danstercivicman Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 And the signal box is discontinued.... Maybe I can cobble something together from the Scale Scenes kits? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 I think you could get away with a 20 lever frame, so 7' on 4" centres. Your box looks to be about 12' so not out of the question. It does assume that only there is nothing more than the minories layout controlled from the box. Paul. Yes, just this section and the home (red signal, with a platform indicator) the other side of the bridge and the outer home (red signal) before the fiddle yard? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 This might do it? http://www.lcut.co.uk/index.php?product=B%2000-12&title=B%2000-12 Then I can paint it up? 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 There would be another box on the other side of the bridge for sighting reasons. That would control the home signals and any further points. A project for when you finish the corner section. Except you've probably finished it by now! Cracking stuff Eds 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bescotbeast Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 And the signal box is discontinued.... Maybe I can cobble something together from the Scale Scenes kits? Keep an eye out on ebay This might do it? http://www.lcut.co.uk/index.php?product=B%2000-12&title=B%2000-12 Then I can paint it up? That's not bad at all Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 It's a nice looking signal box that, the only issue is there's not a lot of space... knowing the other signals would be controlled from a second box is a relief Do you think the point to the diary would also be controlled from a ground frame? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Classsix T Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Nice layout this'un, and that 4mt is just lush! C6T. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2016 (edited) I think the Bachmann signal box is a bit big unless it were to be controlling a lot at the other side of the bridge. It is based on Loughborough North which currently haouses a 50-lever frame. Based on what I think your track layout is, and putting in a logical set of moves needed to operate a loco-hauled service I would estimate that just for the station area about a 25-lever frame would be more likely. This would assume that shunts to clear platforms or release locos were done 'Right Line' Looking at the pictures the dairy sidings would need a trap point to protect the platform, although if space was tight a derailer or scotch block may be provided instead. I'm not sure what the distant signal at the bridge is for. It would be unlikely to provide one at this position, and if it were it should not have a diamond sign on the post. Edited December 9, 2016 by TheSignalEngineer 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 Good info, I am equally not sure what the distant at the bridge does! My shunts are all done to the right (up to London) line...I hope that's correct. I think a derailer will be in order for the dairy siding. ATM I only have one ground signal- going from the loco spur to the up where the trap point is-would that be correct? Also would there be a series of ground signals for the up line when shunting back towards the station? Finally is my signal box in the correct place as CJF's plans originally show it in the middle between the down and the dairy siding? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zomboid Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 Giving it 15 seconds of thought, I'd expect it to have 6 Points (some may be worked as crossovers) 6 FPLs 3 platform starters 1 advance starter (maybe, other terminology is probably available and correct, would be down the line the other side of the bridge) 1 outer home (far side of the bridge) 3 inner homes (maybe, 1 per platform, probably far side of the bridge) 4 shunt signals (loco spur, to/from freight area, from down main towards platforms for LE moves) I imagine the distant would be fixed? Which amounts to 24 levers, and it would possibly have a couple of spares - trap points would be worked as crossovers? Not really my specialist subject, but I'm hoping someone will correct my ignorance 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 How does this look for a Signal Plan for the layout? I will add a second signal box near the fiddle yard which will control that side of things near the to be built embankment! Best Dan Feedback appreciated Layout signal plan.pdf Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
James Harrison Posted December 9, 2016 Share Posted December 9, 2016 There's a signalling diagram for Minories in CJF's signalling for modellers book, if you can find/borrow/buy a copy. Off the top of my head, the most notable feature is the provision of calling-on signals into the platform roads. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted December 9, 2016 Author Share Posted December 9, 2016 Yeah I've used that as a pattern it's due to the dairy and ground signals that I'm querying...I think my terrible sketch has it now . I'm thinking 2 more wills kits will be needed for the point locks Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 9, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 9, 2016 The calling-on signal into the platforms will be required if it is possible to put a second train into an occupied platform or to allow a light engine to enter from the Down line to take out a train. The disc in the dairy is for coming out. The points inside would be hand points so no need for signals at that. The stack disc could actually be a single disc as any move using it will be an out-and-back so there is little room for confusion by the driver. He should know exactly where he is intended to finish up. The points will require five levers including the trap/derailer in the dairy. There will be five facing point locks. The lazy way is to have a lever for each, but there are two ways of doing them with four levers and possibly one way with three levers but I don't think I would recommend that one. If there is a Starting signal controlled by this box a train length beyond the bridge then there would be no need for the shunt arms below the platform end signals. If the Block Section is short there probably wouldn't be room for an Outer Home signal on the approach. I would estimate a minimum of 24 levers and a maximum of 30 levers plus two or three spares. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Premium Flying Pig Posted December 10, 2016 RMweb Premium Share Posted December 10, 2016 There would be another box on the other side of the bridge for sighting reasons. That would control the home signals and any further points. A project for when you finish the corner section. Except you've probably finished it by now! Cracking stuff Eds Surely in a station this compact there would just be a berth track circuit in rear of the home and the one box, especially by the 1960s? If the Block Section is short there probably wouldn't be room for an Outer Home signal on the approach. If it's very short there could be a distant arm on the advanced starter, or even on the platform starters too if it's very very short. Which is argubly more decorative than the shunt ahead arms Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 There is space the other side of the bridge for a train length so maybe I can delete the shunt arms for the platform ends, although I have butchered the ratio signal to fit them in! I will run with just one disc for the up line for shunts. I will then add a calling on signal for the home approach (far side of bridge for the down line). This is for LE and Moves into the platforms behind trains. