Old films I've never seen

[bertiedog]

https://youtu.be/cT9-UquVvHE

 

Western Approaches, 1944. on youtube, made by The Crown Film Unit

 

Removed from youtube

Edited May 28, 2017 by bertiedog

[Guius]

Another war time film I very much like is 'San Demertio London' 1943, the story based on actual events is centred around the attack of a petrol tanker whilst crossing the Atlantic in convoy. The ship was first abandoned and subsequently re-boarded by a section of the crew who jury rig the blazing vessel and get the cargo and ship back to a British port, without assistance as proves important in the later story line

The personae dramatis are the usual mixture of stalwarts.

Thoroughly recommended.
Best

Guy
 

[Bon Accord]

Another war time film I very much like is 'San Demertio London' 1943, the story based on actual events is centred around the attack of a petrol tanker whilst crossing the Atlantic in convoy. The ship was first abandoned and subsequently re-boarded by a section of the crew who jury rig the blazing vessel and get the cargo and ship back to a British port, without assistance as proves important in the later story line

The personae dramatis are the usual mixture of stalwarts.

Thoroughly recommended.

Best

Guy

 

 

One ship that is missing from what is an excellent film was the Canadian-Pacific cargo ship BEAVERFORD.

After JERVIS BAY had suicidally taken on the German cruiser and thus gave the convoy time to scatter, the raider then turned her attention to the other merchant ships in the convoy. BEAVERFORD and the Brocklebank Line ship MAIDAN made smoke whilst the former opened fire on the ADMIRAL SCHEER. The German ship fired a full salvo into MAIDAN and detonated her cargo of ammunition, witnesses reported she disappeared instantly in an enormous fireball (all 90 crew lost). BEAVERFORD then duelled with ADMIRAL SCHEER for 5 hours, darting in and out of the smoke playing "hit and run" and thus holding the raider's attention throughout thereby saving countless other vessels from attack and sinking; an 11 inch heavy cruiser against a near helpless cargo ship armed with only a 4 inch "sub chaser" gun on the poop. Inevitably after many serious hits and damage she was sunk, not by gunfire but by a torpedo from the German ship which detonated BEAVERFORD's own cargo of ammunition killing her crew of 77 instantly. Witness reports state she simply disappeared in a cloud of black smoke and flame.

Unlike JERVIS BAY or SAN DEMETRIO there were no survivors, no medals and no media or popular recognition.

A very good friend of mine (also MN) is the grandson of a JERVIS BAY survivor and I met the old man some years back - he enjoyed a long life and saw in the millennium and I remember that on his living room wall was a faded and damaged photograph of himself and some shipmates in JERVIS BAY taken just before she set out on her final voyage.

[Guius]

I think the word I'm looking for is 'synchronicity'. I live in Barrow-in-Furness, the shipbuilding town in the top north west corner of Lancashire (as was) were the S.S. Jervis Bay was built  . The memory of bravery of S.S. Jervis Bay, captain and  crew are still held in high regard by the people of Barrow. If I remember rightly Ludovic Kennedy's father was also killed in the same action you recount. You are right Bon Accord, this would have made a cracking film! Now all we have to do is come up with a cast list.
Regards

Guy
 

[Pacific231G]

Another war time film I very much like is 'San Demertio London' 1943, the story based on actual events is centred around the attack of a petrol tanker whilst crossing the Atlantic in convoy. The ship was first abandoned and subsequently re-boarded by a section of the crew who jury rig the blazing vessel and get the cargo and ship back to a British port, without assistance as proves important in the later story line

The personae dramatis are the usual mixture of stalwarts.

Thoroughly recommended.

Best

Guy

 

There is an interesting contrast between British war films made during the war which tended to focus on the ordinary tommies, sailors and even civilians and those made in the 1950s and later in which the main protagonists were generally officers. It's a subtle difference and by no means universal but it's quite noticeable. San Demetrio London was a good example of the former - and an excellent film which doesn't get shown very often- whereas films like Sink the Bismark were definitely in the latter camp.  

