BobM Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Hi Guys... I hope that this isn't repeating a topic already in existence.....but I have heard that some DCC locos are able to run on a DC layout and produce some sound is this correct? I am 'old money' layout building a DC layout, but are DCC ready able to operate on DC, have heard that DCC fitted don't....advice please? Regards as always to all..... Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauliebanger Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Hi Guys... I hope that this isn't repeating a topic already in existence.....but I have heard that some DCC locos are able to run on a DC layout and produce some sound is this correct? I am 'old money' layout building a DC layout, but are DCC ready able to operate on DC, have heard that DCC fitted don't....advice please? Regards as always to all..... Bob Bob, Many DCC decoders will operate on DC provided they are set to do so (This is done with CV29 Bit 2, though I appreciate this will probably mean nothing to you, it illustrates that it is just a simple and commonplace setting). The more fully featured decoders will also operate BEMF regulation and /or Inertia and Momentum settings on DC as they would on DCC, ZIMO for example will do both, there may be others available. ZIMO decoders will also allow the operation of Stay Alive capacitors on DC. Lenz and ESU specifically state that their Stay Alive packs will no operate on DC. I don't know the position with other brands. A DCC ready model is an analogue model with some provision for a decoder to be fitted if required. Obviously, these will operate on DC out of the box. Most R-T-R 'DCC Fitted' models will be supplied with CV29,Bit2 active, that is,already set up to operate on DC or DCC (The decoder detects the type of power supply and reacts accordingly, nothing special for the user to do). The above also applies to sound decoders, but with the fairly obvious addition. Since DCC controllers have access up to 29 function buttons, they are able to access a lot more of the decoder functions and sounds than a DC controller, so the sounds you will get on DC will be limited. Worth noting that Hornby TTS (sound) decoders will operate the motor on DC but will only produce sound on DCC. One thing you should not do is to operate a DC loco on DCC as the alternating current will eventually ruin the motor, but this is not the scenario you are asking about. If you are just starting your layout and you are serious about sound locos, now would be a good time to think about all the advantages of DCC. Kind regards, Paul Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 23, 2017 Author Share Posted February 23, 2017 Bob, Many DCC decoders will operate on DC provided they are set to do so (This is done with CV29 Bit 2, though I appreciate this will probably mean nothing to you, it illustrates that it is just a simple and commonplace setting). The more fully featured decoders will also operate BEMF regulation and /or Inertia and Momentum settings on DC as they would on DCC, ZIMO for example will do both, there may be others available. ZIMO decoders will also allow the operation of Stay Alive capacitors on DC. Lenz and ESU specifically state that their Stay Alive packs will no operate on DC. I don't know the position with other brands. A DCC ready model is an analogue model with some provision for a decoder to be fitted if required. Obviously, these will operate on DC out of the box. Most R-T-R 'DCC Fitted' models will be supplied with CV29,Bit2 active, that is,already set up to operate on DC or DCC (The decoder detects the type of power supply and reacts accordingly, nothing special for the user to do). The above also applies to sound decoders, but with the fairly obvious addition. Since DCC controllers have access up to 29 function buttons, they are able to access a lot more of the decoder functions and sounds than a DC controller, so the sounds you will get on DC will be limited. Worth noting that Hornby TTS (sound) decoders will operate the motor on DC but will only produce sound on DCC. One thing you should not do is to operate a DC loco on DCC as the alternating current will eventually ruin the motor, but this is not the scenario you are asking about. If you are just starting your layout and you are serious about sound locos, now would be a good time to think about all the advantages of DCC. Kind regards, Paul Cheers for the info Paul.....much appreciated will digest these very helpful comments...... Regards Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
