Top choice volumes of Model Diagrams

[844fan]

Hey all,

Tomorrow or today depending on your current clock time will be my 29th birthday and I'm trying to track down some good books on modeling. Thanks to a awesome friend from this very forum I have learned of Abebooks and it's wonderful service of book selling with easy access to the US market. As such I'm finally able to grab some books on my favorite railway hub the UK.

 

But I am after a specific set for my birthday this year. Those that have information on the locomotives with scale drawing diagrams for the moment. But Abebooks has a simple search function and I need advice on what titles by whom are great matches to said type.

 

I know of two examples of books that are the type so to help everyone out I'm going to list them here.

 "Great Locomotives of the Southern Railway by O.S. Nock" and "A History of Highland Locomotives" by Tatlow" At the moment I'm looking for books covering NBR and GER areas but LNER or LBSC books of the type would be welcome too. 

 

Thank you all for the help and I'm glad to say I'll be able to add some books I've had my eye on for years but was never able to get till I found Abebooks to my collection. On another note I will finally be able to add Christopher Awdry's book's to my Railway series collection since I have all of his father's in a single book already I just need his.

[Nick Holliday]

I don't know the book "Great Locomotives of the Southern Railway by O.S. Nock" but I have a feeling that it is not quite what you are after.  O S Nock was very strong on performance and timings, and I suspect it is mainly narrative and contains few drawings - often his books would have outline diagrams of designs that never got off the drawing board.  There is, however, the magnificent "Pictorial History of Southern Locomotives" from J H Russell.  A huge volume that has drawings of virtually every locomotive on the Southern, including the LBSC, although it has to be said that the quality of the drawings is variable, depending upon their source, ranging from outline weight diagrams to detailed plans.  This used to be an expensive purchase, but looking at Abebooks the price seems to have dropped, probably because it was, for a time, sold at a ridiculously low price as one of the incentives to sign up to the infamous Railway Book Club, and it would seem these are now creeping onto the market.  Russell also produced a couple of volumes in a similar style on GWR locomotives.

Russell is probably the easiest source of LBSC locomotives (not sure how they rest with your other tastes for GER and NBR!) but perhaps if you want a bit more detail, then J N Maskelyne's Locomotives I Have Known (compendium version) has a generous selection of many of the principal LBSC classes, together with lots of other gems from other lines.  There is also a reprint on the market at quite a low price which covers the loco history of the LBSC up to 1903.  This has lots of drawings (side elevations only sadly) of an intriguing variety of locos, but probably the majority are too early for you.

Unfortunately, whilst the LBSC is well covered regarding every aspect of its rolling stock, the GER  and NBR are currently rather the poor relations.  I cannot recall any book that has more than a few drawings of their locos or coaches, although their wagons are reasonably, but not totally, covered in the recent Tatlow LNER wagons series. The one exception is the book of drawings taken from the Engineering magazine, and published by Oakwood, but the range is rather esoteric, and I have an interesting slim volume that traces the history of GER 0-4-4 tanks, which has lots of drawings of these rather unfamiliar beasts.

[Nearholmer]

If you are into modelling the period when the locos were built, you won't find better drawings than those in The Engineer and Engineering, both accessible via the website 'grace's guide'.

 

They take a bit of finding, and they contain a lot of detail that isn't needed to build a model, but by golly are they good.

 

Of course, only the locos that the CME wanted to brag about are included, but, thankfully, stroudley was dead keen to share his ideas, which were widely copied. His 0-6-0 goods engine design conquered Scotland and half of England.

 

K

[Dunsignalling]

IIRC the Nock volume contains (at best) simple "Weight Diagrams" rather than scale drawings. I disposed of the copy I had so presume it not to have tallied with my interests. EDIT: I do still have it after all that and, apart from a few cross sections of boilers and other features, it appears to contain no drawings at all. 

 

I would second Nick Holliday's recommendation of A Pictorial Record of Southern Locomotives, by J.H. Russell

 

My own copy is the notorious Book Club edition, but doesn't appear to be at all inferior to the "official" ones belonging to friends.

 

You may well find it significantly cheaper to acquire than the original imprint. 