[jjb1970]

The problem with making a film about the HX34 battle is it'd be quite expensive to make. Modern CGI techniques could reproduce the ships quite convicingly but you'd still need to do some expensive filming to make it convincing. In the 50's and 60's there were still enough classic ships that you could probably get something close enough to be convincing for most audiences other than merchant seafarers and ship enthusiasts who'd recognise the differences. A modern merchant vessel has about as much in common with a ship of the WW2 era as a Class 800 train does with the Flying Scotsman. And then you'd be sure to get lots of comments of the "why-oh-why did the master of the Jervis Bay have the wrong buttons on his reefer jacket" kind.

[locomad]

Another never seen film I watched recently was "Interrupted journey" 1949, Richard Todd, based on a railway theme about a person who pulls the communication cord and train of events which happens after brilliant suspense which keeps your attention right to the end.

[bertiedog]

Another never seen film I watched recently was "Interrupted journey" 1949, Richard Todd, based on a railway theme about a person who pulls the communication cord and train of events which happens after brilliant suspense which keeps your attention right to the end.

It's on you tube at the moment..........don't miss the ending!!

[Guius]

Another never seen film I watched recently was "Interrupted journey" 1949, Richard Todd, based on a railway theme about a person who pulls the communication cord and train of events which happens after brilliant suspense which keeps your attention right to the end.

No, never seen this one either. Thanks, that's this evenings entertainment sorted out.

Guy

[bertiedog]

There's been an avalanche of British films that were neglected by the makers recently on Youtube, many contain short train scenes etc. Some may be removed to satisfy copyright issues, although it is legally clear than old Hollywood is Public Domain, except for music, British films of the pre ww2 tend to be orphan films, where the company does not exist any more and rights have collapsed. Obviously certain films will remain away from Public Domain listing for a good few years yet.

 

Regrettably the worst aspect is missing films, some vanished pre war, but occasionally they turn up, like the Ghost Train with Jack Hulbert, but still a reel short, but sound complete. Several Max Miller films went missing, a the BFI runs a regular plea for any old films to be examined and handed in to them. Some actors and projectionist's kept copies, usually worn discarded Cinema copies.

 

Even the film collectors and investigators make mistakes and for years a film in a store from a projectionist in Belgium was not looked at because the cans were clearly marked "Unknown" in French.......When finally checked out the cans indeed did contain "Unknown", the famous missing Lon Chaney silent film drama with Joan Crawford, and it's incredible final scenes, known only as still pictures till the discovery.

 

And after a 60 year search the Frank Capra Film "Lost Horizon" has finally been reconstructed from dozens of partial copies, and now has undergone Digital Restoration to completely clean up the film. How Hollywood lost a cinema classic blockbuster that won Oscars can never be fully explained.

So films you have never seen may be down to the Industry itself.........

Stephen.

Edited May 2, 2017 by bertiedog

[brianusa]

TCM in the US has been running some quite old British films recently.  Sadly not very often.

 

Brian.

[bertiedog]

TCM in the US has been running some quite old British films recently.  Sadly not very often.

 

Brian.

But TCM have an absolute UK ban on viewing the TCM Channel in the UK and the TCM " brand" channel here on Sky and Cable is run by a German Newspaper group, and has ZERO US TCM content. It also allows adverts etc. They show little B/W and no shorts, and pre -war films are rare. No introductions, no host, nothing that can in anyway compare the US Channel..........total rubbish.

To show what world Turner lives in, he claimed languages caused the problem, they could not supply the programs from the US due to this........does he live on another planet, we speak English, as he does. Or basically he cannot make money in the UK at a rate he wants.

Rather obviously shows Turners indifferent attitude to the UK viewers.

[jetmorgan]

This past weekend on Talking Pictures channel Sons of the Sea...supposedly an espionage thriller filmed in 1939 in colour (no not colourized) Not a good film, no real suspense, thrills or drama but some nice views of Churston for Brixham station in 1939 in colour. 

[brianusa]

I thought the whole idea of TCM was the lack of ads. The other so called movie channels succumbed to advertising and are therefor useless.

 

Brian.

