problem with Multimaus turnout control

[chaz]

I am hoping to use my Multimaus DCC system to control the switches (points, turnouts whatever) on the FVRR.

 

I spent the afternoon configuring a batch of MERG accessory decoders. These have eight outputs which are used in pairs to switch Tortoises. I was writing to CVs to set the addresses, in groups of four (naturally enough). I did this work using an ESU programming interface with ESU programming software running in the laptop. I tested each decoder in turn using the turnout control facility in the software with a Tortoise hooked up to each output pair in turn. No problems arose with every output switching the Tortoise as it should in response to on-screen "buttons". I was powering the decoder and Tortoise with a transformer supplying 12V AC and rated at about 1.5A. I marked each decoder with a label, showing the four addresses that I had written to the relevant CV (513).

 

Later I hooked up one of the decoders with a Tortoise connected to an output pair to my Multimaus system with the same 12V transformer powering the decoder and Tortoise but with the DCC signal coming from the layout track bus.

 

Switching the Multimaus to Turnout control and entering the address of the relevant decoder output pair there was no response from the Tortoise. Ziltch.

 

I checked both the AC input and the DCC signal input on the decoder board - both lit a test LED (with a series resistor of course) so the connections were sound. I also double checked the address number and then tried a different decoder board - still no joy.

 

Anybody have any idea why this set-up is not working?

 

Chaz

[eldavo]

There is a disparity with the addressing between some systems due to ambiguities in the NMRA DCC spec.  I suspect the address used by the Multimaus is +4 (or is it -4) on the address you have set using the ESU gear.

 

Cheers

Dave

[chaz]

There is a disparity with the addressing between some systems due to ambiguities in the NMRA DCC spec.  I suspect the address used by the Multimaus is +4 (or is it -4) on the address you have set using the ESU gear.

 

Cheers

Dave

 

Thanks for that, Dave - very useful information. First thing tomorrow I will try +4 and -4 to address the decoder but obviously not with the 1-4 ouput set! Should it turnout (sorry!) that you are right a remedy would be to re-address the inputs using the Multimaus - if that is possible? disconnecting the track connection of the Maus "black box" and applying it directly to the decoder should avoid any inadvertant effects on the locos but will it work? Alternatively I will just have to change the labels on all the decoders so that the addresses match.

 

Chaz

[Butler Henderson]

The multimaus is 4 out. There is a way of working round it but cannot recall it - I have it working LS150s working 1-6 and 7-12.

[chaz]

Sorted!

 

I've just tested the accessory decoders connected to the Multimaus system and you chaps were quite right.
Decoder 1 - with channels coded 1 - 4 with the ESU programmer, responded to 5 - 8 on the Multimaus.
Decoder 2 - with channels coded 5 - 8, responded to 9 - 12 and so on.

 

Now...

There isn't any way to put in a negative code into the ESU programmer to get codes 1 - 4 (is there?)

And the Multimaus will not program CV513 - which the MERG accessory decoders use to store the address of the group of four outputs.
So, my problem is solved - all I have to do is re-label the decoders and accept the fact that the numbers of the track switches (points, turnouts) on my layout will start with 5. A minor annoyance - no big deal.

Thanks lads!

PS - if I had read right through the Multimaus manual     I would have found a note about the turnout addresses all being offset by 4! There also a note on the same page about the system being unable to program CVs higher than 255 - so I will continue to need the ESU programmer to set CV513.

Chaz

[chaz]

The multimaus is 4 out. There is a way of working round it but cannot recall it - I have it working LS150s working 1-6 and 7-12.

 

Thanks for that.

 

I have one LS150. No programmer is required for this. The address is set by pressing a button until the red LED lights. Then the required address for output one is sent as a normal switching code, the LS150 then sets all six output codes in a block - I haven't yet tried this with the Multimaus but I will need to as I suspect my set codes will now overlap - I used the next address on from the last MERG board for the LS150.

 

Chaz

[Nigelcliffe]

Sorted!

 

I've just tested the accessory decoders connected to the Multimaus system and you chaps were quite right.