 

John

[844fan]

I don't know the book "Great Locomotives of the Southern Railway by O.S. Nock" but I have a feeling that it is not quite what you are after.  O S Nock was very strong on performance and timings, and I suspect it is mainly narrative and contains few drawings - often his books would have outline diagrams of designs that never got off the drawing board.  There is, however, the magnificent "Pictorial History of Southern Locomotives" from J H Russell.  A huge volume that has drawings of virtually every locomotive on the Southern, including the LBSC, although it has to be said that the quality of the drawings is variable, depending upon their source, ranging from outline weight diagrams to detailed plans.  This used to be an expensive purchase, but looking at Abebooks the price seems to have dropped, probably because it was, for a time, sold at a ridiculously low price as one of the incentives to sign up to the infamous Railway Book Club, and it would seem these are now creeping onto the market.  Russell also produced a couple of volumes in a similar style on GWR locomotives.

Russell is probably the easiest source of LBSC locomotives (not sure how they rest with your other tastes for GER and NBR!) but perhaps if you want a bit more detail, then J N Maskelyne's Locomotives I Have Known (compendium version) has a generous selection of many of the principal LBSC classes, together with lots of other gems from other lines.  There is also a reprint on the market at quite a low price which covers the loco history of the LBSC up to 1903.  This has lots of drawings (side elevations only sadly) of an intriguing variety of locos, but probably the majority are too early for you.

Unfortunately, whilst the LBSC is well covered regarding every aspect of its rolling stock, the GER  and NBR are currently rather the poor relations.  I cannot recall any book that has more than a few drawings of their locos or coaches, although their wagons are reasonably, but not totally, covered in the recent Tatlow LNER wagons series. The one exception is the book of drawings taken from the Engineering magazine, and published by Oakwood, but the range is rather esoteric, and I have an interesting slim volume that traces the history of GER 0-4-4 tanks, which has lots of drawings of these rather unfamiliar beasts.

I see so more often than not O.S. Nock's books were articles about the line with basic drawings of some of the stock. That is a pity but I do know that there is a drawing of one locomotive class in it's prerebuilt shape the Drummond T14 though I'm not 100% on it's scale or detail. I may still get the book at some point but as you say it may not be the kind I want this go around.

 

As for the GER and NBR you are very much correct on them having a lack of coverage compared to the Southern and Northern regions. I am having one heck of a time locating any type of drawings of a J88 Dock Tank. Considering how many locomotives these days are coming from LNER stock (Like Tornado and Scottsman returning to steam.) you'd think that they would be looked after a lot more.

 

If you are into modelling the period when the locos were built, you won't find better drawings than those in The Engineer and Engineering, both accessible via the website 'grace's guide'.

 

They take a bit of finding, and they contain a lot of detail that isn't needed to build a model, but by golly are they good.

 

Of course, only the locos that the CME wanted to brag about are included, but, thankfully, stroudley was dead keen to share his ideas, which were widely copied. His 0-6-0 goods engine design conquered Scotland and half of England.

 

K

Well it's not really period to speak. I'm a bit eclectic on my locomotive taste and I even dabble in freelance designs of my own. I follow the Richard Ince school of Railways "It's my Railway and I can Jolly well do what I like with it." that man was a truly amazing railway modeler and his bridge work was second only to the engineers who built the brides he modeled.

 

IIRC the Nock volume contains (at best) simple "Weight Diagrams" rather than scale drawings. I disposed of the copy I had so presume it not to have tallied with my interests.

 

I would second Nick Holliday's recommendation of A Pictorial Record of Southern Locomotives, by J.H. Russell

 

My own copy is the notorious Book Club edition, but doesn't appear to be at all inferior to the "official" ones belonging to friends.

 

You may well find it significantly cheaper to acquire than the original imprint. 

 

John

Hmm the book is quite promising but a bit beyond my spending range this go around. Funny enough I see another book with a similar title "Locomotives of British Railways Southern Group. a Pictorial Record" But from a quick search it is definitely not anything like the book we are talking on.

 

 

Ok just found a interesting title what is your guys opinion on "Locomotives Worth Modelling by Hambleton, F. C." Looks quite promising if not for any specific line by the looks of it.