[locomad]

Returning to this thread, good weather long evening reduces film watching time, nor have a found any decent films worth mentioning however came across one very interesting "A Man Within" 1947 Richard Attenborough, Michael Redgrave, never been on TV, it was a poor copy but worth watching, would like to watch again if I find a good quality copy

[Ohmisterporter]

I think the word I'm looking for is 'synchronicity'. I live in Barrow-in-Furness, the shipbuilding town in the top north west corner of Lancashire (as was) were the S.S. Jervis Bay was built  . The memory of bravery of S.S. Jervis Bay, captain and  crew are still held in high regard by the people of Barrow. If I remember rightly Ludovic Kennedy's father was also killed in the same action you recount. You are right Bon Accord, this would have made a cracking film! Now all we have to do is come up with a cast list.

Regards

Guy

 

 

Ludovic Kennedy's father was captain of HMS Rawalpidi when she was sunk by Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. There are great stories just waiting to be filmed, the difficulty is shoehorning in the American superstar in the leading role.

[Guius]

The Rawalpindi would then have to be the USS Rawalpindi I suppose. Probably apocryphal but the story of the retitling of the film 'The Madness of King George III' for the American audience to read simply 'The Madness of King George' on account of potential viewers not wanting to watch the last film in a trilogy they hadn't seen the first two of springs to mind.

 

Best

 

Guy

[bertiedog]

This past weekend on Talking Pictures channel Sons of the Sea...supposedly an espionage thriller filmed in 1939 in colour (no not colourized) Not a good film, no real suspense, thrills or drama but some nice views of Churston for Brixham station in 1939 in colour. 

The film is totally unique, the only example of a non Technicolor pre-war colour film shot in the UK. UFA in Germany were using AGFA 11 and UFA 3, but the only other viable colour process was made by the British Dufay Company (yes, they later made Trix Model Railway equipment).

 

Dufay was a colour positive process that used completely ordinary cameras to shot colour. It was black and white film with millions of grooves in it filed with sensitised dyed starch grains that responded to colour once developed. It had great potential as it was cheaper than Technicolor, but had taken 8 years to iron out problems with making the film in quantity. They made 8mm film from 1935, 16mm from 1936, and 35mm cinema from 1934, but it had problems till 1938. The Sons of the Sea was the only film to use it, as the war stopped all work on the film, and Kodak and Agfa won out after the war on colour film. Dufay continued in one field, of colour shots on 8x10 film for fashion plates, but even that work vanished. Dufay was liked for fashion work and flower photography as the colours were totally accurate. Stills colour film and colour transparencies were made throughout the 1930's by Dufay, it was the cinema film that eluded them till the Sons of the Sea film.

During the war the factory was turned over to making the aerial reconnaissance films used by the Mosquito and Spitfire camera planes, but there was no money left at the end of the war to return the Dufay film to commercial production. The machinery used to make the film was believed to be the most accurate machinery ever built, as it's tolerances were measured in microns, not thou's! The film had to be perfect in flatness, thickness and have the grooves accurate to 10 microns spacing. If they were thicker they would show on the screen!

Regrettably the Government refused to pay for the restoration after the war work, and the factory closed and turned to making plastic items like lampshades, then got the contract to make Trix Trains.

 

Stephen

[locomad]

Bertiedog, very interesting that last article on "Sons of the sea" again a good film, interesting the connection​ with Trix.

 

Last night I watched "Trunk crime" 1939, an early boulting brothers production it's only 50 mins but kept the intense thoughout the film, good ending too.

 

Some of these films are only available free for 48 hours so it's fun just to see what is available

[Pacific231G]

The Rawalpindi would then have to be the USS Rawalpindi I suppose. Probably apocryphal but the story of the retitling of the film 'The Madness of King George III' for the American audience to read simply 'The Madness of King George' on account of potential viewers not wanting to watch the last film in a trilogy they hadn't seen the first two of springs to mind.

 

Best

 

Guy

 

Ludovic Kennedy's father was captain of HMS Rawalpidi when she was sunk by Scharnhorst and Gneisenau. There are great stories just waiting to be filmed, the difficulty is shoehorning in the American superstar in the leading role.