Decoder 1 - with channels coded 1 - 4 with the ESU programmer, responded to 5 - 8 on the Multimaus.

Decoder 2 - with channels coded 5 - 8, responded to 9 - 12 and so on.

 

Now...

There isn't any way to put in a negative code into the ESU programmer to get codes 1 - 4 (is there?)

And the Multimaus will not program CV513 - which the MERG accessory decoders use to store the address of the group of four outputs.

So, my problem is solved - all I have to do is re-label the decoders and accept the fact that the numbers of the track switches (points, turnouts) on my layout will start with 5. A minor annoyance - no big deal.

 

 

 

The MERG accessory device CV's can be programmed if you subtract 512 from the CV numbers in the manual.  Thus, CV513 is CV1, etc..     A value of "0" is acceptable for the base address, so if using a value of "1" gives you turnouts 5-through-8, then a value of "0" will give you 1-4.    (But, of course, it won't then work on the ESU as that won't do negative turnout numbers....). 

 

 

- Nigel

[chaz]

The MERG accessory device CV's can be programmed if you subtract 512 from the CV numbers in the manual.  Thus, CV513 is CV1, etc..     A value of "0" is acceptable for the base address, so if using a value of "1" gives you turnouts 5-through-8, then a value of "0" will give you 1-4.    (But, of course, it won't then work on the ESU as that won't do negative turnout numbers....). 

 

 

- Nigel

 

Thanks for that useful information. I have no need to operate the boards from the ESU programmer, that was just a means to program in comfort from the laptop. I will try to reprogram the highest numbered MERG board to group 0 - 1-4. It is, after all, more elegant to start numbering turnouts at "#1".

 

Chaz

 

PS - SORTED!   I have reprogrammed my highest numbered MERG board by using the Multimaus menu to get to PROGRAM and then setting CV1 to 0. Now I have a board with outputs numbered 1-4, filling nicely that annoying gap.

 

Thanks again for the tip - worked a treat!

[Phil S]

it may now be increasingly important to add a caveat|.

 

When a Multimaus is used with a Z21 or z21, the user is given an option of having the 4 offset or not...

There is currently no option, or likely to, when used with the '764 Amplifier or its predecessor .... Where the software is actually running in the Multimaus handset, or with the MultiCentralPro which runs the main software internally.

 

I have caught myself out twice ( years apart) when checking out one of our portable g scale layouts before a show, for which we usually use Roco Multimauses and the standard '764 amplifier with a 16-18Vdc SMPS (4A) or MZP for wireless handsets ... Running smaller locos with sound but on the level.... But. at the actual event change to using the more powerful Masoth Dimax800....because it allows unfitted locos to be run ( not recommended in most gauges, but a standard feature of LGB MTS handsets... Hence included by Massoth for compatibility)

A 'forgotten' side effect of the change being the change in point numbering by 4. Going DOWN from the 1-4 on the Roco to negative numbers ( xxxxx...????) in the first 4 output module, and shifted down by 4 in the remainder. ... And requiring a wire link to reprogram each LGB module 8-( IN future I may use the Z21 to match the numbers ...... I'm looking forward to the Wi;Fi handsets due for release shortly!!!

 

Also - if you use the NCE dcc analyser, it reports the addresses as with the Massoth/LGB/z21 option/Ztc etc. By being 4 lower than the multimaus

[chaz]

it may now be increasingly important to add a caveat|.

 

When a Multimaus is used with a Z21 or z21, the user is given an option of having the 4 offset or not...

There is currently no option, or likely to, when used with the '764 Amplifier or its predecessor .... Where the software is actually running in the Multimaus handset, or with the MultiCentralPro which runs the main software internally.

