front sockets are LocoNet-T and suitable for a Daisy throttle.   
 

[TWG]

I too think that you have got a bargain there.  I have a Daisy 2 (not the "System" but as a controller for use with an Intellibox 2) and I find it excellent.  My layout has been exhibited a few times, and the model railway club colleagues with no experience of DCC, whose assistance I enlisted, mastered the use of Daisy very quickly and praised its ease of use. 

 

A few brief observations:

 

The Digitrax UP5 panel will be fine but do not buy a Digitrax Loconet Repeater, as only Digitrax controllers will work with it.  Uhlenbrock now do their own panel.

 

The purchase of the Loconet interface is of course an additional expense, but the Powercab does not have one built in either.  I think having an interface is possibly worth the money for the ability to download software updates, but there are additional advantages, particularly the use of the Daisy Tool software.  This is free and makes the compiling of the loco database very much easier.  Entering loco names and setting up all the symbols for the various functions is slow and tedious using the handset. The programme also allows you to draw your own symbols.

 

If you think that you might in the future use some of the Uhlenbrock Loconet accessories it would be a good idea to buy the interface bundled with the Loconet Tool software.  This adds €20 to the price, but that is a lot less than the €49 that is the cost if the software is bought separately. 

 

The radio version of the Daisy handset is brilliant (if admittedly very expensive).

 

It is annoying that not all Loconet appliances are compatible.  My Intellibox 1 handbook dated 1999 says that "all Loconet devices known at present can be connected", but subsequently paths have diverged slightly.

[Guest]

Ok... a quick update...

The Daisy 2 arrived from Wickness yesterday (excellent service, btw). Although I don't plan to use it immediately, first impressions are good. Ergonomically, it's an absolute delight. Well made, light, fits the hand beatutifully and the control wheel is excellent. Much better to hold than the NCE PowerCab. I also picked up a Digitrax UP5 panel as the panel that comes bundled with the NCE was a useful feature. If I'm correct, the UP5 needs to be powered separately and not just from the track bus.

I'd never heard of Uhlenbrock until starting to do a little research recently. If it does what it says on the tin, I shall be more than happy and I confess I'm a little surprised that they're not more popular.

Once again, thanks for the info.

[Nigelcliffe]

Ok... a quick update...

The Daisy 2 arrived from Wickness yesterday (excellent service, btw). Although I don't plan to use it immediately, first impressions are good. Ergonomically, it's an absolute delight. Well made, light, fits the hand beatutifully and the control wheel is excellent. Much better to hold than the NCE PowerCab. I also picked up a Digitrax UP5 panel as the panel that comes bundled with the NCE was a useful feature. If I'm correct, the UP5 needs to be powered separately and not just from the track bus.

 

 

The UP5 will work if connected to the LocoNet-T output of the Daisy-2 system, certainly enough for a single Daisy handset.   However, it will be better long-term to get a 12v DC power supply for the UP5 and connect it to the LocoNet-B output of the Daisy-2 system, that way you're certain there is enough power for any additional handsets. 

 

The track connections to the UP5 are only to power the LED on the front of the UP5 which shows whether the track power is on or off.  I've not bothered with it, other than to show it works.

 

 

- Nigel

[Guest]

Quick update... just over 3 weeks since ordering the Daisy 2 from Wickness, it's up and working on my little scenic test track project.

An absolute delight to use, far less "clunky" than the NCE PowerCab I had previously. I'm finding the menu system quite intuitive but obviously have to resort back to the manual for a lot of things. Works perfectly with the Digitrax UP5 panel, with no reason to think that it wouldn't.

Thanks to all for your help. I'm delighted with the Daisy 2 and would have no hesitation in recommending it. I'm still an absolute beginner with DCC but I'm convinced this was the correct purchase for me.