The traditional way round that was to make the leading character Canadian which would be fairly credible in most branches. Most Americans would probably not spot the difference from the version of English actually spoken by the American star. The American belief that they won WW2 all on their own is annoying but of course we suffer from the delusion that "Britain fought alone" between the fall of France and Pearl Harbor. That is pretty insulting to Canada, Australia, New Zealand and many others and particularly to the two and a half million Indians who fought with us in the largest volunteer army in history.  

[locomad]

Nice weather put a bit of a stop on film watching hence why I don't like yearly subscription as for about 6 months I'am unlikely to watch stuff.

 

Couple of quite good ones never seen before "Four sides triangle" 1953 really good hammer film, not so much a horror as more what if, brilliant young graduate who can copy anything from matter.

 

The other is "Devils Pass" 1957 set in a small seaside fishing harbour it's only 49 minutes long just shows what has changed, sailing scenes are quite good

[pete_mcfarlane]

A rather interesting article on film preservation: https://trailersfromhell.com/rescuing-the-runes-the-almost-lost-original-long-cut-of-night-of-the-demon/

[bertiedog]

A rather interesting article on film preservation: https://trailersfromhell.com/rescuing-the-runes-the-almost-lost-original-long-cut-of-night-of-the-demon/

Thank's for the reference to the article, this is a very familiar area, as i collected a few films myself, and still do via the net these days.

The Night of the Demon was the very first horror film I saw as a child in the form of a movie trailer during a U feature program, (it should not have been shown under Board rules). It was scary even in the trailer, showing the chase of Dana Andrews through the woods by the Demon. 

That I found it scary was not a surprise as few years before I had been scared rigid by Margaret Hamilton as the Wicked Witch in Wizard of OZ ............ I did not like Horror Films at all, or at least the idea of them, and of course in the UK Horror was strictly for Adults only, no children ever saw Dracula or Frankenstein, and it was only in the late 60's that the BBC began to show horror films late at night on BBC2.

 

I began to see more horror long before that and the frights vanished generally, but Night of the Demon was still a powerful film, and the UK prints in the BFI are fully complete versions. My biggest complaint about the whole film is that French director Jacques Tournier decided to show the monster so early in the film, it took away the impact of the final scenes somewhat, (a Railway setting of course).

 

The whole film was based on an MR James Ghost Story, the Casting of the Runes, expanding the famous short story to the full blown film version.

 

I am often surprised that US writers on films are surprised to find duel Titles and shortened versions of British films in the Archives in the States. It was the big Companies fault, they cut scenes left right and centre that they thought Americans would never understand, or had too many British aspects in it. All UK production was treated as B feature material, to return money they had to go out with a US film to ensure people would watch them, so they got brutally edited.

 

Of course some UK full length stuff did get shown, but it had to be US financed right from the start in case it proved risky. Part of what turned the tide was Hammer entering into Horror films, it re-taught Hollywood how to make good Horror films.

 

Stephen

[bertiedog]

Couple of quite good ones never seen before "Four sides triangle" 1953 really good hammer film, not so much a horror as more what if, brilliant young graduate who can copy anything from matter.

 

 

Hammer had not quite got into it's stride then, they were based on making films for Radio or TV series, like PC 49 or Dick Barton etc., few originals. X the Unknown was a Quatermass clone, but Four Sided Triangle was original. But in the end copies still turned out to be the studios speciality, from Fu Manchu to Dracula, via the Mummy, they did the lot! and usually in colour.

 

You knew it was a Hammer production as soon as Michael Ripper appeared on the scene!!

 

 

[bertiedog]

On Horror films in the UK, I have always thought that there was one British film that should have had the comedy removed from it, and would have made a super little Horror film, and that was Carry on Screaming, which is hilarious anyway, but if the right cast had been added, Peter Cushing in Kenneth Williams part, Christopher Lee as the Butler, Oliver Reed as Oddjob the monster, Michael Ripper as Dan the lavatory Man, leaving Harry H Corbett and Fenella Fielding in their parts, adding a more serious Hammer script and music.....it would have made a darn good horror tale.......as it is is fine enough though!!!!