Female drivers

[rockershovel]

Re #50, up to a point.... you'll never convince anyone who has been "passed over" or held back in the interests of "positive discrimination" that HE should be "the one". You're much better off letting it be someone else...

 

The late 80s were a very difficult time in the oilfield, lots of people had lost their jobs, everyone had lost work and earnings, and along came the soft hands, clean suits and shiny bright smiles from HR saying, in effect, "we are going to add to your problems, and you cannot benefit under any circumstances, by letting people in who wouldn't otherwise get in". Just what you need, really...

 

The Norwegians got it right, from the outset. The British sector was a pretty wild place, lots of people recruited from declining rust-belt industries like shipbuilding and steel, Texan lunatics behaving (in some cases) as though they were still in the Third World, brutal physical work, nil job security and absolutely atrocious conditions in many respects. The Nogs built modern, albeit basic accommodation; unionised labour, strong safety, and most of all, people were told, very firmly, that that sort of thing wouldn't be tolerated. The Norwegians, being Scandinavian, were quite a long way down the road already, but nobody was allowed in who wasn't demonstrably competent. It's much easier to accept a woman boss who DOES know her job, and didn't displace the previous incumbent for reasons beyond his control.

 

The thing about being in that sort of environment, is that you have to trust people to do their jobs. Get THAT right, as the Nogs did, and the rest tends to follow.

 

It's all ancient history now, and as usual the "old guard" have faded away, as old soldiers mostly do. I (mostly) enjoyed it hugely, certainly made money, and wouldn't have missed it for the world. But would I want to go back?

 

Nope....

[D854_Tiger]

 

I worked in a traditionally male dominated industry when it opened up to female entrants. Actually there is a long history of female seafarers and there was nothing new about females at sea but I think it is fair to say that the late 80’s and 90’s saw a huge change with women going from being an unusual exception to a position now where women at sea are still a small minority but one which is not seen as being just a normal part of life at sea with no arguments about their suitability to be there. I found that the initial transition could be quite disagreeable. Many people resented the perceived preferential treatment given to early female entrants, I thought (and still think) that some “priming of the pump” is justified to get the ball rolling in promoting diversity until positive measures are no longer needed but I also understand why it breeds resentment. There was a lot of adjustments needed in social attitudes (most of which I considered to be positive such as reducing foul language and loutish behaviour) which again was resented by many. There was a lot of sexism and derogatory comments in the transition I found. On the flip side I did encounter women who had a big chip on their shoulder and who went looking for sexism, as with any other form of discrimination if you look hard enough then you’ll find it. That is certainly not intended to justify sexism or any other -ism but it does breed resentment when people are perceived to be resorting to accusations of sexism or equivalent to explain away the fact that they themselves have been unable to integrate with the crew and actually sets equality back by providing evidence in support of those who objected to having women on-board. I once offered to carry a large case up the gangway when a person was struggling, not because she was a woman but because she was struggling and I was in a position to help as I returned to the ship from a walk ashore and got a sour tempered lecture about how she didn’t need a man to do anything for her which kind of set the tone for her time on-board. I accept there is a bit of a chicken and egg situation there (was she chip-ish because she’d experienced sexism, or had she felt perceived sexism because of her own attitude to others around her? Probably a combination of both) By the time I left the sea women on-board were just normal and only a fool would consider gender to be of any relevance to somebody’s suitability to be at sea. A transition is seldom without bumps regardless of the nature of the transition and I think that the diversification of the workplace has been positive and should be supported.

 

 

 

There were more than a few engineering apprenticeships that involved one or two short placements on what were traditionally female production lines and some of those rather naive innocent seventeen year old lads still have the curly hair to prove it.

[62613]

 

I worked in a traditionally male dominated industry when it opened up to female entrants. Actually there is a long history of female seafarers and there was nothing new about females at sea but I think it is fair to say that the late 80’s and 90’s saw a huge change with women going from being an unusual exception to a position now where women at sea are still a small minority but one which is now seen as being just a normal part of life at sea with no arguments about their suitability to be there. I found that the initial transition could be quite disagreeable. Many people resented the perceived preferential treatment given to early female entrants, I thought (and still think) that some “priming of the pump” is justified to get the ball rolling in promoting diversity until positive measures are no longer needed but I also understand why it breeds resentment. There was a lot of adjustments needed in social attitudes (most of which I considered to be positive such as reducing foul language and loutish behaviour) which again was resented by many. There was a lot of sexism and derogatory comments in the transition I found. On the flip side I did encounter women who had a big chip on their shoulder and who went looking for sexism, as with any other form of discrimination if you look hard enough then you’ll find it. That is certainly not intended to justify sexism or any other -ism but it does breed resentment when people are perceived to be resorting to accusations of sexism or equivalent to explain away the fact that they themselves have been unable to integrate with the crew and actually sets equality back by providing evidence in support of those who objected to having women on-board. I once offered to carry a large case up the gangway when a person was struggling, not because she was a woman but because she was struggling and I was in a position to help as I returned to the ship from a walk ashore and got a sour tempered lecture about how she didn’t need a man to do anything for her which kind of set the tone for her time on-board. I accept there is a bit of a chicken and egg situation there (was she chip-ish because she’d experienced sexism, or had she felt perceived sexism because of her own attitude to others around her? Probably a combination of both) By the time I left the sea women on-board were just normal and only a fool would consider gender to be of any relevance to somebody’s suitability to be at sea. A transition is seldom without bumps regardless of the nature of the transition and I think that the diversification of the workplace has been positive and should be supported.

 

BPTC introduced female Navigating cadets in 1972; in 1974 I sailed on my second trip with 2 of them, aboard the ss British Comet. You're right about the change in attitudes, but officres' wives had been allowed to accompany them for a while before that, so things had already begun to change.

[rockershovel]

Warrant Officers - particularly Gunners, for some reason - had a long tradition of taking their wives on board Men-o-War, where they carried out certain functions related to nursing and housekeeping. Officers of that time, had various "nautical customs" involving taking wives (and other females) to sea.

 

Stewards and housekeeping staff on drilling and production rigs and platforms were often female, from quite an early stage.

 

That said, you have to remember that a life at sea will inevitably take you to places where Western liberal ideas have no currency. I've been on jobs in places where female personnel can't go ashore, and worked with clients and operators who regarded them as simply unacceptable. It's just how it is.

[w124bob]

How pleased she is to be millennial? What is that? Was she in a really bad mood when she said this and does it happen often?

Getting back to the question, well I don't really know. Were there women guards before drivers.

One reason why there may not have been drivers is that there would have been few women that had the stamina to be firemen in the days of steam, I know there are a few in preservation but in steam days I would have thought the average shift entailed shovelling a bit more coal than your average preservation line.

Also the atmosphere on the railway with filthy mess rooms and foul language would put most girls off. Remember until 88 the oldest you could start on the footplate was 24

I was driving by age 22 at Orpington and that was in 1984, started as a 2nd man at Coalville in July 1978 straight from school.

[w124bob]

The Saltley driver mentioned now drives for XC, I couldn't tell you when she started but it's 30+years ago.

[russ p]

I was made a driver at 21 in July 88 at Thornaby but i was 22 when i passed out. The good thing was i got all my MP12 on drivers money and i also predated the traincrew concept