 

I have caught myself out twice ( years apart) when checking out one of our portable g scale layouts before a show, for which we usually use Roco Multimauses and the standard '764 amplifier with a 16-18Vdc SMPS (4A) or MZP for wireless handsets ... Running smaller locos with sound but on the level.... But. at the actual event change to using the more powerful Masoth Dimax800....because it allows unfitted locos to be run ( not recommended in most gauges, but a standard feature of LGB MTS handsets... Hence included by Massoth for compatibility)

A 'forgotten' side effect of the change being the change in point numbering by 4. Going DOWN from the 1-4 on the Roco to negative numbers ( xxxxx...????) in the first 4 output module, and shifted down by 4 in the remainder. ... And requiring a wire link to reprogram each LGB module 8-( IN future I may use the Z21 to match the numbers ...... I'm looking forward to the Wi;Fi handsets due for release shortly!!!

 

Also - if you use the NCE dcc analyser, it reports the addresses as with the Massoth/LGB/z21 option/Ztc etc. By being 4 lower than the multimaus

 

Thanks. I'm sure that's useful information for some, but for my simple layout (On30 - 10ft x 14ft) a simple Multimaus setup with two handsets and a few extra sockets so that the "slave" handset can move around the layout is all I will be using.

[Phil S]

Thanks. I'm sure that's useful information for some, but for my simple layout (On30 - 10ft x 14ft) a simple Multimaus setup with two handsets and a few extra sockets so that the "slave" handset can move around the layout is all I will be using.

Don't forget that with Mulimauses, it is easy to move from one controller to another..... Rather than unplug and replug. As soon as you enter the same loco, it flashes the symbol on both controllers, and then turning the knob takes over control. Flashing stops.

 

Multimaus and amplifier are readily available cheaply from starter sets.... And despite what Roco/Fleischmannn say in the instructions... The Amplifier 10764 CAN be used as a booster - and without alteration - simply by connecting the booster connector in/out AND NOT inserting ANY controller into its master or slave sockets. Upto 4 boosters may be daisy chained ( each using their own power supply of course.... 18Vdc SMPS......) ..... The only difference between the 10764 amplifier and the box sold as the booster is the inclusion of the extra booster loop through socket .... Instead of master and slave sockets. If you want, this can be added to the 10764 box.... It goes where the 'gap' in sockets is... And is simply a passive loop through which can be done with a y splitter externally instead.... And blank off the master and slave sockets on the new 'boosters'.

For my loft layout I had a slave handset bus running to all 4 corners, with handsets permanently plugged in wherever they may be wanted (by each station)..... I bought many start sets 8-). Now I have TheMZP and blue wireless pro handsets .....awaiting the new wifi version to be able to use the z21 Similarly. (We try to keep separate sets of controllers for each layout, as they contain the different groups loco lists... Although copying between handsets is very easy.)

[chaz]

Don't forget that with Mulimauses, it is easy to move from one controller to another..... Rather than unplug and replug. As soon as you enter the same loco, it flashes the symbol on both controllers, and then turning the knob takes over control. Flashing stops.

 

Multimaus and amplifier are readily available cheaply from starter sets.... And despite what Roco/Fleischmannn say in the instructions... The Amplifier 10764 CAN be used as a booster - and without alteration - simply by connecting the booster connector in/out AND NOT inserting ANY controller into its master or slave sockets. Upto 4 boosters may be daisy chained ( each using their own power supply of course.... 18Vdc SMPS......) ..... The only difference between the 10764 amplifier and the box sold as the booster is the inclusion of the extra booster loop through socket .... Instead of master and slave sockets. If you want, this can be added to the 10764 box.... It goes where the 'gap' in sockets is... And is simply a passive loop through which can be done with a y splitter externally instead.... And blank off the master and slave sockets on the new 'boosters'.

For my loft layout I had a slave handset bus running to all 4 corners, with handsets permanently plugged in wherever they may be wanted (by each station)..... I bought many start sets 8-). Now I have TheMZP and blue wireless pro handsets .....awaiting the new wifi version to be able to use the z21 Similarly. (We try to keep separate sets of controllers for each layout, as they contain the different groups loco lists... Although copying between handsets is very easy.)

 

More useful information. Thanks, Phil.

 

Maybe you can answer a few of questions?

 

I have three spare Lenz LA152s, can I use these to plug in MM handsets?

 

Do you know a source of panel mount RJ45 type sockets? How do I wire them back to the slave socket on the amplifier?

