Jon Fitness Posted May 29, 2013 Author Share Posted May 29, 2013 Now that's a very interesting area of decision Jon. I'm not sure quite why the signal should be in that position but there no doubt was a prototype. However what there very definitely was an LMR prototype for is such an arrangement at the end of a platform where the line changed status from a Passenger Line to a siding and there was no letter whatsoever revealed when the miniature arm came to 'off' - just as would be the case reading into a siding, goods loop or any other sort of 'No Block' Line. Hi Mike, Such is the fun of building for other peoples layouts! Where a normal run round loop's xover would be at the end of the platform line, this one is in the middle and the layout's owner would like to use the one platform as 2 seperate platforms split in the middle. His idea is to be able to start a DMU from the bufferstop end, through the xover and round a Dmu stood at the open end (for want of a better term). This signal is my take on protecting the xover as trains arrive. Possibly a "C" may be better as it's all still a passenger line. I know of plenty of places that have split platforms with signals half way down (Chester for one!) but they are all on through platforms not dead ends. Cheers JF 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted May 30, 2013 Author Share Posted May 30, 2013 With the black/white/grey paint on, I added some planks at platform level and stained them with some well thinned brown/black mixture. A little job to do (a plate with a smaller hole over the red lens on the c/o arm) and it'll be done. Next up is a welded stem bracket from the MSE kit. I've built a few of these over the years but I haven't tackled one recently. I know there's an issue with some part of the fold up geometry which I always seem to forget to tackle but this time I'll sort it....if I can remember what it is.... Back soon once I've attacked it with the tin snips and benders. JF 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 (edited) Managed a little nocturnal snipping and bending... The signal's main post or stem is etched to represent 2 sections of [ shape held apart by rectangular plates. A bit of careful bending in the bars... ...and the two halves fit together like so. Care has to be taken with the folded edges as there is not only a mix of full and half etched areas on the bend but the half etched fold areas have an "open" bit to allow easier folding. This means there is a risk of distortion as parts aren't fully supported. The idea is that the gaps are subsequently filled in with solder. Waving a soldering iron over those bends/joints would probably cause the thinner half etched bits to distort so I may have to support/brace the inner joints with a bit of 1.5mm angle or scrap etch on the inside. The trimmers or cross beams that support the dolls are folded up to [ section and are in 2 portions. The longer section will take 3 dolls with a smaller extension for another doll. The doll spacings on this signal will be 11ft and 6ft so the full length will be required. The final bit of bending for the night was the main support brackets. More soon JF Edited May 31, 2013 by Jon Fitness 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushType4 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Hi Jon, Have you ever made anything like the signal in the photo below? If you have! I sure would like to see how you did it Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 Ah no!. It's got one of those evil colourlight thingies sprouting out of the top of it !. The nearest thing to that I've done is a banner repeater back at #91 entry. Looks interesting though... JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold The Stationmaster Posted May 31, 2013 RMweb Gold Share Posted May 31, 2013 Ah no!. It's got one of those evil colourlight thingies sprouting out of the top of it !. The nearest thing to that I've done is a banner repeater back at #91 entry. Looks interesting though... JF Kings Cross was indeed an interesting place with its 1930s colour lights and those rather attractive shunt/shunt ahead 'arms'. I think this might be ok to post and the Mods can remove it if it isn't but here is the illustrations from one page of a leaflet produced by SGE which was an extract of an article originally published in 'The Railway Gazette' 80 years ago this week. Sorry to intrude on your thread with such things Jon but as colour lights go they were a bit on the different side. 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) I have one like the signal in the photo if any pictures are of help... Edit to add... I also know of the location of one of the rollerblind indicators too. I suspect it is not in very good condition now though. Ooodles of paperwork for both. Edited June 1, 2013 by LNERGE 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrushType4 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I have one like the signal in the photo if any pictures are of help...Edit to add... I also know of the location of one of the rollerblind indicators too. I suspect it is not in very good condition now though. Ooodles of paperwork for both. Pictures would be good if Jon doesn't mind a small diversion on his thread. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LNERGE Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 I've stated a new thread here.. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72399-kings-cross-signals/ to keep this clear for Jon's excellent signals.. 2 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 I have one like the signal in the photo if any pictures are of help... Edit to add... I also know of the location of one of the rollerblind indicators too. I suspect it is not in very good condition now though. Ooodles of paperwork for both. Pictures would be good if Jon doesn't mind a small diversion on his thread. I've stated a new thread here.. http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index.php?/topic/72399-kings-cross-signals/ to keep this clear for Jon's excellent signals.. I have one like the signal in the photo if any pictures are of help... Edit to add... I also know of the location of one of the rollerblind indicators too. I suspect it is not in very good condition now though. Ooodles of paperwork for both. No problem at all chaps ! More of a semaphore man meself but all interesting stuff JF Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 (edited) Found some scrap etch strip to brace up the main post sections. The thickness of the strip laid flat along the inside of the flat section is sufficient to fill the corner gaps and hold the half etched side pieces rigid.The 2 halves were then brought together and soldered up to make a very strong stem. The trimmers are held apart by the doll fixings which fold up. They also act as a "stand off" for the lampmans staging so that it's not directly fastened to the trimmers. The trimmers assembled. The doll spacings are set up to match the holes on the etched planking supplied in the kit which come out at 11ft and 6ft Meanwhile I received a tasty new etched sheet today for making LMS 3ft1 Pratt truss gantries, paralell lattice brackets and an assortment of useful bits which I must must MUST put away until I've finished the current jobs! More soon JF Edited June 1, 2013 by Jon Fitness 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 6, 2013 Author Share Posted June 6, 2013 A quick triplet of LMS U/Qs. Usual M/O! New etched backblinders used...very nice they are too. JF 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 10, 2013 Author Share Posted June 10, 2013 (edited) Hoof, what a day !It is a long time since I made one of these. I’d forgotten all the er…shortcomings of the kit!The main post has a recessed area at the top for the trimmers to rest on but as the post is a bit too tall for this job I shortened it, leaving a plain top. The assembled trimmers fit on the top of the post and I used little bits of scrap etch to act as a brace hidden within the top. The fit against the post unfortunately doesn’t allow much of the trimmer’s flanges to overhang the post. This in turn allows almost no overhang of the bracing flange at the top of the post (Cue sound of penny dropping regarding previous constructional problems… ).Once the post and trimmers were securely fitted it was time for the bracing bracket; penny no.2 dropped as I held up the folded up bracket against the post. Much too heavy looking so they were binned and a replacement made up from 1.5 x 1.5mm brass angle. I also topped off all this by suddenly realising the brush I had been using for applying flux had previously been used for applying brass blackening fluid…no wonder I was struggling …..even the cats went and hid due to the language. This explains why I've shielded your eyes from some of the more appallingly tatty joints...Honestly, sometimes I wonder if I should be left unsupervised with a hot soldering iron !! More cockups soon JF Edited June 10, 2013 by Jon Fitness 4 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 11, 2013 Author Share Posted June 11, 2013 A little more work on the bracket.. The staging looked a little weak and I didn't think it would support itself on the doll mounts alone so I braced it with a few bits of brass section. This assembly was then soldered wherever it touched the trimmers and where I could get the soldering iron! The holes for the dolls are much too big so I added some short sections of brass tube to "plug" the dolls into once they are made up. The one over the main post was a bit problematic as I hadn't allowed access to solder it from below . I sorted this by drilling the main post right through at 0.7mm about 8mm down from the top and inserting a piece of wire through. I then cut a slot in the base of a length of tube, pushed it through the main hole and latched it on to the wire. It was then soldered at the top and is quite solid now! All 3 tube "sockets" in position The 3 dolls cut and in position for testing alignment. (not