[Nick Holliday]

The Hambleton book is quite interesting, if you can get hold of it cheaply. The subjects covered are quite varied and esoteric, and the drawings come in a variety of scales, but, as the title suggests, being for modellers, there is usually a scale bar or key dimensions to get things sorted. One of its particular delights is the amount of detailed sketches provided, cab fittings, tender fronts, chimneys,valve gear and lamps etc. However, this doesn't apply to every loco covered, and some just consist of a single side elevation, sans tender.

In some detail you get:

Midland singles, 25 & 1853 & 115 & 2601, Compound rebuilt, 0-6-0 1447

South Eastern 4-4-0 Onward

LCDR 2-4-0T 145, 0-6-0 T1

GWR Single and 4-4-0 Gooch

LBSCR Gladstone, C and C2 0-6-0 and 0-4-0WT No 400

LSWR Adams 4-4-0 448 & 591 & 575, 0-4-4T O2

LNWR Precedent, original and rebuilt, a six footer 2-4-0, Problem 2-2-2, Compounds Experiment and Adriatic, Alfred the Great 4-4-0, DX 0-6-0

L&YR 4-4-0 1093

NER 0-8-0 2116

GER 2-4-0 Petrolea, 2-2-2 1006, 0-4-0ST 209

GNR 2-2-2 55, Stirling bogie singles 1, 1 in later condition, & 5

NLR 4-4-0T 48, 0-6-0T 80

MSLR 4-4-0 694, 566 & 268

There are also simple drawings of the Caledonian single, and a couple of GWR broad gauge singles

Sorry about having to use the loco numbers, he tended not to identify them by the class designations we use today.

[844fan]

The Hambleton book is quite interesting, if you can get hold of it cheaply. The subjects covered are quite varied and esoteric, and the drawings come in a variety of scales, but, as the title suggests, being for modellers, there is usually a scale bar or key dimensions to get things sorted. One of its particular delights is the amount of detailed sketches provided, cab fittings, tender fronts, chimneys,valve gear and lamps etc. However, this doesn't apply to every loco covered, and some just consist of a single side elevation, sans tender.

In some detail you get:

Midland singles, 25 & 1853 & 115 & 2601, Compound rebuilt, 0-6-0 1447

South Eastern 4-4-0 Onward

LCDR 2-4-0T 145, 0-6-0 T1

GWR Single and 4-4-0 Gooch

LBSCR Gladstone, C and C2 0-6-0 and 0-4-0WT No 400

LSWR Adams 4-4-0 448 & 591 & 575, 0-4-4T O2

LNWR Precedent, original and rebuilt, a six footer 2-4-0, Problem 2-2-2, Compounds Experiment and Adriatic, Alfred the Great 4-4-0, DX 0-6-0

L&YR 4-4-0 1093

NER 0-8-0 2116

GER 2-4-0 Petrolea, 2-2-2 1006, 0-4-0ST 209

GNR 2-2-2 55, Stirling bogie singles 1, 1 in later condition, & 5

NLR 4-4-0T 48, 0-6-0T 80

MSLR 4-4-0 694, 566 & 268

There are also simple drawings of the Caledonian single, and a couple of GWR broad gauge singles

Sorry about having to use the loco numbers, he tended not to identify them by the class designations we use today.

Now this book indeed sounds like a must have. I'm sure some cross referenceing would help me figure out the modern class titles. Promising very promising. May I assume that what you've listed isn't everything? From my recent look Abebooks has it for decent prices. So maybe just maybe it's my third pick for my birthday all depends on what I hear back from a friend on. 

 

Thank you very much I'll make sure to add it to my collection one way or another sooer or later it's a must have.

[Nick Holliday]

Now this book indeed sounds like a must have. I'm sure some cross referenceing would help me figure out the modern class titles. Promising very promising. May I assume that what you've listed isn't everything? From my recent look Abebooks has it for decent prices. So maybe just maybe it's my third pick for my birthday all depends on what I hear back from a friend on. 

 

Thank you very much I'll make sure to add it to my collection one way or another sooer or later it's a must have.