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 10, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2016 Depending on the location of the next box and who controls the next signal, also company and era when the layout was last resignalled, there could be a case for the shunt ahead arms. It depends on a lot of factors. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 I think if the shunt arms at the platform ends were taken out then surely the platform starter would allow the road to he cleared as far as the advanced starter by the fiddleyard which could be set to on, the shunt would always be onto the up line (towards London) so I guess the shunt signals are not required? I will keep a shunt signal in the approach signal the other side of the bridge where there is s platform indicator as this will be required for light engine moves and running trains into the partially occupied roads? Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
edcayton Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 Surely in a station this compact there would just be a berth track circuit in rear of the home and the one box, especially by the 1960s? If it's very short there could be a distant arm on the advanced starter, or even on the platform starters too if it's very very short. Which is argubly more decorative than the shunt ahead arms I was supposing more than plain track beyond the bridge. Agree that one box may have gone by the 60's (and some track). Ed Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 Here are some pictures from last night and this morning before going out for some family time on a rare joint day off!!! Here we have a Stanier 4P on a local three coach BR Suburban working. The 4MT 2-6-4t is acting as Station Pilot and has brought the ECS for the semi fast into P1. The 5MT has run light engine and is coupled up ready to take the 11:30 am semi fast to London calling at, Woodford Halse and then pretty much everywhere on the way to Marylebone taking a leisurely 3 hrs to get there... The 4MT 2-6-4t will then follow it to the buffers before taking the local stock out of P3 for the Stanier 4P.... 12 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 (edited) AND NOW TO SIGNALLING... Here we have the Platform end starters- no shunt signals just red ones! Then there is the loco spur ground signal. I imagine that its best located at the trap point and that the trap and the point in front of it on the up line would be connected so when the ground signal is off the points are set for both the trap and the point onto the mainline otherwise it seems a tad pointless There is a ground signal controlling the exit from the dairy to P3. Then the other side of the bridge is the Home (?) on the down road This has a red signal, a calling on signal and the box thing is going to be a Platform Indicator On the UP there is a ground signal which would be used when shunting back into the Platforms. The ground signal would be controlled by the main box and I guess if sighting was an issue then the Home would be controlled by another Box? Finally heading into the fiddle yard is the advanced starter (?) This is one red signal and the track here would disappear under a bridge. This is controlled by the same box unless sighting would mean that this would need to be controlled by a Second Box. Ahead would be a junction to the goods yard spur and the engine shed... (maybe future developments if I win the lottery. Please let me know how these signals fit? They are based on CJF's ideas in the trackplans book. Edited December 10, 2016 by danstercivicman 8 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 10, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2016 Getting close to what would probably have been. The ground signal from the loco siding should be before you reach the points. In real life it would probably be about 12 feet away depending on the vintage of the equipment. The Calling-on arm on the Home signal would have had horizontal red/white/red stripes rather than vertical in BR days. Depending on the controls applied and amount of track circuiting, especially as the bridge blocks visibility, both the Home signal and the Starting signal by the fiddle yard would have diamond signs, but would probably not have telephones. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 Awesome it's getting there! It's hard work this signalling!! Thank you everyone for the inputs (Ran out of signal paint).... will paint that as s call on soon So the diamond sign is s track circuit where the circuit tells the signal man line blocked Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold TheSignalEngineer Posted December 10, 2016 RMweb Gold Share Posted December 10, 2016 In old signalling when a train was stopped at a signal the fireman was supposed under Rule 55 to go to the signalbox and sign the train register to remind the signalman that the train was there. If the train was standing on a track circuit which either prevented the protecting signal(s) in the rear from being cleared or prevented the signalman from giving Line Clear for another train to approach on the same line then there was no need to do this. A diamond signa on the signal was to tell the train crew that the signal was exempt from Rule 55. Sometimes, particularly if the signal was a long way from the box such as an 'Outer Home' or 'Advance Starter' a telephone would be provided. This was in a box with diagonal white stripes on it and sometimes there was a 'T' on the diamond. In this case the train was detained for more than a certain time at the signal, often 2 minutes, then the fireman would call the signalbox to see what the cause of the delay was. 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
danstercivicman Posted December 10, 2016 Author Share Posted December 10, 2016 Great info! I will add a telephone box to the home the other side of the bridge and the outer home before the fiddle yard. Strangely enough I managed to find a shunt/calling on signal that I had painted years ago! So that's all fixed!! The next job on the layout is to do the embankment round the corner section and do the other side of the bridge (bring on more days off!) Thank you everyone for your help In terms of locos/stock my priorites are: 1) Ivatt 2MT 2) Black Five 3) 2nd set of BR MK1's for the semi fasts I wonder would an ex LNER V3 have ever worked such a location- sadly most of the V2 2-6-2's seem to have been binned off at the time of my layout... 1 Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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