too far out, it's just the camera honest!) More soon JF 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium jamie92208 Posted June 11, 2013 RMweb Premium Share Posted June 11, 2013 It's nice to see that you're resisting temptation Jon. Jamie Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 12, 2013 Author Share Posted June 12, 2013 (edited) It's nice to see that you're resisting temptation Jon. Jamie There's a certain wooden posted bracket needs doing first ! JF Edited June 12, 2013 by Jon Fitness 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 20, 2013 Author Share Posted June 20, 2013 On a short break to the IOW I took a few bits and tools down with me and assembled the 3 dolls. Quite pleasant it was too. I'm happily sat in the caravan weilding a soldering iron and the wife's sat next to me assembling couplings for Premier Components then off down to the Vine for a pint of Wight Gold.. . Anyway, back at home the dolls were fitted back in the sockets to see how they looked. The right hand one sat about 1mm lower than the middle one so a quick adjustment and then the dolls were soldered in permanently. All 3 lamp wires were tested and found OK and then these were fed through holes drilled in the top of the main post. All 3 wires were then joined beneath the base plate and re-tested and all 3 lights worked OK. Please excuse my usual messy soldering! (It'll all clean up honestly... Work then started on the ladders for the 2 taller dolls and the main handrail stanchions so this is where I'm up to now. Next job will be the cross shafts and linkages. More soon JF 10 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 21, 2013 Author Share Posted June 21, 2013 Cross shafts This bit may be a bit picture heavy! To transfer the operation of the various wires to work the arms across most of their steel bracket signals, the LMS used cross shafts. These were stacked on various supports across the trimmers and were quite a neat and efficient method bit of kit but quite fiddly to replicate in model form. After making various clunky efforts at them which sort of worked, I sat down with the esteemed Mr Hewitt at a model show and took advice from the master and tried to take on board some of the methods he showed me! He uses this method in 4mm scale and is far neater with it than I'll ever be These are some of the bits used. 0.5mm N/S wire, N/S tube with an internal diameter of about 0.6 and some slightly larger tube that telescopes over the smaller one and the usual odds and ends of scrap etch. I made a (very) rough sketch to approximate where the various arms and supports were going to be and referred to it as and when required. I know it's only to work 2 out of the 3 arms but I find these bits quite challenging to build, whilst trying to balance appearance and mechanical robustness! The idea (if I can articulate this properly) is a semi-fixed axle of 0.5mm wire, and 2 free running telescoped tubes with operating arms soldered at the required spacing to match the wire runs. The axle is supported at each end and the smaller tube is cut to fit almost exactly between the supports to prevent lateral movement. The larger tube runs on the smaller tube and a middle support also acts to locate it laterally....or something like that. It's not identical to the real thing but it's a good working compromise (now you know why there's so many pics... ) 2 small supports were drilled and soldered up to support the axle on a strip that would fit between the webs of the trimmers. This is the axle and 2 tubes mounted on it. and being tested for fit.. Next up some scrap strip is used to make the various little arms that fit on the tubes. These were soldered on to the tubes and tried in place. To keep the larger tube in it's correct alignment, a midway support was needed. This had to be made and fitted but left floating on the tube until further assembly/testing had taken place To fix the assembly to the signal I used 3 x 14ba bolts screwed into captive nuts soldered behind the trimmers. These were fitted by using a bolt treated with blackening fluid to hold them tightly in position before soldering them, hoping that the blacking would hold the solder off the bolts ...phew! it worked thankfully! More test fitting...(sorry!) Once I knew it all fitted ok I couldn't resist a quick hook up of an arm to see how it worked... More soon JF 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonME46 Posted June 29, 2013 Share Posted June 29, 2013 Looks great as always John. Had a quick look back through your thread, but didn't really spot how you locate the signals in the baseboard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 29, 2013 Author Share Posted June 29, 2013 Looks great as always John. Had a quick look back through your thread, but didn't really spot how you locate the signals in the baseboard? Hi Simon. Usual methods are dig a hole about 2mm less all round than the base plate. Straight posts and balanced brackets etc will usually just sit happily in the hole without