Please help with my signals (GWR)

[The Stationmaster]

Not very easy to model pinch bar or horse operation in 00, though! And a slip connection off the trailing crossover from the Down line would still require crossing the Up line - unless there was some geographic reason to do so, it would be easier to build the goods shed on the Down side to start off with.

Definitely a problem modelling shunting with a pinchbar!  

 

But there were plenty of places where trains shunted 'across the road' to service yards and goods yards on the GWML in the London Division the ones which immediately come to mind are Hayes & Harlington (where shunts were made from the Relief Lines across the Mains to shunt sidings on the Down side, as well as shunting across the Up Relief from the Down Relief), Langley when worked by Down trains, Taplow (from the Relief Lines across the Mains to reach the goods shed and across the Up Relief for Down freights to drop traffic for Lent Rise, Maidenhead west for Down freights shunting across the Up Relief to work the yard (or also at Maidenhead Middle but easier at the weWest, Waltham Sidings where the traffic siding was on the Main Lines side but served by trains on the Reliefs, Twyford West where the goods shed could be shunted from the Down Relief across the Up Relief - and the Down relief Starting Signal had a Shunt ahead arm to facilitate such moves, at reading West Jcn the yard pilots shunted across from the new yards on the north side over the two Goods Lines, two Relief Lines and two Main Lines and Oxford Road Curve to make transfers to/from the Down Old Yard, Pangbourne had a connection across the Up Relief to allow Down trains to shunt the goods yard and - like Twyford - had a Shunt Ahead arm on the Down Relief Line Starting Signal to facilitate such shunting, same at Goring (also with a Shunt Ahead arm on the Down Relief Starting Signal),  Cholsey goods yard had a direct connection to the Down Relief across the Up Relief, same at Steventon ... and so on.

 

In fact I would think it more usual than unusual that the majority of GWR double line wayside stations had a track layout which allowed the goods yard to be shunted off both running lines and that to do so for trains in one direction inevitably meant crossing the opposite running line.  and when it comes to it what is wrong with shunting or making moves across the opposite running?  At one of my 'boxes in the 1970s one particular freight train, conveying petroleum products, was frequently regulated by crossing it to the opposite running because due to a long block section there was insufficient margin between passenger trains to get it to the next loop - just normal everyday railway work although a comparative rarity by then.

[Grovenor]

and when it comes to it what is wrong with shunting or making moves across the opposite running?

It's just the modeller's keep things running syndrome, with an oval the train frequency of every 30 seconds or so does not allow for shunting across, also explains the overabundance of 'shunt necks' at small model stations. Real timetables were different.

Regards

[RJS1977]

I think what looked wrong to me was that the goods shed could *only* be shunted with a loco from the opposing line - if the goods shed was to be on the up side, I would have expected it to have been on the headshunt to enable up trains to shunt it, or on a loop to enable trains in either direction to shunt.

[Donw]

I would not argue with anything SM Mike has said certainly real railways had no issue with crossing the main lines to shunt. In model form it may seem awkward if you are one of those who likes to see a train laping round the main while shunting.  I find it difficult to understand what the track layout and signalling is trying to achieve. Firstly you have a bay platform which suggests a terminating passenger service but the layout as drawn doesn't seem to offer a run round suitable for that use. There is a short loop where the two crossovers to the Bay/sidings are. If they were further apart it would create a longer loop. However that might mean moving the trailing crossover further out or adding another as there would need to be a means of get onto the other main from the bay. Alternatively the bay could be used more for van traffic .

If you did make the loop longer the two sidings off the bay could be there to hold wagons dropped off to await the  branch freight. 

 

What I am saying is you first need to understand the traffic pattern because the station layout and signalling will follow from that. It is true that in some cases the traffic changed and railway staff had to cope with a layout ill designed for it but often the layout would be redesigned at some stage.

 

If like me you are a bit hands on, I enjoy using three link couplings, you could simulate pinch bar working by poking a wagon along with a cocktail stick but this would cause some comment at an exhibition! Chain or rope shunting could be used but would seem more likely if it were a private siding to a mill or factory. More natural would be to have the siding long enough to hold a few wagons while still having enough room for the loco to shunt a few wagons in and out of a short kickback siding with the goods shed. I wouldn't expect there to be a lot of traffic for the goods shed with it awkwardly placed. Highworth might be an example where it was fairly busy despite being awkwardly placed.

 

Don

[Il Grifone]

The bay could be served by an autotrain/railcar or gravity shunting was not unknown on the prototype (e.g. Yelverton/Princetown branch). Granted the latter is not easy to portray on a model, though it has been done.

 

Ashburton had a somewhat similar arrangement to this goods shed. I believe 'fly-shunting' was the practice (again difficult to represent). I read somewhere A 'Dart Valley' guidebook IIRC) that on one occasion insufficient 'fly' resulted in a wagon stopping on the crossover, blocking the locomotive in the station. Calling for assistance was obviously out of the question (they would have never lived it down!), so the solution was to use their initiative (following the rule book) and unbolt the point operating bars...