I'm afraid that the list is all the locos covered. The book contains lots of detailed sketches of fittings, various anecdotes and plenty of technical information. However the coverage is not uniform - perfect for Brighton and LNWR modellers perhaps, but not for some of the other lines

[Nick Holliday]

An interesting book that might be of interest is available from the Stephenson Locomotive Society. Their second collection of locomotive drawings has a wide selection of side elevation drawings in 4mm scale. The mix is eclectic and the most interesting ones are the various Victorian designs, many of which didn't make it into the Edwardian era. There are four or five NBR locos, but all are extremely crusty, including an Edinburgh and Glasgow single, whilst a similar number of GER locos are more modern, but sadly tender less. If you want to explore obscure lines there are several Wrexham Mold and Connah's Quay locos, as well as several from Cumbrian and Cambrian backwaters. Altogether quite inspirational if you want some unusual locos to scratch build, but the lack of end elevations and tenders means that you will have to do further research, or use a bit of inspired guesswork.

[EddieB]

Abebooks is a great resource - here in the UK it is a very good means of buying books from Germany, when many dealers there will not ship overseas via Amazon due to some highly restrictive p&p flat rates there.

 

As far as the Great Eastern Railway is concerned, the best resource for locomotive drawings is through the GERS (https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/files-emporium-home) from whom you can buy individual drawings (which can be downloaded as PDFs - which saves time and postage costs to the USA).  They also have scanned copies of the series of articles that ran in the Locomotive Magazine over a hundred years ago, which included many of the fine drawings prepared by HT Buckle at Stratford - available as individual PDF files, or as a collection on DVD.  These resources are available to members and non-members alike - although I would certainly recommend membership as it gives access to the society's own journal (historical issues available to members on DVD), which includes much about locomotive history.

 

If you want books, "Locomotives of the Great Eastern Railway" by C. Langley Aldrich is still widely available second-hand (having been through numerous editions), and there is a book of locomotive drawings by Mike Sharman (Oakwood - these seem little more than copies of Buckle's side elevations - but I don't have a copy to hand).  There were also monographs by Peter Proud published by the RCTS covering the Claud Hamilton class and Great Eastern 0-6-0Ts - no drawings and information presented in the style of the "green book" Locomotives of the LNER series, and of course the book on the 0-4-4Ts by my late friend, Geoff Pember, as mentioned by Nick Holliday.

 

I can't really help much with the North British Railway.

 

The North British Study Group have some publications that may be of interest - individual line drawings and a wire-bound volume.

[Nick Holliday]

Don't dismiss the Russell book, even though it appears expensive, it is a massive book. 382 pages, probably as many drawings and photographs. It's original retail price was £34.99, so the current prices on Abebooks represent a bargain, especially the book club edition I saw, as there is no difference between the two editions. The main problem is that at nearly four pounds in weight, the postage to America could be considerable.

[844fan]

An interesting book that might be of interest is available from the Stephenson Locomotive Society. Their second collection of locomotive drawings has a wide selection of side elevation drawings in 4mm scale. The mix is eclectic and the most interesting ones are the various Victorian designs, many of which didn't make it into the Edwardian era. There are four or five NBR locos, but all are extremely crusty, including an Edinburgh and Glasgow single, whilst a similar number of GER locos are more modern, but sadly tender less. If you want to explore obscure lines there are several Wrexham Mold and Connah's Quay locos, as well as several from Cumbrian and Cambrian backwaters. Altogether quite inspirational if you want some unusual locos to scratch build, but the lack of end elevations and tenders means that you will have to do further research, or use a bit of inspired guesswork.

Oh indeed there are quite a few locos that were part of the Colonel's lines I want to model. In particular the 0-8-0 Hecate and the little Gazelle. I'll see what I can find on their books. Thanks for the info.

 

Abebooks is a great resource - here in the UK it is a very good means of buying books from Germany, when many dealers there will not ship overseas via Amazon due to some highly restrictive p&p flat rates there.

 

As far as the Great Eastern Railway is concerned, the best resource for locomotive drawings is through the GERS (https://www.gersociety.org.uk/index.php/files-emporium-home) from whom you can buy individual drawings (which can be downloaded as PDFs - which saves time and postage costs to the USA).  They also have scanned copies of the series of articles that ran in the Locomotive Magazine over a hundred years ago, which included many of the fine drawings prepared by HT Buckle at Stratford - available as individual PDF files, or as a collection on DVD.  These resources are available to members and non-members alike - although I would certainly recommend membership as it gives access to the society's own journal (historical issues available to members on DVD), which includes much about locomotive history.