any fastening down. As the servo is attached to the signal base, all the effort of movement is self contained so the signal stays put and if you knock it at all it stands less chance of damage. Offset bracket signals I fit the same but a couple of pan head screws in to the baseboard (not through the baseplate) so that the head of the screw just picks up the edge is usually enough to keep them steady. As the servos just plug into the driver board under the layout, all building and testing takes place on the bench and the signal can just be dropped in place and plugged in. Similarly any maintenance/repairs are easy as the signals are easy to remove. Cheers JF 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted June 30, 2013 Author Share Posted June 30, 2013 Had one of those "just get on with it and sod the pictures" moments again. They tend to strike when the job gets a bit difficult. Spent a few sessions making up the linkages, involving the cross shafts, weight bars servos and wire restraints; not a job I enjoy as far too much thinking is required for my feeble brain! Everything has to be arranged/assembled in the right order so I don't tie myself in knots and have to undo things to make others fit. Only then was I ready to fit things like ladders and the rear half of the handrail. The front half will be fitted once all the signal arms/linkages are in place, hence the masked off bits on the stanchions; much easier than trying to scrape off the paint to get a good soldered joint. Painting involved quite a bit of dismantling (once I knew it was all workable) and masking off as I like to spray the grey/black/white using Halfords rattle cans. These are much more robust than enamels and less likely to come off during handling. First the front of the post and the all 3 dolls were sprayed white. Next, these areas were masked off and the whole thing sprayed grey, giving the cross shaft assembly a lighter coating. Finally, everything except the base of the post and the main ladder was masked and a good waft of matt black applied. I finally admitted defeat with the black bits on the dolls/ladders and brush painted them with enamel. Sooo....just got to put it all together now and hope it still works ... More soon JF 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 Well the W/S bracket went back together reasonably well (managed to get 2 weightbar/operating wires in the wrong order) and it's working OK. The front handrail was soldered on and the front and back sections jointed with small lengths of tube. I made a reasonable job of matching the grey paint up but I think the handrails should be black anyway (anyone?) After much testing with both the MERG board and the GF Controls version, nothing went ping and I got on with final painting. Apart from 3 blobs of white required to cover where the backblinders have been soldered up, that's it. If anyones interested, I'll post some video clips of it on test on facetube in a couple of days.... Anyroad, it's time to get the woodworking tools out again for the next two signals. More soon JF 7 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
SimonME46 Posted July 4, 2013 Share Posted July 4, 2013 Looks great John. I've just ordered some GF boards as I ended up including a pair of calling on signals in the signal box rebuild. Look to be very good units, and will make the embedded control movement look less realistic...oh well. What's the story with the white back binders? Most previous signals were black? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 (edited) Looks great John. I've just ordered some GF boards as I ended up including a pair of calling on signals in the signal box rebuild. Look to be very good units, and will make the embedded control movement look less realistic...oh well. What's the story with the white back binders? Most previous signals were black? Hi Simon, most LMS/BR(M) upper quadrant back blinders (where fitted; they're generally only necessary where the signalman can see them) were/are white and I standardised on it a while ago. There's bound to be exceptions to the rule where local S&T departments painted them black/grey etc. and GWR ones seem to be mostly black. With other companies/regions signals, I just work to available piccies! The GF boards are very nice, but my only gripe with them is the signals go to "off" with an open switch rather than a closed one. Apart from that ..lovely and certainly worth the money. I'm looking forward to their forthcoming 8 servo board! Anyway, hopefully here is a vid or link to a vid of the bracket on test. More soon JF Edited July 4, 2013 by Jon Fitness 3 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Fitness Posted July 4, 2013 Author Share Posted July 4, 2013 More pics of the W/S bracket (sorry).. Well, the sun was shining this afternoon, that's my excuse..... I promise....No more pics until the wooden bits are out of the packet! JF 5 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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