RMweb Gold D9020 Nimbus Posted February 24, 2017 RMweb Gold Share Posted February 24, 2017 At least some sound-fitted locos will produce sound on DCC: you would need to check for the individual model. However, there are some things to be aware of. Where this is possible, you will have to advance thr controller a fair amount before the sound starts—typically you need at least 6V for this. As a consequence, the loco may not reach its normal top speed (but this may of course not matter to you). There is also the issue of changing direction—if you do this in the normal way, the sound will stop. On some models at least, you can avoid this by reducing the voltage just sufficiently for the loco to stop, then flicking the direction switch (this isn't possible if your controller is a centre-off type). So—you *can* get it to work in some cases at least, but if you want to run sound fitted locos it's worth investigating changing over to DCC. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete the Elaner Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I don't see any negatives with running a DCC sound loco on DC, but you may find that when you have it, you want to do more with it: Leave the loco parked with its lights on. Play horns. Control the compressor & roof fans. Most sound projects include things like buffer clash, flange squeal. My favourite is to leave the loco sitting there shut down with its Spirax valves popping. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobM Posted February 24, 2017 Author Share Posted February 24, 2017 I do so appreciate the advice and comments on this topic...... I am 'currently' ( no pun intended there ).....building a DC layout (Cambrian Street thread on here), returning to layout building after a 40 year gap, back then as a 'little bubber' of 10 - 15 years only really concentrating on the scenery and building jobs, my now both late uncle and brother doing the technical stuff......so only going DC at the moment to obtain the necessary experience of wiring, soldering and switches prior to what hopefully will be a longer term 'cunning plan'...... This plan hopefully entails surviving long enough to reach retirement in around 10 years time, sooner if possible but who knows, moving out to the Aberystwyth area, where if there isn't already one in existence, start up a modelling group, to build a 00 or even 0 gauge recreation of 1950's to 1960's Aberystwyth station, including its engine shed and link through to Carmarthen....... I just love the images of Aberystwth station as it was in that period and its layout as it epitomises (to me) a terminus station as it should look, also its engine shed, coaling stage, goods and lack of turntable (using a triangle to turn locos) just makes me go all 'gooey' So all the advice here is for the future,,,I hope ! Regards Bob Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Sidelines Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Hello Bob I dare say a search of RMweb might point you in the direction of my Blog where there are four recent posts covering the running on analogue DC of Bachmann locomotives fitted with LokSound 4 decoders (Patriot, Class 40, Class 27, and Deltic). LokSound chips work fine with analogue DC, Hornby TTS drive the locomotive but will not produce sound on DC. There are also a number of videos on YouTube - the latest being a video of a Hornby King refitted with a LokSound Micro. This uses a sound project from Coastal DC and I have had to change analogue settings to get it to run properly on my layout. I have purchased a SPROG and have a 'programming track' on the dining table to make adjustments to CVs. Some locomotives work well straight out of the box, others need minor tweaks depending on the controllers you are using. http://youtu.be/j9pOqDmSJII http://youtu.be/NMl-Foyx38Y Regards Ray Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sp1 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Hello Bob I dare say a search of RMweb might point you in the direction of my Blog where there are four recent posts covering the running on analogue DC of Bachmann locomotives fitted with LokSound 4 decoders (Patriot, Class 40, Class 27, and Deltic). LokSound chips work fine with analogue DC, Hornby TTS drive the locomotive but will not produce sound on DC. There are also a number of videos on YouTube - the latest being a video of a Hornby King refitted with a LokSound Micro. This uses a sound project from Coastal DC and I have had to change analogue settings to get it to run properly on my layout. I have purchased a SPROG and have a 'programming track' on the dining table to make adjustments to CVs. Some locomotives work well straight out of the box, others need minor tweaks depending on the controllers you are using. http://youtu.be/j9pOqDmSJII http://youtu.be/NMl-Foyx38Y Regards Ray Interesting videos, but that Hornby green on the King.......it still hurts my eyes. However, now that they are available at under £90 I might be tempted to try a repaint. Interestingly, I have a BR Blue King ( the TTS one) as I also wanted a BR one (and memories of a blue 1980s model) which won't run on DC - but got hold of a DCC controller a couple of weeks ago and was up until 1am playing with it! Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelly Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 You could plan the wiring to allow changing to DCC later. Others have set up switches to allow the needed constant feed to all sections DCC uses (effectively all sections switched on at once). A bit more involved than that of course, but should be doable. Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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