 

If you want books, "Locomotives of the Great Eastern Railway" by C. Langley Aldrich is still widely available second-hand (having been through numerous editions), and there is a book of locomotive drawings by Mike Sharman (Oakwood - these seem little more than copies of Buckle's side elevations - but I don't have a copy to hand).  There were also monographs by Peter Proud published by the RCTS covering the Claud Hamilton class and Great Eastern 0-6-0Ts - no drawings and information presented in the style of the "green book" Locomotives of the LNER series, and of course the book on the 0-4-4Ts by my late friend, Geoff Pember, as mentioned by Nick Holliday.

 

I can't really help much with the North British Railway.

 

The North British Study Group have some publications that may be of interest - individual line drawings and a wire-bound volume.

Worth checking out indeed. If they accept paypal I'll be in great company thats one major reason I haven't got the plans I mentioned above from the Colonel Stephenson Society. They only accept international money orders made out for GBP and no place near me sells any with the option of British pounds. Which to me is the dumbest thing I know of the US and the UK trade all the time you'd think we'd have a easier time importing considering how close our nations have been in the past and hopefully the future. Anyway enough of that thank you very much for the info I'll be sure to pay these two a visit soon.

 

Don't dismiss the Russell book, even though it appears expensive, it is a massive book. 382 pages, probably as many drawings and photographs. It's original retail price was £34.99, so the current prices on Abebooks represent a bargain, especially the book club edition I saw, as there is no difference between the two editions. The main problem is that at nearly four pounds in weight, the postage to America could be considerable.

Oh no I'm not dismissing it and now I know why it's so expensive. I sadly only have so much I can spend this go around and I want to have a even amount of presents this year. I've already bought my first one now I need three good books and I've got my eye on two so you can understand I'm trying to find my third one. I'll definetly get that book next chance I get and no mistake. Just not this time around.

 

Wow thats a hefty book indeed. About the size of this other book with some lovely images of the Rev. Teddy Boston's layout I own. Massive but worth the money especially as it is a book I used to check out of my local library as a kid I had to have a copy when I saw it on Amazon.

[EddieB]

Worth checking out indeed. If they accept paypal I'll be in great company thats one major reason I haven't got the plans I mentioned above from the Colonel Stephenson Society. They only accept international money orders made out for GBP and no place near me sells any with the option of British pounds. Which to me is the dumbest thing I know of the US and the UK trade all the time you'd think we'd have a easier time importing considering how close our nations have been in the past and hopefully the future. Anyway enough of that thank you very much for the info I'll be sure to pay these two a visit soon.

I don't know about the North British Study Group, but the Great Eastern Railway Society do accept Paypal.  I'm biased (having been a member since 1972 - when I was probably the youngest member), but I think they are the original and leading pre-grouping railway society of their kind, having later achieved charitable status and led the pack in terms of resources, on-line sales and ordering.  It's heartening to see so many other pre-grouping companies now have their groups of dedicated hobbyists and historians.

 

It's still amazing that there are still these barriers to currency exchange - I used to have all kinds of problems with subscriptions to US magazines in the days before credit cards became more commonplace (or had a surcharge added).  Of course we Europeans have something called the "single market" - different prices for goods in different countries using the same currency.

 

I think you're getting the Stephenson Loco Society mixed up with Colonel Stephens!

 

PS Happy birthday!

[Branwell]

For the NBR have a look at http://www.nbrstudygroup.co.uk/sales/sales.htm

 

There's also NBR Locomotives - A Design Survey by G.W.M. Sewell - but good luck finding a copy, out of print and very hard to find.

[844fan]

Hey everyone I was able to purchase my books and thanks to your advice I think I got a good set this go and for my next order. Sadly one book the one on Doncaster was unavailable due to a seller not taking my father's debit card properly so I will need to wait on it. But on good authority from a friend who owned a copy of it I went and got the O.S.Nock book mentioned above as he said this particular book is indeed one of Mr. Nock's modeler friendly books. I also purchased a SMR light railway book on the railway that Gazelle ran on back in the day which is great as maybe I'll get some photos of her small trains she pulled for her maintenance trains.

 

Welp I will see you all around and if you have other titles I should look out for in the future feel free to keep me posted.