 

Will a Lenz LH90 handset work with the MM system?

[Phil S]

I can only answer the RG question:   Y-splitters are available off the shelf from Maplin or Ebay etc. {4 pole and 6 pole types)   2-way versions for simple cable extension are also available - but you might as well keep to the Y's and have a useful free socket 8-)

 

Also, on the subject of 'manual errors', the Rocomaus manual states that the Library Names applies to CV1 addresses ... a bit limiting... HOWEVER ANY ADDRESS short or long can be stored in the library - upto to limit of 64 in each handset.    Complete libraries my be copied from handset to handset.

 

Also useful to remember when using multiple handsets: NEVER unplug the MASTER when in use ... it is running the software !!

ALSO it is the MASTER Multimaus which remembers the settings of POINTS/Accessories and last locomotive(s) between sessions ..... if you randomly plug in a different Multimaus for each session, as the Master, you will find 'discrepancies' between your displayed and actual point settings 8-( (just as if you had changed them by hand) 

 

If you wish to add in a computer 'glass screen' display (with or without any feedback), and do not have a Rocomotion adapter(with its software), then as well as other Expressnet compatible PC interfaces available there is an economical kit which is east to build from opendcc (search on the web). That then gives you a choice of software.  If you use a touch screen, route setting etc can be very easy to use. 

[Suzie]

...I have three spare Lenz LA152s, can I use these to plug in MM handsets?

 

Plug the LA152s into the slave socket and you will be fine.

 

You can use LA152s with the master Multimaus when plugged into the master socket with a 6-way cable but in that case you must plug the master Multimaus into one of the rear sockets, and all other throttles into the front sockets.

[Suzie]

...Will a Lenz LH90 handset work with the MM system?

 

Yes, but only as a slave. You must have a Multimaus as master.

[chaz]

 

 

[ use of LH90?] Yes, but only as a slave. You must have a Multimaus as master.

 

 

Plug the LA152s ito the slave socket and you will be fine.

 

You can use LA152s with the master Multimaus when plugged into the master socket with a 6-way cable but in that case you must plug the master Multimaus into one of the rear sockets, and all other throttles into the front sockets.

 

That's very useful information, thanks Suzie. I was thinking of connecting to the slave socket. My master Multimaus will always be plugged into the master socket.  I will buy two or three RJ45 cables to link the LA152's up (as I have them). I will try the LH90 out as a third handset - I have mixed feelings about them as controllers with sound equipped models. As they are available so cheaply I may go for a third MM to avoid the need for frequent unplugging and moving. Take-over is so easy.

 

Chaz

[chaz]

I can only answer the RG question:   Y-splitters are available off the shelf from Maplin or Ebay etc. {4 pole and 6 pole types)   2-way versions for simple cable extension are also available - but you might as well keep to the Y's and have a useful free socket 8-)

 

Also, on the subject of 'manual errors', the Rocomaus manual states that the Library Names applies to CV1 addresses ... a bit limiting... HOWEVER ANY ADDRESS short or long can be stored in the library - upto to limit of 64 in each handset.    Complete libraries my be copied from handset to handset.

 

Also useful to remember when using multiple handsets: NEVER unplug the MASTER when in use ... it is running the software !!

ALSO it is the MASTER Multimaus which remembers the settings of POINTS/Accessories and last locomotive(s) between sessions ..... if you randomly plug in a different Multimaus for each session, as the Master, you will find 'discrepancies' between your displayed and actual point settings 8-( (just as if you had changed them by hand) 

 

If you wish to add in a computer 'glass screen' display (with or without any feedback), and do not have a Rocomotion adapter(with its software), then as well as other Expressnet compatible PC interfaces available there is an economical kit which is east to build from opendcc (search on the web). That then gives you a choice of software.  If you use a touch screen, route setting etc can be very easy to use. 

 

Thanks for that. This MASTER-running-the-software is an interesting approach and I hadn't realised all the implications. I am tempted to get a ROCO MM (my present two are Fleischmann "grey ones") - the orange case will mark it out as the MASTER - not to be unplugged!

 

Chaz